So about this San Francisco police film "scandal"

I am just blown away that we have Reno 911, Mad TV, Saturday Night Live and Comedy Central spoofs that are absolutely no different in theme or material than those videos with the exception of production values, and yet these guys are getting vilified for mocking themselves by the same people who laugh at Reno 911 and MadTV. What the fuck?

I just can't believe this double standard - it's mind boggling.

Am I missing something in my thinking? The news shows the clip of a homeless person getting run over. It repeatedly does NOT show the aftermath with the homeless person sitting up and flipping off the police car. The news could equally make any of the other "mainstream" Comedy Central comedic efforts look equally anti-minority and bigoted, yet nobody is drawing the parallel that the POINT is that police know how they are perceived and these guys were having fun with that perception.

I'm not sorry to say that I support them and think it's pure bullshit and overreaction on the part of San Francisco, the chief of police, and the mayor be so intolerant . . . . and the national media!. . . . . to be in an uproar over it. There have got to be more worthy battles to mess one's panties over.

Bring it.

Reno 911 is a comedy show. These are REAL POLICE. This video shows a great deal of bigotry. These so called "professionals" should know better. You don't do things like this and then say "trust me". I can't believe that there are people on this board who defend this shit. :wtf:
:wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf::wtf:

Now the police officer defends his action? ...and again: :wtf:???

"protect and serve"? Doesn't sound like it to me. If the SF police want my trust back
they better fire the SOB.

I do NOT trust the police with taser guns, that's for sure now.

Now then.

What was your point? You certainly didn't address anything I said. Please explain your assertion in greater detail.

I made what I believe are valid points. I'm willing to change my point of view with better information or better logic, but not for a bunch of judgemental posturing.

Ding. Try again.

again, I answered your questions validly.

so I guess we're even.

Anyway, I normally despise them, but I also recognize that this is just crap thinking and people just ready to be judgemental as hell without even considering anything else.

I guess when it's fashionable for us progressives to start burning witches I'll be accused of being a blind witch defender.

seeing that you defend this lowly and unprofessional 'stunt'.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

;-)

the creators of Reno 911, MadTV, SNL, Comedy Central, et. al? It's their job to entertain me. SFPD? Their job is to protect and serve, not deliver the funny.

Oh, and the producers of Reno 911 don't have the power or authority to shoot me like a rabid dog during a traffic stop.

The police department did not produce that video to entertain the masses.

The police are people and should be able to laugh at themselves, however misguided the effort.

And believe it or not, the police aren't all rabid dog shooters, regardless of your perception.

This shows that he thinks it's funny to mock the civilian population, the same population that he is supposed to "protect". No thank you, I'll protect myself from the criminals, including this PIG.

but, somehow, magically....IT REACHED THE PUBLIC! Gee, no way the cops who put this laff riot together could have ever anticipated that, eh? Especially after the 49er debacle earlier this year.

I have no problem with the SFPD "laughing at themselves", but I would expect them to have better sense than to commit something to video that they know will offend a vast majority of the people they're entrusted to protect and serve. Does the word "creditability" mean anything to you?

I didn't say that all police are rabid dog shooters...although I will contend that all federal air marshals are potential bipolar-patient executioners.

Wasn't it on the guy's own web site?

Does that constitute magic?

I miss Doug Henning.

A couple of years ago, a little boy called 911 because he thought someone was breaking into his house and his mother wasn't home yet.

SFPD responded to the call, and when they talked to the boy his dog growled at them. One of the cops pulled his revolver, shot the dog, and the bullet passed through the pooch and hit the kid.

So, the kid has a dead dog and is in the hospital with a bullet in his knee, and SFPD refused to apologize for the shooting. Nice, eh? They could give a damn about public perception, and people have had enough.

so they're all suspect.

Sounds like . . . . bigotry to me. Where does it end? There can't possibly be ANY good cops in san francisco is what I'm hearing.

However, big city police departments have a history of poor relations with the community they 'serve'. This is just a fact.

lighten up. It wasn't THAT bad. It's overreaction all the way around.

I think we waste our energy on fights like this (I mean, the media telling us what we're supposed to feel about it).

