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Message to Righties we are coming for your guns

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DeBunk Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 12:37 PM
Original message
Message to Righties we are coming for your guns
One day there will be a Democratic President. And, some day those 50 guns in your safe may be illegal.

If Conservatives care about the 2nd amendment, or the 4th, or any other amendment they would stand with us against the usurpation of Congressional power by the executive.

Allowing the precedent of Presidential power to spy on Americans without a court order could hurt you more then us.
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The Doctor. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Actually, this administration has been working at subverting the 2nd
for quite sometime now;

The worst of the Bush record, though, is in the courts. Bush appointee Judge Reggie B. Walton, of the D.C. District Court, tells us that the Second Amendment is not an individual right in Seegars v. Ashcroft. The Bush Administration opposed Supreme Court review of U.S. v. Emerson, with Assistant U.S. Attorney William B. Majeta claiming in open court that there is no individual Constitutional right to own firearms, the result of the Bush Administration's actions being that Dr. Tim Emerson was convicted of merely possessing a firearm while under a customary restraining order issued during his divorce. And Bush's Solicitor General, Ted Olson, aggressively prosecuted the case of U.S. v. Thomas Lamar Bean, permanently stripping Bean of his Second Amendment rights, merely for accidentally carrying a box of .22 shells across the Mexican border.

Despite what Republicans may say, George W. Bush has shown that rather than being a protector of the Second Amendment, he is yet another statist enemy of the right to bear arms. Maybe conscientious gun owners can't vote for Kerry because of what Kerry might do as President, but it is definitely the case that gun owners can't vote for Bush, because of the damage that Bush has already done as President.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/powell1.html
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newswolf56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Thank you for the post. Bush on firearms is typical Bush/Goebbels...
two-facedness, most obvious by his support for the 2003 Our Lady of Peace Act, which if enacted would have branded everyone with a psychiatric condition (however brief or mild) as a "mental defective" and on that basis forever denied them firearms possession.

Given that as many as half of all Americans will at sometime during their lives be afflicted with a mental disorder -- anything from grief reactions to full blown psychosis -- this was back-door disarmament at its most draconian: as in New York City today, the minute you saw a mental health professional of any kind you'd be forcibly and permanently disarmed, your guns taken without compensation. This was not only supported by Bush but by the entire Republican apparatus, demonstrating the corporate oligarchy's real intent.

New Orleans demonstrated that too: the original reports of gun confiscations there all said the orders came from the federal government, but corporate media has since conveniently flushed that story down the Orwellian commode. Likewise Attorney General Gonzales' opposition to civilian firearms ownership: reported by The Washington Post when Bush first announced the appointment but quickly thereafter swept under the rug.

Perhaps if the encroachment of poverty, wage slavery and economic collapse forces more Democrats to re-acquaint themselves with the history of the Labor and Civil Rights movements -- not to mention the Back-to-the-Land Movement of the late 1960s and the 1970s -- they will recognize the historical truth behind the slogan: "Real Leftists Own Guns."


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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Confusing way to frame the issue, but I agree.
If they won't stand up with us now to protest the illegal monitoring of American citizens, their rights to gun ownership could very well be weakened in the future. They're part and parcel of the same issue - the government's increased violations of our civil rights in the name of "safety".
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DeBunk Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. "Confusing way to frame the issue"
I feel we need to put things in terms that even a child could understand.

Their man love for Bush clouds their thinking.
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
4. The gun rights issue has played out in a very interesting way.
If guns are kept by the extreme Right Wing terrorist groups and White Supremacist or militia groups, or distributed in mass for profit to criminals to murder people, then gun control is obviously a good idea.

But when the federal executive declares war on dissent, the open society, freedom of information, government oversight, individual rights (of non extremist-Right Wing groups), then gun control takes a different turn.

Doesn't it?
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justabob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. People forget
that the Bill of Rights is our protection, not against terrorists or foreign invaders, but against our own government. The 2nd ammendment is our means of enforcing/protecting our rights.
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DeBunk Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Whole heartedly agree
I don't own guns. And, I am not a gun rights advocate.

But, I don't think that is relevant here. I am just as ready to stand up for your right to feel secure in your personal space as I am to stand up for my freedom of speech.
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dusmcj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 01:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. count on a large part of the gun public agreeing with you
Edited on Sat Dec-17-05 01:04 PM by dusmcj
drop the stereotypes of toothless Bush-loving idiots, and head out there onto the political forums of the gun boards on the internet. You will find a level of concern at least equal to that evinced here. There are the usual Bush apologists, but they now get shouted down with "are you serious ? Baah, you're a sheeple too" most of the time that they crop up. The tides are changing, and political realignments are taking place, only this time not manufactured by Poppy's administration. Be prepared to receive our brethren in Principle with an open heart and a willingness to work for the best interest of what we all love and speak and act in concern for, this country.

Oh, and if you don't already, go shooting sometime, you'll probably have a great time. Most people who try it do.
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DeBunk Donating Member (435 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-17-05 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Feingolds coalition against the patriot act made that clear
Larry Craig, R-Idaho joinded Feingold, he sits on the board of the NRA.
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