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How did Bush ever get a degree at Yale?

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GOPFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:46 PM
Original message
How did Bush ever get a degree at Yale?
This has been bugging me for some time now.

Did the man ever have to write a term paper? Do an essay test? I'd sure like to see them. How did a man of George Bush's limited vocabulary, lack of intellectual curiosity and poor work habits get an Ivy League degree? Is it possible Yale is no more rigorous that your run-of-the-mill state university? If Bush graduated with a C average, meaning he was an average student, I think some Yale graduates might want a refund - or some answers.
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sabra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. his last name is Bush...
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Jack from Charlotte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
45. Exactly. Up until the late 60's The Ivey's were rife with cronyism and....
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 02:12 PM by Jack from Charlotte
anti semitism. Just read a book review on this the other day.... and it's my experience, too. Ivey's used to be fair in that one needed to take an entrance exam. Good score and you could get in. That was before WWII. Now fair wasn't ..... REAL.... fair in that the the entrance exam tested on Latin and a few other subjects that were only taught in private high schools. After WWII, they ditched the entrance exam and started taking in whoever they wanted. They did not take many or any Jews even if they were the top students and the had the top test scores. That was up until the mid to late 60's.(Read Alan Dershowitz's books on this and he said the same.)

Also, like many top schools, once you were in..... you graduated. The rarely gave a grade under a C. Even had a name for it.... "The Gentlemen's C."

That's how The AWOL/Moron got a degree from Yale. Rememeber.... he could not get in U. Texas Law School. And it's not like it is now. It's probably quite difficult to get in UT's Law School, now. It was not back in the mid 60's.
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cantstandbush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #45
68. "Legacy" addmissions and "legacy" degrees.
It's Affirmative Action for the privileged.
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ClusterFreak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ya gotta wonder...
....ya really, really do.:bounce:
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Nite Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. Daddy, Granddaddy
Just like everything else. He never earned anything on merit in his life.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. As jon Stewart once said on the topic ...
"George W. Bush, who was able to graduate from Yale on the coveted Barbara Bush Scholarship ..."

I'm sure his mommy and daddy made substantial financial contributions to the school to 'encourage' the giving of good grades.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. From what I hear, the family built a very nice gymnasium.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
63. They built a gym but he can't manage to stay on his bike?
That's funny!
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MN ChimpH8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Legacy admissions
tended to pass in those days regardless of how stupid they are. The Ivies and other elite schools are appreciably harder to get into these days.
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Tyrone Slothrop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
7. I've met and know quite a few Ivy League grads
From Yale, Harvard, Princeton and Columbia.

I was expecting to be utterly blown away by their genius and intellectualism. I no longer expect anything from Ivy Leaguers.

Don't get me wrong: I've met plenty of bona fide geniuses from these schools. However, I've also met plenty of folks who struck me as being about as bright as the average person at the state school that I went to.

For every incredibly bright, scholarship-needing Ivy Leaguer, there's at least one priveleged student who's there through the graces of a legacy or an astonishing amount of family wealth.
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calico1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:56 PM
Original message
If you want to find well educated
people in CT, you will find that more of them graduated from UCONN, not Yale. If your Daddy knows the right people, you can be a ding-a-ling like Bush and get a Yale degree. Ditto for all Ive League universities.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
49. Woodward was from Yale
That surprised me; he never seemed especially bright in interviews. Maybe it's our fault for expecting to be "dazzled" by someone just because of where they went to school.
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #7
59. All the ones that I know, except one, were there because of wealth
One is a genius, though, and two of the others are very bright. The fourth, however -- the one without money -- is bright, giving, kind and well-rounded. The others are kind of psycho.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
8. Same way he "accomplished" everything else - $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. Legacy
Like Yale would actually flunk out GW. He didn't do much but he did enough to get by. That attitude would have had him on academic probabtion after one semester at a publically funded university.

I wonder how many people actually flunk out of places like Yale and Harvard. Getting in seems to be the hard part (unless you're a legacy). Staying in, not so much.