I didn't think it was so bad, and I've explained why. I don't recommend police officers doing this kind of thing on general principle, but I can see how they got there. Should people lose their jobs over it? Overreaction.

this video is a vile POS.

back to making statements with no logic. Go away.

Sounds like Sean Hannity's "logic".

and your arguing style is EXACTLY like Sean Hannity. In fact you probably ARE Sean Hannity.

Who calling names. I'm not, you are.

I have a right to speak my mind. I ask that you respect that.

you must not get out much.

"Cop Killer" (1992). So according to you, it's alright for the police to mock and demean the civilian population, but it's not o.k to mock and demean the police. Now that's a double standard.

police are mocking themselves. You are one of those people who confuse the symbol with the referent.

In Reno 911 they are mocking idiosyncracies of police work, including idiosyncratic behaviors shown by civilians. Do you think that MadTV spoofs of COPS and shows like Reno 911 are reality? Why is it so difficult to see the humor in these tapes? It's not like it was a bunch of white guys painting themselves black or victimized officer women coerced into making this goofball film. The so called "minorities" are knowingly portraying themselves. Common sense says . . .

You still haven't given me good logic here.

lack of professionalism.
:eyes:

did you just learn how to use smilies?

If you can't make an argument using whole sentences with subject object agreement, then please stop wasting your heartbeats. I'd rather hear from people who can back up an assertion.

Where I work (the private sector), no one would ever get away with this.
Additionally, I will ask you again, "Why should I trust any cop who would mock the population that they are trying to protect?"

your humanity. I think they are demonstrating their humanity and at the same time mocking themselves, but no good deed goes unpunished. We have some very rigid views about what people "should be" allowed to do or not do that just don't seem very tolerant ourselves.

I have to take a chance that I'll be perceived as a bigot or something equally unsavory here by my friends on DU for not following mainstream thinking on this. That's my humanity - at the end of the day I still like ya.

I have not been disappointed either }(, but I would not be true to myself if I didn't take a chance and say that I disagree with the prevailing sentiment, and why.

I work in global investments, upwards of $500 million per. If I made a video about my co-workers poking fun at the things we do, yes, that would be unprofessional too. That's not a standard. Anybody who knows me would know that it would be a goofball thing to do and certainly not done without participation and understanding of the goofiness of the project. Does that make me less able to analyze the market or make a great investment? Not at all.

Do you think they'd have the same level of confidence in your firm? What if you mocked your clients in the video? Do you think your boss would tolerate that? Would he or she see the humor in it?

and most of them do have a sense of humor. There are some who would be offended. Mostly, if I made a video like that it would be with their participation and they would voluntarily receive a copy of it, kind of like copying everyone you casually mention in a business letter out of respect for having mentioned them. That's the way the business world works.

and your clients wouldn't just approve, they'd participate?

Uh-huh. OK.

Come on now Sui, we are professionals. We are here to earn a living (for me that is quite a decent one at that).
Freddie, my clients would not approve of this. Next thing, the OP will be saying that sexual harrassment is just a "little fun". "Excessive force" is just "frat boy behavior" (Rush said this regarding the torture scandal).

Thanks for the support.

I suspect the OP's employment is in the same alternative universe where MadTV and Reno 911 run the police departments.

"I suspect the OP's employment is in the same alternative universe where MadTV and Reno 911 run the police departments."

:rofl:

now you are becoming offensive. You are posturing, calling me vile, and comparing me to Rush, Sean H., a sexual harrasser and a torturer.

Is there anything you've left out? we haven't gotten to nazi's and pederasts yet, but I'm waiting.

Are you being professional with me? I don't think so.

I'm just saying I saw the humor in the video, and I don't agree with the "mainstream" assessment of it. I said that, and then you and Freddie came along and started judging me, personally.

That's not very progressive, I'm not sorry to have to inform you.

Also, I am not buying this, "let's make AX10 the agressor" crap. I have put up with this kind of shit my whole life. I don't buy into it.

Let's call a truce. I've already called you the AX10 of Evil elsewhere :P

Too much drama here and not enough productive discussion. Let's just rewind and try it again later.

yawn.

