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woodcutter Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 10:13 AM
Original message
My Repug friend Tom e-mailed me.
He was attempting to support b*sh and the Iraq war. He was comparing this war to all the recent ones in America and boasting that only 39 American soldiers lives were being lost per week. Do you think he'll know how I feel after reading my reply?


Oh you knew I'd write back. That 39 lives lost fact has one major flaw. How many Iraqi lives are lost in that same period? If we are truly there to give the Iraqis freedom and a democratic way of life, then we have to count them as war dead also. They are the people we are trying to free, not the enemy. bush has so little regard for them, that he doesn't even keep a tally of their dead. That figure he spewed on tv the other day of 30,000 Iraqis dead is woefully underestimated. Even the conservative figures kept by independent organizations estimate the true number to be well over 100,000 Iraqi civilians dead.
And Tom your too smart to fall for these right wing talking points. Just because there's less American lives lost than previous wars doesn't make it any more right. Comparing wars is like comparing serial killers. Because Ted Bundy killed less women than the Green River Killer in Seattle, does that make Ted Bundy any more justified? Of course not. If one of the Iraq War casualties was one of your daughters, would you still feel the urgent need to be there? When bush admitted that there were no weapons of mass destruction and his intelligence was flawed, then the next conclusion is that his reasons for going to war were bogus. If you had to bury one of your daughters coming home from there, would you question our purpose over there? I think you would be remiss as a parent NOT to question why we are there.
If bush liberated Afghanistan, why is the Taliban still working out of there? I saw in the paper yesterday that the Taliban executed a school teacher there for teaching girls. That doesn't sound like a very liberated country to me. Perhaps if more of our troops had stayed there instead of attacking a country that never posed a threat to us or anybody else, then Afghanistan might really be free.
And you seem to be claiming Iraq as a victory also. Remember the big banner on the aircraft carrier, Mission Accomplished. If the mission was accomplished, why are we still there losing, by your statistics, 39 lives a week? Just what does victory in Iraq look like, Tom. Will someone explain to me what a victory over there is going to look like? How will we know when we have achieved victory? Will it be when we're only losing 20 lives a week? Will it be when we're not losing any lives at all? If that's the case, then we will be there for decades according to the retired Generals reports. Our troops are acting as policemen over there now. That's not what they were trained to do. They have become the enemy. They are the targets. They can't win. They can't kill every citizen that approaches them on the street. But how do they tell who is friend and foe? Put yourself in their place. How the Hell can we win in a situation like that? I want someone to tell me. bush still doesn't have an exit strategy. After all the recent speeches, we're still getting the same old rhetoric. He throws the key words around, victory, democracy, after 9-11, but no one has explained when or how we are supposed to be able to bring our troops home. So they keep getting killed at an average of 39 per week,( your statistics).
I don't know about you Tom, but I'm not comfortable with 39 deaths a week. To me that's 39 more mostly young American lives lost than needs to be. The chances of that place getting a real democracy are pretty slim according to the experts on Mideast affairs. The best we can hope for is some kind of government like they have in Egypt which is horribly corrupt and abusive to minorities and women. I know firsthand about Egypt, I worked with an Egyptian fellow for over a year. He refuses to go back to his homeland because conditions there are so bad. Poor economy, civil rights abuses, poverty. People still disappear in the middle of the night never to be seen again.
You'll never convince me that we didn't go in there to set Big Oil up in business. bush and cheney are just too cozy with Corporate Oil Companies for my comfort. I just heard a report on NPR last week explaining the deal that the American Oil Companies have set up with the interim government in Iraq. The American Companies are going to control the sale of the oil to foreign countries. This goes on in other places as well, so that's not anything out of the ordinary. BUT, in Iraq, the percentage of profits that the American companies are going to get is enormous compared to what they get elsewhere. In other countries with a similar setup, the controlling company usually takes about 5 percent off the top. But in Iraq, they are going to take 45% right off the top! Does that strike you as a bit extravagant? Perhaps some might call greedy. Doesn't this bring into question our original purpose for invading the country in the first place? Do you remember the first few days of the actual invasion? Remember the first places that were secured? It was the oil fields in the South of Iraq. I'm sorry Tom. You can spew all the rhetoric that you want about democracy and freedom. But the facts are there.
Sadaam's own neighbors have agreed that he did NOT pose a threat to anyone. The U.N. sanctions had him thwarted. They were working. His citizens were starving because of the blockades and sanctions on them. By the way, a small sidenote here. Guess where Sadaam got the chemicals that he used to kill the Kurds back 15 years ago? He brokered a deal with Donald Rumsfeld. Who was working for the first bush back then. Yes, our own country provided him with chemical weapons, that he ended up using on his own people. That's one reason that Washington was so sure he had chemical weapons. Because we were the ones that sold them to him! Ain't that a scream. Sadaam was at war with Iran, who was our enemy at the time. So we supported him bigtime back then. In fact, we overlooked all of his atrocities back then. Politics makes for strange bedfellows doesn't it? Anyway, the fact that we overran the country in the first few days should tell you that he wasn't a threat to anybody. There was barely an army still together. Our soldiers couldn't find anybody to fight until they got to Bagdad. Sadaams army was mostly disbanded before we ever got there. Does that sound like a country capable of nuclear attacks on the U.S.? I'm afraid not.
bush has admitted that the intelligence for going to war was bad. But he doesn't care. Because they were just looking for an excuse to set their Big Oil cronies up in business over there anyway. He has been using American lives to further the greedy wants of him and his friends. He Will burn in Hell for his actions. As well as cheney and rumsfeld and others. But how long will this country put up with such a greedy tyrant in power is the question. If you have been paying attention lately, his administration is coming unraveled. The majority of our citizens are finally beginning to see the truth. This is the most corrupt administration that has been in the White House in our lifetimes, Tom. bush's own advisors have broken the law in lying to a grand jury and outing a CIA agent. dick cheney allowed the big energy companies to write the laws governing our country's energy policy. Tom Delay, republican majority leader in the House of Representatives is under indictment for money laundering and breaking campaign finance laws. Bill Frist, the Senate Majority leader is being investigated for questionable stock sales and insider trading, the same thing that Martha Stewart went to prison for. And when this Jack Abramof scandal breaks open next year, you are going to see Repugs dropping like flies. And let's not forget the latest infringment on our rights that King george has inflicted on us. Illegal wiretaps of U.S. citizens. Hundreds if not thousands he has signed off on. And the argument that these are necesary for our protection is bullshit. I can't state it any better than Ben Franklin did back in the 1700s: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
