Still want to put your SS funds in the stock market?

Tell me, why wouldn't this be able to happen here?

Remember when Clinton was Pres. and the Dow hit 10,000. It's been hovering around there every since (okay, about 9% above right now). The only people making money in the market are the brokers.

Which is what percentage of tax paying citizenry of our supposed Democracy is that? Our economy suggests we should ignore Democracy all together for Fascism.

it has been fluctuating in a range of about 4% ever since. Just prepping the herd for the next shearing, should happen in the next 3 or 4 months.
The price of ignorance. :eyes:

But i'm of mixed opinion on the SS plan.

It is, for all intents, a pyramid scheme.
The payroll tax is the most regressive, job killing, wage suppressing tax there is.

I'd favor caps to SS payments, and funding from another source - say, resource rents. Wages tend to decrease with competition (witness outsourcing) while resource rents tend to increase (witness oil, airwaves, mining rights, etc.)

If your going to put our SS funds in the stock market why not just take our retirement funds down to the track and bet on a horse?

Or better yet why not take it all and issue everyone a few dozen Lotto tickets every year.

I don't trust the government with my money

You are not making direct 1:1 contributions. You are pooling money for the betterment of the community.

The "Decide for myself" crowd are spouting liberatarian narcissism. It's NOT FOR YOURSELF. If you want a civilized and humane society, you have to pay for it.

... what they can do with the premiums you pay? Do you regard those premiums as "your money"??

Such rhetoric is nothing but Reichbot Bullshit.

the same as SS?

Federal Insurance Contributions Act (FICA)
Old Age and Survivor's Insurance
Disability Insurance


It's not rocket science ... except apparently for freepers and reichbots. :eyes:

They insure my house against accidental loss or damage.

companies, that have collected billions in premiums from you and your neighbors, suddenly say they can't afford to pay the claims and just refuse to pay.
Talk to people in FL after Andrew hit about what the 'good hands people' did to their policy holders.

collectores, that have collected billions in premiums from you and your neighbors, suddenly say they can't afford to pay you social security and just refuse to pay.

There is a class or group of people that control all the money and they will never let it go, ever.

Since you know what insurance is, and SS is an insurance program, if after 30 years of paying premiums for your home, you never have a claim, never have any substantial damage, do you expect your money back?

What if, at one point in time, a large branch came down and damaged your roof and gutters? Insurance pays for the $1000 repair after you pay the first $100. Now after 30 years, and you've paid $14,000 in premiums, and only received $900, do you think the insurance company owes you $13,100? With interest?

I would hope you don't, because you'd be living in a dream world if you think you get that money back just because you didn't need it earlier.
The Professor

Now, after 30 years, and you've paid $14,000 in premiums, the company pays you $350,000 for the house. Do you think you owe the insurance company $336,000? With interest?

I come on DU and wonder who redirected the URL to freerepublic.com.

It's pretty damned amazing, frankly.

I expect any day to see "DUers" advocating eugenics and abolition of habeas corpus.

Look at the grammer. The spelling. The ideology. The language.

Some of these folks aren't Democrats.

Someone inform George Soros.

I guess I misunderstood.

is that I know a whole lot of folks who "have" a lot. Monetarily, physically and emotionally.

But those people don't talk like the posts I see here on DU lately. They aren't members of the "I got mine, fuck you" club we see in this thread. THEY are Democrats. None of them own the ideology we see in this thread - not the multi-millionaires I know, not the well to do families I know, not the middle class families I know. Not one of them.

n/t

to for decades. A few examples;
What's good for GM is good for amerika
Corporations are more efficient than the government
Corporations don't pay taxes
Corporations get big because they are better at competition
(One of my personal favorites)The government shouldn't meddle with the free market, each business must stand or fall on it's own merits, (until a really big corporation fucks up then) The country (gov) can't allow this company to fail, it's too big and the economy would suffer too much if we let go (as if the corporation were the industry).
Now I do believe that capitalism is generally a good system, but fear and greed are the twin motivators and therefore should not be the sole provider of essentials. Profit is not a good motivator for areas like education, health care, and justice, because it is more profitable to collect for and not deliver the service.
Is it coincidence that every economy that has kicked our asses for the last 35 years has used a mixed socialist model. The socialist side takes care of the basic needs of the citizens and the capitalist side uses the advantages of a healthy, well educated population to compete with the other companies.

n/t

:shrug:

But my impression was that you were claiming people were spouting right wing propaganda and corporate memes. I was asking you were seeign that int he thread.

No one on this thread said anything remotely close to that, neither literally nor in spirit. Saying "I'd like to decide" and "I don't trust the government" with regard to SS isn't close to what you are claiming.

Did they espouse doing away with SS? Did they say that wanted to privatize it 100%? No, not even close.

I happen to believe that partial privatization of SS would be a huge mistake and that the current program is absolutely the right way to go. BUt those who disagreed in this thread where hardly of the "I got mine" mindset.

Mine, on the other hand, would be in the opposition.

n/t

Either through an employer sponsered 401(k) or 403(b), through an IRA, or through a SEP (for those self-empoyed). You can decide exactly how to invest this money as you see fit, based on your individual goals and needs. And all of them are tax advantaged.

Social Security is a little different, as it is intended to provide a floor for your retirement. Because it is a guarentee, it is necessarily invested in a conservative mix. You don't want to be taking large risks with money that you absolutely need, so SS funds play it safe to ensure they can pay out to the millions of recipients.

Usually your options are limited to the funds available within the plan. I say usually, because more and more frequently plans allow you to set up a self-directed account within the plan. In other words, you can direct a portion of the funds into an account where you can purchase outside funds or stock directly.