Are you really this stupid, or just pretending to be? Actually I wouldn't make any such video, but if I were going to make fun of how the office functions, it wouldn't concern the clients at all.

Anyway, you're trying way too hard to villify me. Let's roll it back - I'm not a bad guy. I don't understand your overt anger towards me - it seems misplaced. You want to fight - let's take it offline. PM away.

And I really do work where I say I do

your poor choice of words below cinched it. Ta-ta.

;-)

but you know everything already.

Anyway, I wouldn't have hidden it from you, I would have made it with your participation, and given you a copy.

I had to read that twice to make sure you actually wrote that. Do you seriously want to go down this road?

what in hell are you talking about? Were those not real women playing "Charlies Angels"?

Was the person playing the homeless person african american or not? Or is being homeless a minority? Do you really want to fight or is there something constructive you would rather do? I am not the enemy. I am just speaking my mind and right now nobody so far has said anything that has justified me changing my stance, which is not to say that it won't happen.

Can we talk or do you want to fight? I'm up for either.

of what you meant by "so-called 'minorities'". Do you deny they're minorities?

poor choice of phrase on my part. I intended to convey that the news stated that this was offensive to minorities, yet it was these "so-called" minorities that were portraying themselves - women portraying women, black and asian people portraying black and asian people.

Have you had enough coffee this morning? Are you a bit cranky? I'm really not evil.

:shrug:

If you postured less you could spend more time reading.

Horrid (racial stereotypes) as they are, I read them. I would say if you "postured" less you could try to use logic to understand why the contents of the tape are wrong.

"vile"

you are clearly not a long term DU poster, or you are a complete idiot.

go away. alert the media and the mods if you like. Please be sure to tell them about your description of my vileness first though.

buh bye.

Is that what you are saying?

with his brief forray into metal/hardcore "Body Count"?

I see that you do not live in San Francisco. The SFPD is and has been a mess for years. This simply reinforces peoples' long-standing suspicions about the department. It is a big deal because perception is as important as reality, especially in local politics.

The SFPD is always embroiled in some kind of scandal.

This pisses me off because not long ago, I was broadsided by a hit-and-run driver in Noe Valley who ran a stop sign. My car was totaled and I was badly injured. A witness got his license number, so I called the SFPD and waited...and waited...and waited for them to show up. They never did. Finally, I got myself to the Mission station to file a report, and what happened? I got a letter from them about a month later saying they were 'too backlogged' to investigate, but they were nice enough to run the plate and give me the driver's information to give to my insurance company.

Nice that you can get away with a felony in San Francisco because the cops are sooooooo busy, yet they have time to made silly, degrading videos. That's why this is causing such an uproar.

than most of the progressives here.

I know that one cop on your beat does not represent everyone. This is bizarre by the way - I have had knock several down drag outs with the DPD in court over the years, so funny that I'm defending them.

I AM finding from this thread and the shrillness on the news that maybe SF isn't as "tolerant" as they pretend to be.

If you want to talk about tolerance, take a look at that video and tell me where the tolerance is in that.

I know the media is making an issue out of this because they love knocking San Francisco, but San Franciscans know that SFPD is a wreck and has been for many years.

or just the fragment the news wanted you to see? Be honest.

so....what video segment haven't we seen yet? The one where the cops give life lessons to a mixed race group of children on tolerance and respect? Does that mitigate the other scenes of racist, misogynist nonsense?

I haven't seen the entire end-to-end video myself but I have seen three different segments selectively "edited" by various news to evoke a reaction.

The first unedited one was pretty funny. The second cut edited for news broadcast was offensive and it was the same edited segment I had seen just a few minutes earlier minus some scenes and with a solemn anchor voiceover.

I don't buy the hysteria. Not when the news tells me I need to be outraged OUTRAGED I tell you, nor when my fellow posters here do. That's all.

Locals of SF understand the seriousness of this.

got the message. thanks.

What made you say that? :shrug:

because he/she's from Dallas. Which we're not. But the OP will go on believing that anyway.

I think the OP is confused...he thinks the SFPD should be judged on the same artistic plane as "Chapelle's Show"

I made a statement to elicit conversation, not judgement. If you can't supply anything but adolescent posturing, then I can't credit anything you have to say anyway.