Mz Pip
:dem:
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #9
39. of course getting in is the hardest part
and the legacies don't have that much easier of a time, to be honest, since there are so many of them. Remember, Bush went to college a long time ago, when it was more acceptable to have it be a gentleman's activity. This isn't as much of the case any more.
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Mz Pip Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. I agree about it not
being the case anymore. Back then there wasn't the population pressure so legacies were much easier to deal with - even weak assed ones.

I graduated from UC Berkeley, but back when I got in it was admitting most all of the eligible students that apply. Now it rejects nearly 50% of the kids who apply who have 4.0s and above. Too many applicants, not enough spots.

Might not be quite so easy for Bush to get in today. Still, the family are big donors which would still count for something.

Mz Pip
:dem:
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northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #51
65. celebrity helps, sure
so do donations, but a place like Harvard or Yale has so much money (endowments in the tens of billions) that a Bush type simply doesn't have the money to make a difference. (they're wealthy, but they aren't fuck-you rich) a big donor to Harvard is Bill Gates giving 100 million, not a six figure gift from a Bush. their annual fund drives exceed most school's endowments. the amount of money is absurd. Yale, Princeton and Dartmouth are bigger on the legacies than old Harvard.

And, frankly, there are tons of well qualified, well connected kids fighting for the same spots. A legacy helps, but it isn't a shoe in, and hasn't been, really, since the early 70's. Harvard turns down 12 applicants for every one it takes, and they all have 4.0s, 1500 SATs play two varsity sports, concert level piano and volunteer. It is a total and complete crapshoot for almost anyone. (exagerration, of course, but not that much) it takes a lot for the school to overlook someone 'qualified' in favour of someone less qualified but connected.
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. The weird part is Kerry's and Bush's grades are similar
if you can believe what's been published on it.

No telling how poppy Bush might have had the records played with.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
37. Well with Kerry
I believe he started out as a weak student but got better and worked harder and was very involved in clubs with politics and did sports too. I think all Bush did was just cheerlead.
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deminks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. Legacy.
The entitlement of the rich and famous. Doesn't matter how they got in, or evidently, what they do with it.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. Once you get in, it's not hard to pass
with the old "gentleman's C". I would dare say that just about any 18-22 year old kid could pass and get a degree from Yale, provided he or she avoided the hardest classes. Getting in is the hard part, which is where legacy admissions comes in, better known as affirmative action for old money WASP families.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Not really - Cheney flunked out of Yale twice
He had to go back home and finish at the state school in Wyoming.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Let me qualify my statement
You still have to do your work, do your reading, and not party and booze your way out of school. I saw that happen to a lot of people, and I went to college at a school only a notch below the ivies.

But if you do your work, don't drink yourself out of school, and if you stay away from the hardest courses (like freshman chemistry, for example), then you can pass.
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rw3204 Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Unless I'm mistaken,
I doubt Cheney's daddy had any financial or political influence.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. You're kidding!
I didn't know that - combined w/the 5 deferments Cheney seemed to be a pretty big underachiever.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
47. Don't forget the two DWI's



Cheney's record of mistakes begins in 1959, when Tom Stroock, a Republican politician-businessman in Casper, Wyoming, got Cheney, then a senior at Natrona County High School, a scholarship to Yale. "Dick was the all-American boy, in the top ten percent of his class," Stroock says. "He seemed a natural." But instead of triumphing, Cheney failed. "He spent his time partying with guys who loved football but weren't varsity quality," recalls Stephen Billings, an Episcopalian minister who roomed with him during Cheney's freshman (and only full) year at Yale. "His idea was, you didn't need to master the material," says his other roommate, Jacob Plotkin. "He passed one psych course without attending class or studying, and he was proud of that. But there are some things you can't bluff, and Dick reached a point where you couldn't recover."