However, for 99% of investors who don't have the time, inclination, or experience to manage their funds in that way, the array of funds within the plan should be more that sufficient. The average company sponsored fund now has *14* fund options to chose from (too many in my opinion, but better too many than too few), ranging from stable value funds through international and emerging market funds.

Additionally, even under the "private accounts" you'd have the same structure -- a limited set of investments to choose from.

For any outside account, or course, like an IRA or SEP, is completely up to you how to invest.

You're trusting the government with your money.

Also, have you ever contemplated the possibility of having to collect SS because of a disability? Or, do you think those who are unable to work should just be tossed into the street?

and flush money down the toilet. This is why when I worked for someone else I never had a 401K. Because you were forced to put a good portion of it in stocks. Sorry, I work too freakin hard for my money, nobody tells me what I can and can't do with it...

I understand there are ways to play the market and win if you know what you are doing, but I don't have the time to invest in it so for me it's no better than gambling. I also just can't concieve of giving my money to a broker who may lose it for me. It's kind of a moot point, I don't have much disposable income anyway. Not since the chimp took over...

I have a portfolio commensurate with my current risk tolerance. I bought some stocks that met some basic criteria, and have held on to them for years. I do not trade very often, but when I do trade, it's for the long haul.

First of all, if you don't put money into a 401(k) you are missing a great tax saving vehicle, since your contributions are tax deductible. So let's say your are in the 15% tax bracket: that means simply by making your contributions you have in essence "made" a 15% return since you don't have to pay taxes on the money.

Second, EVERY 401(k) plan I've seen (and I consult in benefits, and one of our primary tasks is helping companies with their 401(k) plans)has a money market option. So even if you are ultra risk averse, there is a very safe place for your money; you aren't forced to put it in stock funds. The biggest risk with a money market option is that it won't keep up with inflation, but you won't lose ANY capital.

Third, 401(k) are retirement vehicles, so assuming you have at least 10 years until retirement, parking your contributions into mutual funds is a great way to build up retirement assets. And, depending on your risk tolerance, those funds can be growth funds, international, small cap, large cap, bonds, or a mixture of all of them. The market will have its ups and downs, but over the long term it is a great way to save.

Don't let your fears or pre-conceptions make you miss out on a great way to build your retirement nest egg.

I guess I have an insane risk tolerance though because I quit with no money in the bank, no severance pay and 3 kids to feed.. Talk about a big risk... Worked out though, I am making more and working less than ever. Next year I may even have some disposable income to start investing. Provided Bush doesn't sink us all ;)

Congratulations on your business success. I went out on my own for about a year, but wasn't able to get it going the way I wanted to--but it still helped me immensely in my career.

Even if you are self-employed, there are a lot of good vehicles, such as an IRA, for you to invest in. If you are doing well, you are probably in a higher tax bracket, so the tax advantage becomes even more valuable. If you are in the 25% tax bracket, a $3,000 contribution cuts $750 right off the top of your taxes.

Or check out a Roth IRA. The money isn't tax deductible going in, but when you take it out, all the money is tax free (as it should be, since you've been taxed on it going in), but also the earnings on that money can be withdrawn totally tax fee.

cause I don't know squat about investing.

n/t

my former company's only low risk option, was a low risk mutual fund that invested in government bonds, etc. Maybe a money market is the same thing, but I did not see a non mutual fund option. My IRA money is in CDs, which is supposed to be a bad idea for a guy in his late 30s, but I was not hammered by the market. When I looked at their portfolio in late 2001 almost all of them were showing negative rates of return for the last three years.
A few years ago, I looked at putting some of my IRA money in the market, but the two places I talked to wanted a $60 annual fee, and I assume I would be paying broker's commissions on transactions, etc. Those costs seemed to negate any gains I might make on higher returns with my small amount (say $4000) invested.
A "friend" who is in the investing business showed that the higher return would more than cover the management fee, but when I investigated that fund it was investing in too much of the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) and I try, as much as I can, not to fund the warmongers or war profiteers. Of course, the stock I wanted to buy back in 2002 was, ahem, an oil company. :blush:

i.e., a money market fund, but it would be possible, particularly if the program wasn't well managed. and you are right, a bond fund is certainly not the same thing as a stable value/money market fund.

It is all about your risk tolerance, so if are uncomfortable with three years of negative returns...well, it is better to sleep soundly at night. OTOH, if you are in your 30's, you have plenty of time to make up for a few negative years.

You are also right, many places will charge an annual management fee until your IRA grows to a certain size. (I think Schwab, for instance, will charge you until you have $5,000 in the account).

It's that simple. The Wall Street culture is a culture of thievery. They de-fraud the public on a daily basis. They will figure out a way to steal the public's money. Just look at Iraq. Look at how Halliburton is stealing every damn day.

from privitizing SS are the money managers and whoever they contribute campaign dollars to.

Follow the money.

Paying off your home
Putting cash in the bank both in savings and CD's
Having some money in 401K or stocks
...etc

Social Security is the safety net so that if all of the above aren't done...you might freeze but you won't starve...since it isn't going to pay out a whole lot.

Now I think it is really foolish to put it in the market because it reduces your diversity....but that is me...and I am no econ major.

Most of your money should be put into SAFE investments, like appreciating real estate, savings accounts, treasury bonds, and safe stocks. If you try to play money games on Wall Street, you will lose. You don't have the inside information that the pros have. (See Bill Frist.)

but not yours or anyone else's

We are living on Hubby's disability payment, and have no money to invest. And if we get extra income it will impact his MediCal eligibility; we can't afford that because he is on a raft of medicines. So if they screw with Soc. Sec., we will be amongst those will starve/freeze under a tree (no overpasses anywhere near us). Invest, ha! It is to laugh.