Why don't you try reading my post and responding to the points I made. It's much more civil.

Freddie is absolutly right. Why do you want to use "comedy" as a standard to judge real life?

I'll bet you don't even laugh when you're supposed to without permission.

Again, I'll have to ask to you re-read my original post to answer your question.

You knew exactly what you were looking for with your OP...defending the SFPD for this moronic and titanic PR fuck-up is not going to get you a lot of support on this board, particularly from those of us who live in SF. And your continual comparison of the SFPD video to actual comedy shows as equivalents indicates to me a level of confusion on your part.

let's list it out, Missy.

1. Don't call me scarlett, how is that different than SFPD video mocking fags? Hmmmmm?
2. I'm not confused but you are now becoming offensive, so the gloves are coming off.

I'm not looking for support. Children do that. I'm looking for discussion but all I'm getting is ninny posturing from a bunch of San Francisco poseurs. Can you not please put it succinctly and constructively or do you have to throw a zinger and a judgement with every phrase?

You're a bunch of children. Grow up. The world is bigger than San Francisco. And I don't give a shit if you think this is a popularity contest. That's not why I'm here. I'm here because I give a damn and I want to talk about the issue. I gave you my perception of it, and you gave me your judgement of it. Again, grow fucking up. Scarlett.

:rofl:
According to you, anyone who DOES NOT FIND THIS VIDEO to be "funny" is wrong.
You don't want a discussion. You want people who agree with you only. That is not a discussion.

Pity

1) My apologies for calling you Scarlett...I'll reference a more modern drama queen next time.
1a)"fags"? You are definitely winning friends here

2) you got discussion and informed opinion and my feeling is - you can't handle it. You don't live in SF, you don't know the particularly bad relationship the SFPD has with the public and how monumentally destructive this video is to their efforts to repair relations here. You would rather wade in on something you know little about and spew an ignorant opinion...suit yourself, it's a big Internet.

yes, the world is bigger than SF...but this particular story is a San Francisco story. I'm not saying you have to be from SF to have an opinion on it, but it helps to know the context in which this is taking place.

yours in respect,
Fred

with me from this (albeit very labored) more civil discussion.

BTW I am a "fag" - I know exactly who my friends are. You really should research me if you have time. I didn't get to be a high poster and article contributor by rolling my eyes, or allowing strangers to get away with calling me a drama queen. Really.

Before we started this all you had to say was, Sui you don't understand, here are some examples of how this is perceived here and why. But that's not what you and the AX10 of evil did. You went after me personally and then started whining when I dared to defend myself.

I wanted constructive conversation. What I got was not what I expected from DU, but then it's only been you two.

Here's hoping to more productive conversation in the future.

You claim to be a "progressive" yet refer to homosexuals as "fags". Not very "progressive".

You really are underinformed. Please please please do a search on me under articles, under GLBT. Then take your outrage elsewhere - you are so out of line it's beyond words to describe.

I'd like to see it before making a judgment.

it is a fictional show that mocks police stereotypes.

San Francisco police are allowed to have a sense of humor. But they need to put that in a perspective.

Showing a woman puttnig on lipstick during a drug bust maybe be funny but it is funny because you are making fun of the woman.

Showing a 2 cops practice ti chi with asian music in the background then enter a massage palor and not answer the radio is really funny, til you realize it is perpeturing stereotypes about asians and their business.

The problem isn't that the videos are FUNNY, the problem is the police department is set to a higher standard. Their job is to work within the community to serve and protect, not mock and stereotype.

that's what I needed to hear, and I agree with you.

I do think there are elements of it that were humorous, and I also think that police officers should choose different material to mock their daily lives than the people that they were playing off of.

But in a dualistic world, I can both see the humor and say it was inappropriate. Thanks for your level headed reply!

-Sui

"The videos include scenes of uniformed and plainclothes officers mocking the homeless, women, Asians, African-Americans and gay men. In one segment, a mock scene has a black woman yelling after apparently having been hit by a patrol car."

Why did the police pick certain groups to joke about? It makes it seem like they have a problem with these folks. Perhaps these vids are what they really think of them. Try imagining thinking about that when you are a gay asian man waiting for the cops to come help you.

