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WOW, Stanley Williams was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize SIX TIMES!!!

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:45 PM
Original message
WOW, Stanley Williams was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize SIX TIMES!!!
Edited on Thu Dec-08-05 02:57 PM by Walt Starr
All by the same guy, Philip Gasper, who chairs the philosophy and religion department at Notre Dame de Namur University in Belmont.

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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. I've avoided this topic from some time now...
...But I just broke it.

The Death Penalty should be abolished. Even for monsters like Williams. I'm sorry so many people believe him to be changed, or act like his crimes are meaningless.

But I do not believe in the DP, even in this case.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't give a shit
if that bastard wrote the BIBLE! He is still a CRIMINAL!!!
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Agreed
Just psoting to show how irrelevent the "Nobel Peace Prize Nominee" bullshit is.

Gasper even runs a pro-murderer blog:

http://traprockpeace.org/phil_gasper_blog/

Williams is a bad choice of people to use for anti-DP efforts.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. yeah...no kidding eh?
:hi:
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
25. One can be anti-DP and still not be a Tookie supporter...
you agree there is that difference, don't you?


Sid
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. ABSOLUTELY
And those who are anti-DP and don't support Williams have a lot of credibility with me.
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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. And you gotta love them Crips. I've never met a more peaceful
bunch.

But I still think he would do more good alive than dead
Just put him in solitary for life with nothing in his cell but his peaceful thoughts.
Not even a light.

Peace out, Tookster.
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indie_voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Not all who work with at-risk kids agree he is the savior
But others who have worked with at-risk youth question how relevant Williams is to a generation born long after he was condemned to death row. “I think he’s more of a symbol to the black middle class and to the liberal white celebrity classes ,” says Connie Rice, a civil-rights attorney in Los Angeles with the Advancement Project. “It doesn’t take away from the value of his work, but evaluating his pull on the streets is more difficult. These kids don’t pay attention to anyone who isn’t right in front of them.”


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10381516/site/newsweek/from/RSS/
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. I'm sorry, I don't see him as the US' Nelson Mandela.
I just don't...
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. He isn't
But I still believe the DP should be abolished.

It's just that it seems to me that he's being made into a hero when, well, I'm pretty sure he isn't.
But the fact remains the DP is, to me, not something that a civil society should do.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Just showing how easy it is to be a "Nobel Peace Prize Nominee"
:D
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Alfred Nobel invented TNT
And 6 billion Chinese don't give a shit.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. Relevant OP-ED piece.

Who doesn't have a Nobel Prize nomination?


By Eugene Volokh, Eugene Volokh is a professor of law at UCLA Law School.

MANY advocates of clemency for Stanley Tookie Williams note that he has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize and the Nobel Prize in literature for his anti-gang work, which includes writing children's books. How could a convicted murderer and co-founder of the Crips be nominated for such prizes?

According to Nobel Prize nominating rules, any "professor of social sciences, history, philosophy, law and theology" and any judge or national legislator in any country, among others, can nominate anyone for a Nobel Peace Prize. Past nominees include Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Benito Mussolini and Fidel Castro. Any "professor of literature of linguistics," among others, can nominate anyone for a Nobel Prize in literature.

Naturally, many nominees have real merit. But being nominated by one or a few of the hundreds of thousands of eligible nominators is little evidence of such merit. This is especially so when the nominee is a source of controversy, and when it may seem that nominating him may prevent his execution.

It would surely be helpful to readers if news stories mentioning Williams' nominations — or, for that matter, any Nobel peace or literature prize nominations — stressed how unselective the nomination process is.

We're used to prize nominations signifying relatively broad acclaim, as for an Oscar. When a nomination means nothing other than a recommendation from a professor (or even a few professors and a legislator), that should to be made clear.