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/6450422?rnd=1134153551086&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1059






One atypical point about Casper was that it was an oil town. It attracted people who wanted to make a lot of money; some were scions of respectable Eastern families who had an adventurous streak. In that sense, Casper was like Midland, Texas, where George W. Bush grew up in a small colony of preppie expats. The Casper version of George H. W. Bush was a man named Thomas Stroock, whose great-great-uncle helped found the venerable New York law firm of Stroock & Stroock & Lavan and who operated an independent oil company called Alpha Exploration. In fact, Tom Stroock was (and still is) a friend of George Bush's—they were both Yale '48—and, like Bush, spent his spare time on Republican politics.

Lynne Vincent, as a high-school student, got a part-time secretarial job in Stroock's office. She introduced him to her boyfriend, Dick Cheney, who played halfback and outside linebacker and was senior-class president at Natrona County High, and Stroock liked the cut of Cheney's jib. "In those days, you could do things you can't do now," Stroock told me, "so I called Yale and told 'em to take this guy," along with Natrona County High's all-state quarterback from the class of '59, Tom Fake. Yale offered Cheney and Fake full scholarships; in the yearbook there is a picture of the two Stroock-anointed boys, crewcut and grinning, with a caption that says, "Ivy League bound Tom Fake and Dick Cheney show their happiness upon receiving notice of their acceptance by Yale University."

This personnel system, halfway between modern meritocracy and a Horatio Alger novel in which plucky lads get started by caddying for the wealthy, was also responsible for sending that year's student-body president, Dave Nicholas, to Harvard, through the patronage of another émigré alumnus. Both Cheney and Fake flunked out. (Nicholas finally graduated from Harvard in 1967.) In Cheney's case, he decided after three semesters that he should take some time off. He spent a year and a half working as a power lineman and saving up money, returned to Yale, and left again because of poor grades, this time for good, after another semester. What happened? I asked Dave Nicholas, now a lawyer in Laramie, Wyoming, and he said, "I can only extrapolate. They were smart enough, but they hadn't been prepped like the guys from the academies. Going from where we were, that solid, pragmatic background, to the less concrete, more abstract, more theoretical—we needed the bread and butter first. And the social milieu, which I liked, was like 'Animal House,' and when I went to Yale to visit those guys it was like that. It wasn't what you'd expect. It wasn't the most rigorous learning environment." The Casper boys, all of whom had grown up without want, suddenly found themselves in an unfamiliar world of ease, wealth, and connections, in which your mistakes might be forgiven if you had been born into it but not if you hadn't. That's a lesson that sticks with you.

During my interview with Cheney, I asked him how he had gone from flunking out of Yale to becoming, as he did within a few years, the epitome of a super-responsible young man. "Hmm. Well, I'm sure for my family it didn't seem like it happened all that fast," he said, cracking his crooked smile. "No, I got out of high school. I hadn't really given that much thought to what I was going to do. I was recruited to go to Yale." He mentioned the Thomas Stroock connection. "I did it primarily because he invited me to do it. I was admitted, and given a full-ride financial package, 'cause my family couldn't afford to send me to Yale. I spent a total of four semesters there, but I was not a diligent student. Really wasn't. Hadn't given it any thought. Wasn't gonna go to college and buckle down. Big transition going from small-town Wyoming to New Haven, Connecticut."

As Cheney got into the story, his language drifted into that terse John Wayne rhythm. "And by the summer of 1963 I was working in Rock Springs, Wyoming, building a power line from there down to Flaming Gorge Reservoir. Wyoming-Utah border. For six years, from the summer I got out of high school, 1959, to the year after Lynne and I got married, when I wasn't in school, I was working on the power lines. Carried a ticket in the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers." He continued, "When I should have been graduating from Yale, one of the world's finer universities, with a first-rate education, all paid for by the university, I found myself in Rock Springs"—Wyoming's blue-collar, union, Democratic town—"working, building power lines, having been in a couple of scrapes with the law. Arrested twice within a year for driving under the influence, once in Cheyenne, once in Rock Springs. And it was a sobering"—Cheney chuckled. "I'm not sure that's the right word. Sobering moment. Sit down and think about where I was and where I was headed. I was headed down a bad road, if I continued on that course.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?040906fr_archive06