How dare they judge the SFPD for making a racist, sexist, homophobic video? Besides, it was supposed to be for their own private consumption.:eyes:

Sorry pal, there is no excuse for this kind of shit the SFPD pulled. What, you don't think that those racist, sexist, homphobic attitudes won't carry over into their professional work? Sorry, but it does and will. Mocking the very people you are supposed to be serving is wrong, period. Reno 911, Mad TV and the rest of that dreck are supposed to be comedy shows, SFPD is supposed to be in the business of protecting and serving, not mocking and ridculing.

But then again, this little laugh riot is merely a symptom of a larger problem. Namely that the old school police attitudes about being public servants has changed over the years. Now cops consider themselves to be guards at an outdoor insane asylum, and rather than protecting and serving the public, the public is regarded with fear and loathing by most modern police. And that fear and loathing is what shines through on this little video of theirs. Perhaps rather than addressing this video, this symptom, the SFPD needs to address the larger problem, and get an attitude adjustment on how they regard the public. If the police want respect and cooperation from the citizen, then they need to start giving it out to the public, all members of the public. Until then, they're going to be rightfully regarded with fear and loathing by a large portion of the public, and incidents like this little film won't help matters at all.

but they thought they were mocking how the public perceives them. Kind of a snake eating its own tail.

We just confused WHAT they're mocking (themselves) with that perception. There is an essay response here - but basically you are right that police view "civilians" as different from themselves for reasons most civilians can't comprehend, and "civilians" view police as something most police officers don't get for reasons most seasoned police officers can't escape, namely, only bad news makes the news.

Nobody here has given any good examples of good cops. What does that mean? Can't think of any? Didn't remember any? There aren't any?

It shouldn't be illegal on DU to challenge this thinking and approach it more critically.

their behavior (lead by example). That's all there is to it. There was no need to make this video. It certainly does not help their cause.

But then again, this wasn't really a PR release.

I will agree that they should stay out of professional comedy on this topic, or that they should probably not be using official equipment and filming on the clock because then it does become representative and property of the SFPD.

Another example is if I made something in bad taste (absolutely impossible for me) at work, it would be worthy of commentary much moreso than if I had made an anonymous video sketch mocking what I do and kept it on my private website with no affiliation to my company or to named clients.

I AM of two minds. I see where they were going with it and got a chuckle out of some of it, and I don't believe it was intended to be malicious, at least not in the way we vigilant arbiters of political correctness seem to think it was. But you are correct in that they have a perception to uphold and they just shouldn't have gone there at risk of this kind of reaction, given who they are.

That's just my opinion.

And have enough old school law enforcment officers in my family to know good cops when I see them. Yes, even good, old school cops will make light of the public they serve. But it wouldn't be in such a humiliating, hateful way. And above all, good cops did, and the few left still do, consider themselves first and foremost to be public servants. It is that attitude, that respect for the folks who pay your salary, that is sorely lacking in police depts. nationwide, and apparently even more so in San Fran.

the "few left still do, consider themselves first and foremost to be public servants. It is that attitude, that respect for the folks who pay your salary, that is sorely lacking in police depts. nationwide, and apparently even more so in San Fran"

Actually, I don't even watch TV anymore, so I only know what other people talk about. However, I do know what it's like to be on the receiving end of the Liberal Confomity Enforcement Squad when I suggest that maybe we don't need to ban or censor something to solve a problem. To some, I suppose tolerance is reserved for those who follow a specific prescribed set of beliefs. I think real freedom scares the hell out of some people, whether they're willing to admit it or not.

I've had "spirited discussions" with people having a bad day before, and they tend to bite and scratch a lot like some here.

We can't all be the same elevated level of saintly humanity that I am :P thanks for the support

My values tell me that the content of the video is wrong.
Many of us feel the same way too.

You were pretty ugly to me right from the get go.

I understand values. I also understand pluralism and complex thinking. My world is not black or white, and I AM a progressive.

There actually has been constructive conversation here now, I don't know why I became the focus of the attack. So all I can chock it up to is having a bad day.