Besides, a convicted murderer's nominations for Nobel prizes shed little light on the complex question of whether he is sincerely contrite, whether he has done good deeds and whether his life should be spared.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/commentary/la-op-tookienobel4dec04,0,5637705.story?coll=la-sunday-commentary
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. By the way...where's today's "12/8 URGENT--SAVE TOOKIE!" thread?
Did they give up?
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I think they are having a full day of silence
(for tookie of course), complete with fasting and a vow of silence.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I thought for sure the Tookie Groupies would be
all over this board today, as this is the day the defendant's lawyers are meeting with the Governor.
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Ladyhawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. God, those "debates" were a joke.
I'm on the fence as far as the DP is concerned, but painting Tookie as some kind of fucking hero was disingenous and it pissed me off. :grr: So much for the truth.
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deadmessengers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
12. I've heard that argument before
Shrub was nominated, too, as was Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin. And they actually GAVE the Nobel peace prize to Yasser Arafat, Shimon Peres and Yitzhak Rabin - hardly models of peace there. Being nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize means exactly fuck-all.

I am opposed to his execution solely because I am opposed to the death penalty under all circumstances. Tookie Williams is the worst form of scum, and has been responsible, through his founding of the Crips, for more deaths than Osama Bin Laden. He's been given ample opportunity to truly show repentance (by informing on those Crips still in the business of murder), and has refused. I've no sympathy for him, and I'm disappointed in those here who insist on sanctifying him.

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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
13. Just read this...
http://www.knowgangs.com/blog/cooleytogov.pdf



and tell me he doesnt deserve anything better than a one way trip to the gas chamber
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. Thank you for the link
What a piece of shit ..... Good old Tookie ...... what a sweetheart.

They have him buying the shotgun and ammunition used in all of the murders.

Everybody should read that link. The man is a stone cold killer.
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Even though they edited the autopsy/crime scene photos
they describe it in words in pretty gory detail, a decent imagination will give a good (horrible) picture.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. I think the death penalty should be abolished beacuse
it takes 10 time as much money by the time the execution happens compared
to life imprisonment but ..... if Tookie is guilty of 4 murders and he did start the
crips give him the needle. His story and his books will still help after he is worm food.

How many people are dead or in prison thanks to Mr. Williams?

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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. If capital punishment became much cheaper than life imprisonment
(through reform of the system) would you support it then?
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
31. I don't know
I had a good friend who was the victim of a shooting and wound up
brain dead in a coma .... she has since passed. I could kill the scum
who did that to such a gentle soul w/ my bare hands and feel less
guilt when the mouse traps kill a mouse in my house.

My problem w/ the DP is that the legal help the convicted get
tends to be bad and that it is the poor who get the penalty and
in many cases innocent people have been held on death row
for years until they were found innocent. We can not allow "mistakes"
in DP cases. However after reading the link that was posted above
Mr. Williams should die as long as we have the penalty.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. You do raise a good point about the
Edited on Thu Dec-08-05 03:30 PM by hiaasenrocks
financial aspect of this.

Were it up to me, I would handle it differently. Have the preliminary hearing, followed by the jury trial. If the defendant is convicted and sentenced to death, they enter an expedited appellate process consisting of two appeals in district courts and one review by the US Supreme Court. If the defendant loses both appeals and the USSC denies them as well, the execution would take place within 10 days. I would think this could all be done within two years at the most.
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Endangered Specie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. some other ideas:
while on death row, the inmate will be required at least a 40hour labor week, to pay in part for the expenses to taxpayers, refusal to work will mean no food, kinda like in the real world, (this isnt a bad idea for all inmates, if you ask me).


Also, part of the defendents belongings and financial assests should go directly to the victims families (like, say, proceeds from tookie books)
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Loonman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:24 PM
Response to Original message
17. It's cheaper to keep somebody in jail for life
Unless you Ceausescu them.
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hiaasenrocks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. That's why we need reform. See post #20. n/t
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RandomKoolzip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
23. Tookie Williams the worst possible choice to base an argument
around abolishing the death penalty. He's a scumbag.

I hate the DP, too. I think it ought to be abolished. But making Tookie Williams the poster boy for that campaign would be a heinous mistake.
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
24. Wow! but I still can't get excited about it
I am ambivalent anout the DP. I could live without the DP, but I just can't work up any sympathy for convicted killers. I know mistakes are made, but, that''s why I could live withiout the DP.
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-08-05 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
26. No clem for Carla Taye Fucker and no clemency for Tookie.


He is still protecting Crip criminals.
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