The American people are fed up. I'm surprised that you, Tom, are still supporting bush. Many of his staunch supporters are seeing the light. The man has done more harm to this country than the terrorists could have hoped to do. He has trompled our civil liberties and ignored the basic laws of our constitution. He has made us the most hated nation in the world. Anti-Americanism is at an all time high. His energy policies and lack thereof have made the cost of gas the highest it has ever been in this country. Instead of placing a windfall profits tax on Big Oil to force the price down, he has done nothing and let them record their biggest profits in history. His failed foreign policies have killed over 100,000 civilian lives and wasted over 2,000 American lives in an illegal invasion of a soverign nation that posed no threat to anyone. With no end in sight, I might add. His realigning of the FEMA administration left the agency so weak that they couldn't respond to one of our largest disasters in the history of this country in New Orleans. I don't know about you Tom, but seeing dead citizens floating in the streets of one of our major cities wasn't what I expected as an emergency response from my government. And I don't give a damn what color they were or what their income was, they were U.S. citizens with the same rights as you and me. bush has run up the largest debt in the history of our nation. But at the same time refuses to rescind the tax cuts to the wealthiest 10% to help alleviate that debt. Do you realize that that debt is so large that your grandchildren will still be paying it off? What kind of a legacy is that to leave to the next generations? bush has the worst record on the environment of any president in modern times. He has gutted the EPA. They no longer bring new legal cases up against corporations that break our environmental laws. He lets these companies govern themselves, which has resulted in our air and water being more contaminated than when he took office. He refuses to believe in global warming, although the evidence is abundant throughout the world. So therefore he refuses to make corporations adhere to any kind of emmisions standards to reduce the output of greenhouse gasses. We are the only industrialized country in the world that is not working toward less air polution on a worldwide basis. He tried to gut the social security funds, but even his own party wouldn't let him do that. They know they have to get re-elected, even if he doesn't. I'm sure I've overlooked some of his negative influences on this country and our world, but that is just a few of them. And those are facts, Tom. I haven't even listed any that are suspect or we don't have proof of. He is probably doing a whole lot of harmful things behind the scenes that no one is aware of at this time.
But there is hope, Tom. In spite of having the most incompetent leader in the free world running our country, there is real hope now. Americans are fed up. Next November they are going to throw the bums out. The House of Representatives and Senate will change from Repug majority to a Democrat majority. Then we will see some justice. Impeachment proceedings can begin. And we will see this failed corporate whore exposed for the incompetent greedy self centered tyrant that he really is.So far, he has broken way more laws than Richard Nixon even thought about. The only thing saving his ass is that the Repugs are controlling both houses. That will all change next November. Even though it has been proven that they rigged several elections in several states, there will be a landslide of pissed off people hitting the polls next year. Even their rigged electronic voting machines won't be able to bail them out this time. Many counties and states are outlawing the Diebold machines now. Because it has been proven that they are not accurate, and leave no paper trail. There's a new day coming. Our Democracy was created with enough checks and balances to prevent a tyrant from ruling us like a dictator. And it's audit time. Stand up and be counted. You're either for the Democratic way of government and the betterment of the quality of life for everyone, or you can support the greedy corporate whore and his cronies that want to turn us into a third world country and destroy the middle class. Either work with us to change this country for the better, or get in line and drink your kool-aid and shut up. I personally don't drink kool-aid and I ain't standing in any f*cking line.
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yankeedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Little long imo
but not bad. Remember, cons didn't get to be cons by doing a lot of reading. I would have replied back by saying how many people have to die until it is a disaster?
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. You mean...
former friend?:hide:
They don't take kindly to having the actual
truth shoved in their face!
Good for you for trying to set him straight!
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
3. Tone Down The Rhetoric
At first, you made some great points, but then it started getting into what Conservatives (and some Moderates) will only see as more anti-war, anti-Bush rhetoric - thus they will tune out & forget the key points of your message. Your emotion becomes apparent.
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woodcutter Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yes, it is wordy.
I apologize for that. But I don't think he has any unbiased news sources, so I had to get him up to date. He is a friend. I grew up with him. He'll remain a friend regardless of who he supports. But I loathe this poor excuse of a president for dividing our country and creating wedges between the citizens. I probably won't change his mind, but he'll see how passionate I am about it and we'll agree to disagree. There's a new day coming.
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Your reply may be wordy
Edited on Sun Dec-18-05 10:46 AM by senseandsensibility
and your friend may not want to read it all, let alone be swayed by it. But that being said, I applaud you for trying. Too many of us have given up trying to communicate with * supporters. You did your best at a thankless job. And your friend will at least know that there are good people out there, people he respects (like you), who are against this war and this "president." That's important. Oh, and welome to DU!:hi:
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-18-05 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. Welcome to DU
Good stuff in there.

I suggest you use some whitespace to make it easier to follow, especially reading it off the screen.

Personally, I lose patience reading big blocks of gray. Sorry to be didactic.

--IMM
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