If your values are to judge everyone who disagrees with you, that's fine. If your values are to lead an assault on everyone who disagrees with you, that's not fine. I'm not frail or feebleminded or ill considered, and I don't take shit from anyone, not even my friends. When I come here it is to have a talk with people I trust to develop a conversation with, not to be judged, and certainly not to be judged by people who liken me to Sean Hannity, or Rush Limbaugh.

All I can chock it up to is you were having a bad day, I hope, because I can forgive that.

"If your values are to judge everyone who disagrees with you, that's fine. If your values are to lead an assault on everyone who disagrees with you, that's not fine. I'm not frail or feebleminded or ill considered, and I don't take shit from anyone, not even my friends. When I come here it is to have a talk with people I trust to develop a conversation with, not to be judged, and certainly not to be judged by people who liken me to Sean Hannity, or Rush Limbaugh."

You don't like anyone who disagrees with you. That is obvious.
-peace

that was my point. I don't know you well enough to know if I like you or not, and a few hot words in a forum aren't going to be enough for me to make that decision.

I just don't like to be compared to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity. Do you say that to everyone YOU like?

I don't get it. Every time I hand you an olive branch you try to bite my finger off at the shoulder.

I'm out of olive branches.

Not sure I understand your post, but are you equating comedy shows and fiction on TV with a video made by actual police officers on duty?

If you are, I think you need to reassess your values.

just little old bigoted me hanging around DU with 7000 posts. Don't know WHY they haven't deleted me yet.

Again, with the personal judgement! Here's advice: if someone here says something, just reply to it. No judgement is required. Be constructive, share your ideas constructively, you may even have additional new information to add, and if they still don't agree with you then it's okay. It really is.

There is no way to equate fictional TV shows with a video made by real police.

the taxpayers', no?

They can be outraged if they like. And if you're not an SFer, I don't really think your opinion matters a whole hella lot. (neither does mine for that matter.)

You asked what you were missing. Well, that's what you are missing.

;)

I actually agree on the taxpayer dollar thing, yes. But I don't give a flying flipping shit what you think about whether my opinion matters; that's between you and the toilet paper.

at the end of the day, that's what pisses people off more than anything else.

Yeah, sure, some people (on both sides) are getting all charged up about the video (which I've not seen, nor do I care enough to see it). But what matters is, it's goofing off, and when you get caught goofing off on the job, generally there are repercussions.

Another local story that we all have to hear about because of manufactured outrage

Please explain.

everyone would be jumping to defend them, saying it was harmless, lame but harmless and well within their rights if it wasn't done on the company dime...

why? Because everyone likes Firefighters. If Firefighters want to laugh at themselves then everyone's willing to support them.

But a lot of people are angry with the police (many rightly, some wrongly) so they look for reasons to be ourtraged. I saw the MSNBC replay on Countdown at from what I saw the tape seemed a lame, rediculous, but pretty direct attempt to mimic Reno911. Each scene seemed to make the police the parody as much as anyone else. And this was, as far as I could tell from the presentation, a private effort for a private party. Was it lame? Sure. Was it actionable? I think not because I honestly believe that an equal effort by any group that we liked would be protected. If anything I think it's a good thing that police can poke at themselves and point out some of their own stereotypes...it humanizes them a bit.

I also strongly suspect there is more to this story than is known yet...between the police department, the chief of police, and the mayor...showing this at a news conference the way it was seemed odd. I suspect there's another shoe to drop out there and when that happens perhaps we'll have a better understanding.

While it was very low humor, I don't think it was actionable by the dept. Its very non-PC, but As long as it was done off of city time, not clear they can be punished. Number of precedents for this, including school underground newspapers.

Another way to look at it would be: If it was political (they ran over Bush) or the Bush Twins were doing the oogling of a female police captain, would it have been OK or at least protected speech?

While it was very low humor, I don't think it was actionable by the dept. Its very non-PC, but As long as it was done off of city time, not clear they can be punished. Number of precedents for this, including school underground newspapers.

Another way to look at it would be: If it was political (they ran over Bush) or the Bush Twins were doing the oogling of a female police captain, would it have been OK or at least protected speech?

would be hammering non stop 24/7.

Civil discussion of this topic has degenerated into personal attacks. Sorry.