I Can't Take it Anymore!... - Democratic Underground

Peter Frank

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Fri Dec-09-05 05:53 AM
Original message

I Can't Take it Anymore!...

I remember when the death penalty was abolished here. I remember thinking that lawmakers got it right.

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Mutley

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Fri Dec-09-05 05:54 AM
Response to Original message

1. I remember when most liberals were against the DP.

I guess things have changed.

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annabanana

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Fri Dec-09-05 06:01 AM
Response to Reply #1

2. I think most still are....

There will always be some vengeful people who subscribe to the "eye for an eye" view of life, for whom offering the other cheek makes no sense whatsoever. Nothing will convince them that any subsequent personal growth has any value and there is no point arguing with them, so most here don't bother. My blood pressure keeps me from engaging.

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Mutley

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Fri Dec-09-05 06:16 AM
Response to Reply #2

4. That's certainly true.

And I've engaged a bit. The bloodlust I'm seeing from some DUers is astonishing, and sick. They're not just advocating Tookie Williams be put to death, they're celebrating it. :wow:

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Horse with no Name

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Sat Dec-10-05 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #1

8. I personally think it is more the Republicans

That converted to Democrats that are pro-death penalty.
It's that big tent thing we have going on.

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FreedomAngel82

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Sat Dec-10-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #8

11. I've always been against the death penalty

Even before I became politically involved and engaged etc. It's just always turned me off. If you're going to claim to be pro-life don't be a hypocrite about it in my opinion.

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malaise

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Fri Dec-09-05 06:05 AM
Response to Original message

3. I will never support

the death penalty. Civilized people do not kill.

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annabanana

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Fri Dec-09-05 06:23 AM
Response to Reply #3

5. not in my name

When the state kills, it does so in my name and I am not OK with that.

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lvx35

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Fri Dec-09-05 06:45 AM
Response to Reply #5

6. plus the state screws up...

I'm not philosophically against the death penalty if guilt is absolutly known, but the problem is is almost never is: having all those people aquitted by DNA evidence that were on death row should send chills down a responsible taxpayer's spine.

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Peter Frank

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Fri Dec-09-05 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #3

7. Exactly...

Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 11:33 PM by Peter Frank

on edit - fix link

A member posted in the Williams thread about "restorative justice." I googled it & got over a million hits -- http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22restorative+justice%22&btnG=Google+Search

Restorative justice is a philosophical approach to responding to crime aimed at repairing the harm caused by a criminal act and restoring the balance in the community affected by the crime.
www.gov.bc.ca/prem/popt/service_plans/srv_pln/pssg/appen_a.htm

Restorative justice is a theory of criminal justice that focuses on crime as an act against another individual or community rather than the state. The victim plays a major role in the process and receives some type of restitution from the offender.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restorative_justice

Yet, so many still enjoy reveling in vengeance thinly disguised as justice. Real justice repairs or at least mitigates wrongs. Vengeance only destroys, and only leaves a moral vacuum to comfort the wronged.

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Peter Frank

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Sat Dec-10-05 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #3

12. Indeed...

Death Penalty Outlawed

Andorra (1990)
Angola (1992)
Armenia (2003)
Australia (1984)
Austria (1950)
Azerbaijan (1998)
Belgium (1996)
Bermuda (1999)
Bhutan (2004)
Bosnia-Herzegovina (1997)
Bulgaria (1998)
Cambodia (1989)
Canada (1976)
Cape Verde (1981)
Colombia (1910)
Costa Rica (1877)
Côte d'Ivoire (2000)
Croatia (1990)
Cyprus (1983)
Czech Republic (1990)
Denmark (1933)
Djibouti (1995)
Dominican Republic (1966)
East Timor (1999)
Ecuador (1906)
Estonia (1998)
Finland (1949)
France (1981)
Georgia (1997)
Germany (1987)
Greece (1993)
Guinea-Bissau (1993)
Haiti (1987)
Honduras (1956)
Hungary (1990)
Iceland (1928)
Ireland (1990)
Italy (1947)
Kiribati (1979)
Liechtenstein (1987)
Lithuania (1998)
Luxembourg (1979)
Macedonia (1991)
Malta (1971)
Marshall Islands (1986)
Mauritius (1995)
Mexico (2005)
Micronesia (1986)
Moldova (1995)
Monaco (1962)
Mozambique (1990)
Namibia (1990)
Nepal (1990)
Netherlands (1870)
New Zealand (1961)
Nicaragua (1979)
Niue (n.a.)
Norway (1905)
Palau (n.a.)
Panama (1903)
Paraguay (1992)
Poland (1997)
Portugal (1867)
Romania (1989)
Samoa (2004)
San Marino (1848)
São Tomé and Príncipe (1990)
Senegal (2004)
Serbia and Montenegro (2002)
Seychelles (1993)
Slovak Republic (1990)
Slovenia (1989)
Solomon Islands (1966)
South Africa (1995)
Spain (1978)
Sweden (1921)
Switzerland (1942)
Turkey (2002)
Turkmenistan (1999)
Tuvalu (1978)
Ukraine (1999)
United Kingdom (1973)
Uruguay (1907)
Vanuatu (1980)
Vatican City (1969)
Venezuela (1863)

