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The thing that gets me on both sides of the "war on Xmas" issue

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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:54 PM
Original message
The thing that gets me on both sides of the "war on Xmas" issue
is that I just don't see it as important enough to distract us from real issues that affect people every day. The war, the economy, health care.

It strikes me as a RW ploy to keep their minions all angry and up in arms over something so that they won't notice as the Republicans do things that are against their self-interest.

And if we get all up in arms about it too, we are only playing into the distraction. You know what I mean.

Someone will say it's a both/and instead of an and/or proposition, but I just can't get worked up about whether or not a nativity should be at City Hall or if somebody says Merry Christmas or not.

Anyone else know what I mean?
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes. Sorry to see yet ANOTHER thread on this nonsense.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yeah well. Excuse me for expresssing myself
But whatever.

I didn't complain about the number of threads on the issue. Just that it is even an issue, a view I haven't seen expressed much.

So there you have it.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I was agreeing with your point "we are only playing into the distraction"
That I am sorry to see yet ANOTHER thread on this nonsense was MY opinion.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I'm sorry. I'm alittle touchy I guess. No worries
Bah freakin' humbug ;)
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. you got it in one
Funny, but except here I haven't heard much about this-though the Springfield MO station said they would be having a feature on the "Merry Christmas" bracelets on their ten o'clock news report last night. If someone wishes me Merry Christmas, I say "Same to you", and leave it like that.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. You're making the classic blunder
There is no war on Christmas.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Exactly.
History of the War on Christmas Meme-

"In 1959, the recently formed John Birch Society issued an urgent alert: Christmas was under attack. In a JBS pamphlet titled "There Goes Christmas?!" a writer named Hubert Kregeloh warned, "One of the techniques now being applied by the Reds to weaken the pillar of religion in our country is the drive to take Christ out of Christmas -- to denude the event of its religious meaning." The central front in this perfidious assault was American department stores, where the "Godless UN" was scheming to replace religious decorations with internationalist celebrations of universal brotherhood.
"The UN fanatics launched their assault on Christmas in 1958, but too late to get very far before the holy day was at hand," the pamphlet explained. "They are already busy, however, at this very moment, on efforts to poison the 1959 Christmas season with their high-pressure propaganda. What they now want to put over on the American people is simply this: Department stores throughout the country are to utilize UN symbols and emblems as Christmas decorations."

<snip>

And she also goes back even further, earlier than the John Birch Society, to the viciously anti-semitic Henry Ford, who blamed it all on Jews:

Gibson, of course, is not the first to connect the dots. The John Birch Society wasn't, either. As the Web site News Hounds pointed out last year, Henry Ford was sounding the alarm about the war on Christmas in his notorious 1921 tract "The International Jew." "The whole record of the Jewish opposition to Christmas, Easter and other Christian festivals, and their opposition to certain patriotic songs, shows the venom and directness of attack," Ford wrote. He listed local outrages: "Christmas celebrations or carols in Philadelphia, Cincinnati, St. Paul and New York met with strong Jewish opposition ... Local Council of Jewish Women of Baltimore petitions school board to prohibit Christmas exercises ... The Council of the University Settlement, at the request of the New York Kehillah , adopts this resolution: 'That in the holiday celebrations held annually by the Kindergarten Association at the University Settlement every feature of any sectarian character, including Christmas trees, Christmas programs and Christmas songs, shall be eliminated.'"
To compare today's "war on Christmas" demagogues to Henry Ford is not to call them anti-Semites. Rather, they are purveyors of a conspiracy theory that repeatedly crops up in America. The malefactors change -- Jews, the U.N., the ACLU -- but the outlines stay the same. The scheme is always massive, reaching up to the highest levels of power.

<snip>

In fact, there is no war on Christmas. What there is, rather, is a burgeoning myth of a war on Christmas, assembled out of old reactionary tropes, urban legends, exaggerated anecdotes and increasingly organized hostility to the American Civil Liberties Union. It's a myth that can be self-fulfilling, as school board members and local politicians believe the false conservative claim that they can't celebrate Christmas without getting sued by the ACLU and thus jettison beloved traditions, enraging citizens and perpetuating a potent culture-war meme. This in turn furthers the myth of an anti-Christmas conspiracy.

<snip>

The entire "War on Christmas" meme is nothing more than naked demagoguery. It's utter nonsense, peddled by the dishonest to the credulous and the ignorant, people eager to cast themselves as victims of persecution. That eagerness is easily manipulated by those who want to keep the donations flowing by whipping up the emotions of the easily conned.

http://www.stcynic.com/blog/archives/2005/11/history_of_the_war_on_christma.php

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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Then why have people been gleefully announcing
that when someone says "Merry Christmas" they go out of their way to either correct or say "Why do you assume I'm a Christian" or somesuch. Why make it an issue, war or not?

I think both sides have sticks up their butts, the ones who think there is a war, and the ones who get offended by the words "Merry Christmas."
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Democrats_win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. Shhh! Don't spoil the Conservative's secret weapon!
That's what they always do. Whether it's the war on drugs, war against terror, war on educators, the Republican culture of fear relies on people who don't question if the problem REALLY exists.

No, Virginia, there is no war on Christmas, in fact the opposite. For the first time in 31 years there was a christian-themed float in Denver's parade of lights.

However, the church next to me will once again not have a christmas service, apparently so that the members can spend time with their families. Now who, if anyone, is REALLY taking Christ out of Christmas?
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BJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. and it's a great fundraiser!
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PeterPuck Donating Member (65 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. I never thought there was until this year
It is only in the past couple of years (since 9-11) that all of this war on Christmas stuff has really taken off. White Christians now feel threatened by other religions and feel they have the right to be rude to any other group.

Last year it was the attack on people saying Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas. I am Catholic, I say Happy Holidays since it is usually said to mean the time around Christmas and New Years... time off work... etc... Many people see it that way and see the kooks who were fighting for Christmas as what they were. It was sad to hear some of the stories... cashiers were being yelled at and made to cry (by supposed Christians) because they did not say Merry Christmas.

I have never once heard a non-Christian get offended because someone said the word Christmas.

This year seems different. There seems to be an effort by some big retailers to rename Christmas trees to Holiday trees. Is that really necessary? It seems like something new but maybe it is just now being noticed.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. It was a brilliant RW ploy
They excel at it. Create a fake talking point, reel in the suckers and make them think they're discussing an IMPORTANT issue - while Corporatists keep govt marching along as usual.



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BJW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. check this out
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ucmike Donating Member (999 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. you can point out the hypocrisy and make people aware
i try not to get too deeply into this, but this issue is useful to point out to people how their opinions are formed and the methods used to create distractions. its a good stepping off point to make people look at issues critically and objectively and to understand how perception is carefully manipulated to disguise fact. if you can engage someone and point out how much crap is rolled up in the "war on christmas", you can nudge them toward looking critically at the war, at advertising, at the role of corporations in our society, at the war on terror, etc.

the rw "war on christmas" is a perfect example of how a few people with an agenda can manipulate a large segment of the population with a few well placed words and carefully pushed buttons. by debunking psuedo-facts and anecdotal examples, and pointing out the methods used to spread them you can do a lot to make people see through the bs and to recognize bs in other issues.




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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. what two sides?
There aren't two sides in the total bullshit war on christmas. The only people having a war are rightwing nutcases.

Happy holidays.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Okay.
Merry Christmas.
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A Simple Game Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-09-05 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Well, just a few words.
And you got it exactly right.

Short and to the point.
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