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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
13. same way he got into Harvard business school---Daddy.
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Imagine My Surprise Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
15. He wasn't always this blatantly stupid, have you seen the video?
...of his debate with Ann Richard back when he unseated her for Governor? I was utterly shocked. His performance does not in ANY way resemble what he has become today. He spoke intelligently and used words that he actually understood and pronounced them correctly. This, I believe, underscores the whole idea of residual brain damage from earlier drugs AND/OR proof that he's drinking or on some kind of mind-numbing medication(s) now.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. But he still got into Harvard Business School with a C average
I doubt if Harvard would accept any of us with that kind of average. Unless, of course, Harvard's reputation is inflated and they'll accept anyone. Methinks, strings were pulled or large sums of money donated.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. More than likely lots of money
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. I believe he had a respectable SAT score
Not genius or anything, but not horrible either. I don't think Bush is "dumb", just ignorant.
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newspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. are you sure it's brain damage?
Did he have his fake Texas twang? I bet they hired a PR firm to create the Bush we see now. He's just a creation perpetrated by good PR. I mean, Hitler, thanked our PR industry since he used their "selling" methods on the German people. If you need a war, go to the PR industry to help you sell it. Just ask Poppy Bush and the first Desert Storm.
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Imagine My Surprise Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. And we have Hill-Knowlton PR Agency to thank for that
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. Yes, I've seen the video.
My explanation is, he can perform under pressure and do an effective job IF THERE IS PRESSURE. And since he was selected in 2000, there has been none.

I don't know if he's gone back on the bottle; I won't speculate on that. But I do think he's a fundamentally lazy, spoiled brat, who's reverted to form.

that said, yeah, he obviously had something on the ball when he was up against it and debating Ann Richards.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:50 PM
Original message
I found that quite interesting too
What's the deal? He could at least apply himself back than. Now he doesn't even bother.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
64. Bush can be very focused when he's doing something mean.
Someone (if I could remember who I'd cite) posted an article -- IIRC on Smirking Chimp -- pointing out that ** could get his act together when he had an opportunity to beat up on someone, like he really got into it. But for less exciting stuff, like running the country, he just gets bored and blows it off.
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
71. Ever since I first saw the video of that debate,
I've been convinced that Junior was coached to within an inch of his life as to what he should say. To me, he seemed to be regurgitating sentences he had learned by rote on whatever the topic happened to be ("hmm, lemme think, what is it I'm supposed to say if they ask me about crime?"). Now that he's embraced the idea that he's Fearless Leader (and I honestly believe that he believes he's in charge), I doubt he's so easy to coach so his breathtaking ineptness is all the more obvious.

Not that we'll ever know for sure, of course.
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Gidney N Cloyd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
17. Hey, *I* went to Runofthemill U. It was plenty rigiriss.
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madaboutharry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
18. I have known three people
who have graduated from these schools. One from Yale, someone who works with my husband and is the lazy ass of the place. This person would not know what a work ethic was if it stared him in the face. It is pathetic. A complete clock watcher. Another person, one of the early women to graduate from Harvard after it merged with Radcliff told me you have to be practically in a coma to flunk out. She told me the school would move heaven and earth, tutor someone 10 hours a day, to keep them in school. The goal was zero attrition. I heard the same from a woman who went to Princeton. She told me a C was actually viewed as a really bad grade.
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NicRic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
19. Same way he became President....
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 01:01 PM by NicRic
by cheating , and now he is lying his way thru his Presendency , the pefect puppet for the multi nationial companies ,via Dick Chenney .Now I understand the early retirement bonus Chenney recieved ,I mean who gets a bonus for retiring early ?
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Poll_Blind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
20. Belive it or not, the Bush who took office in 2000 was NOT the Bush...
...who was Texas' Governor. I saw a video once, and it can't be all that hard to find, with Bush in a gubenatorial debate sometime in the 90's. He was articulate, in control of the facts, frankly not the discognitive mutt we now have in office. However, something changed. The video is somewhere around 5-8 minutes long but you will not believe your eyes. He's suffering from early stages of dementia, it's eroding him like it would erode anyone affected with this serious disorder.