Death Penalty Outlawed for Ordinary Crimes

Albania (2000)
Argentina (1984)
Bolivia (1997)
Brazil (1979)
Chile (2001)
Cook Islands (n.a.)
El Salvador (1983)
Fiji (1979)
Israel (1954)
Latvia (1999)
Peru (1979)

De Facto Ban on Death Penalty

Algeria (1993)
Benin (1987)
Brunei Darussalam (1957)
Burkina Faso (1988)
Central African Republic (1981)
Congo (Republic) (1982)
Gambia (1981)
Grenada (1978)
Kenya (n.a.)
Madagascar (1958)
Maldives (1952)
Mali (1980)
Mauritania (1987)
Morocco (1993)
Myanmar (1993)
Nauru (1968)
Niger (1976)
Papua New Guinea (1950)
Russia (1999)
Sri Lanka (1976)
Suriname (1982)
Togo (n.a.)
Tonga (1982)
Tunisia (1990)

Death Penalty Permitted

Afghanistan
Antigua and Barbuda
Bahamas
Bahrain
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belize
Botswana
Burundi
Cameroon
Chad
China (People's Republic)
Comoros
Congo (Democratic Republic)
Cuba
Dominica
Egypt
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Ethiopia
Gabon
Ghana
Guatemala
Guinea
Guyana
India
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Korea, North
Korea, South
Kuwait
Kyrgyzstan
Laos
Lebanon
Lesotho
Liberia
Libya
Malawi
Malaysia
Mongolia
Nigeria
Oman
Pakistan
Palestinian Authority
Philippines
Qatar
Rwanda
St. Kitts and Nevis
St. Lucia
St. Vincent and the Grenadines
Saudi Arabia
Sierra Leone
Singapore
Somalia
Sudan
Swaziland
Syria
Taiwan
Tajikistan
Tanzania
Thailand
Trinidad and Tobago
Uganda
United Arab Emirates
United States
Uzbekistan
Vietnam
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe

Blue: Abolished for all crimes

Green: Abolished for crimes not committed in exceptional circumstances (such as crimes committed in time of war)

Orange: Abolished in practice

Red: Legal form of punishment

http://www.answers.com/topic/capital-punishment

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me b zola

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Sat Dec-10-05 12:15 AM
Response to Original message

9. obsession with "law & order", one of the signs of fascism

Why is it that other industrialized nations are far less brutal with people who break the law but yet have far less lawlessness? We are so culturally isolated that we (as a society) don't even recognize the irony.

I agree, I can't take it anymore. This is one of the non-progressive issues (bloodlust) I see on this progressive message board that makes me even more concerned for the future of this country.

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Walt Starr

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Sat Dec-10-05 12:16 AM
Response to Original message

10. Actually, it was the SCOTUS that abolished it

and that decision was overturned.

some state legislatures have removed it, but most states have some form of a DP.

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Peter Frank

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Sat Dec-10-05 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #10

13. Thanks for the correction...

The Supremes are in the business of interpreting the Constitution -- not making law (at least that's what our founding fathers intended).

With all pressure now brought to bear for RW activists to inhabit the court, the death penalty may become only one of many modern archaic re-institutions of ineffective (but machismo satisfying) dark age practices.

e g
...ala "The Graduate," ...new buzzword on investment -- "coat hangers"

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