YES, I found it. This snippet of video you are about to see even spawned an article in The Atlantic Monthly, it was so powerful.

Watch HERE. Here is the page the video is from.

PB
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Imagine My Surprise Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #20
35. Thank you for posting that!
I've only seen the video once, but I was dumbfounded. And I don't use that term loosely, either. It could be an early onset of some kind of dementia. I would welcome any qualified medical DUers to comment on this.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. Don't forget he also
flipped off the camera once. They didn't know that it was rolling I don't think or think to look.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
44. This is what I thought too...
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 02:07 PM by Odin2005
* HAS suffering from some kind of dementia, I rember him being a so-so speaker in 2000, he's been getting really bad in the last 2 or 3 years.
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. Poppy bought it for him.
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
24. I wish one of his professors would spill the beans
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. That's already happened - one of his business school professors
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 02:04 PM by bullwinkle428
was a guest (on a number of occasions, I think) on the Morning Sedition show on AAR. He's Japanese; I'm trying to recall his name. The guy just basically was stunned by his general lack of intelligence, and seems rather disgusted that he eventually rose to where he is today. I'll try searching for more on this...

EDIT: Sweet Baby Jesus, I love the Internets!!! Here he is! Yoshi Tsurumi!

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/16/tsurumi/index_np.html
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. wow, just read it.
The professor describes him just as he appears, smirking, spoiled, and above having to think or answer for his opinions.

I'll excerpt it and paste some here.

!!!!
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. Bush the dunce - a professor speaks out
excerpt from Salon article September 2004, interview with Japanese business professor at Yale who had Bush as a student.


The dunce
His former Harvard Business School professor recalls George W. Bush not just as a terrible student but as spoiled, loutish and a pathological liar.

Yoshi Tsurumi, one of George W. Bush's professors at Harvard Business School

excerpt -
Bush, by contrast, "was totally the opposite of Chris Cox," Tsurumi said. "He showed pathological lying habits and was in denial when challenged on his prejudices and biases. He would even deny saying something he just said 30 seconds ago. He was famous for that. Students jumped on him; I challenged him." When asked to explain a particular comment, said Tsurumi, Bush would respond, "Oh, I never said that."

In 1973, as the oil and energy crisis raged, Tsurumi led a discussion on whether government should assist retirees and other people on fixed incomes with heating costs. Bush, he recalled, "made this ridiculous statement and when I asked him to explain, he said, 'The government doesn't have to help poor people -- because they are lazy.' I said, 'Well, could you explain that assumption?' Not only could he not explain it, he started backtracking on it, saying, 'No, I didn't say that.'"


Bush once sneered at Tsurumi for showing the film "The Grapes of Wrath," based on John Steinbeck's novel of the Depression. "We were in a discussion of the New Deal, and he called Franklin Roosevelt's policies 'socialism.' He denounced labor unions, the Securities and Exchange Commission, Medicare, Social Security, you name it. He denounced the civil rights movement as socialism. To him, socialism and communism were the same thing. And when challenged to explain his prejudice, he could not defend his argument, either ideologically, polemically or academically." Students who challenged and embarrassed Bush in class would then become the subject of a whispering campaign by him, Tsurumi said. "In class, he couldn't challenge them. But after class, he sometimes came up to me in the hallway and started bad-mouthing those students who had challenged him. He would complain that someone was drinking too much. It was innuendo and lies. So that's how I knew, behind his smile and his smirk, that he was a very insecure, cunning and vengeful guy."
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Imagine My Surprise Donating Member (938 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Thank you so much!
What's fascinating here is that ** hasn't changed ONE BIT. Equally telling about the whole bad-mouthing thing. Not man (or woman!) enough to challenge someone directly, has to start untrue tales about them. Little wonder he and Karl Rove get along so well. And yeah, it IS pathalogical. That's what a lot of people don't realize. It isn't just legacy and shrewdness -- sure he got to "where he is" through no efforts of his own. But the fucker is incapable of anything good. Utterly, PATHOLOGICALLY incapable of anything good coming from him any more than you could expect orange juice from an apple. And here he is -- though thank god faltering -- a cult hero to other mindless fucks.
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. All of the gutter tactics he's employed against
his political opponents make perfect sense when looking back at his formative years...
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. Formative years...
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 03:58 PM by Marie26



From Yale's 1969 yearbook.
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Marie26 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #50
66. Well... at least he made an impression. nt
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Blue Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #43
67. I heard that NPR Interview...
It was right before the elction, and the Professor pulled no punches. It was great...
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
25. It's not necessarily what you know
It's who you know
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KamaAina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. Intriguingly, Yale toughened its admissions standards in '69
right after King Dumbass*** DC'68 left. Could it be that someone said, "We can't let THAT ever happen again!"?

It still doesn't hurt to be a legacy, obviously, but now they at least have to demonstrate while they're at Andover or Hotchkiss or wherever that they have something on the ball besides just the famous last name.
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Old Smokey Donating Member (193 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
29. Anytime I hear the word Legacy
I think of Flounder trying to get into the Deltas in the classic movie Animal House. "They've gotta take me....Iam a Legacy" Thats kinda how bush got into yale.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
31. And remember, he was rejected at Univ. of Texas Law School
Rejected at UT but accepted at Yale. Very telling.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. I didn't know that
Wow. Very telling indeed. Why did he not get accepted at UT?
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #42
55. It appears he was on the outs with Poppy
and applied to Univ. of Texas Law School on his own. He was rejected. Then he approached Poppy, who pulled strings and got him into Harvard Business School.
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Texasgal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. You mean you don't know???
His Daddy paid off school officials!! :P
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
36. From what I've read
he showed up late to class, sat in the back and was lazy and etc. Probably partied a lot too and had other people help him with homework or do it for him. He had the name and money to get in and than he barely passed compared to other Yale students.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
46. Wouldn't it be funny if we found out Hillary or Clinton
confessed to tutoring Bush while at Yale? LOL! Were they attending at the same time? :shrug:
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kskiska Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #36
58. Chimp at Yale
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
38. I'd bet $ he bought all of his 'work', probably from a scholarship student
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
52. Legacy Admissions & Grade Inflation (eom)
The Professor
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
56. It's called the "Gentleman's C", and legacies get special treatment
His daddy & Granddaddy went there, they were politically prominent people, and at the time george was just another rich, well-connected kid, trying to stay out of viet nam.. They could not have known what was ahead for him.. Lots of kids got the same treatment.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
57. poppy
same way he got IN in the first place
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
61. Delete please
Edited on Fri Dec-09-05 03:58 PM by AZBlue
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
62. I wonder how he event got a HS Diploma!
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #62
69. Lots of material on Bush/Yale/Harvard...
Yale: Bush Auditorium

Harvard: Close Bush ties to the Harvard Fund

Grades: He managed a C+ in cheerleading at Yale.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-10-05 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #69
73. Undergrad from Yale and MBA from Harvard. They must be so proud.
Edited on Sat Dec-10-05 12:11 AM by AZBlue
And thank you hayu_lol for not asking how I got MY H.S. degree since I spell the word "even" with a "t" on the end! I'm .
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kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
70. He got in with SAT score of only 1200 or 1205. As if *that* ever happens,
except for legacy admissions.
Sheesh.
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tenshi816 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. I'm not trying to make Junior look smart,
because I don't believe he is, but back when he took the SATs wasn't that a respectable score? I've been out of school a long time, and over the years I've read that the SATs aren't as rigorous as they used to be because public education has declined in quality so much in the USA, and tests have been dumbed down accordingly. For example, there was a time when you couldn't use calculators in the math section of the SAT, and I'm betting that's not the case now.

DUers from the 60s and 70s, is this right or not? I'm really curious.

In any event, I'm shocked that Junior Bush was capable of a 1200 score.

For that matter, what's the highest number of points achievable on the SAT nowadays? I don't even know if that's changed over the years because it's just not something that has anything to do with my life anymore.
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