Something doesn't make sense about the NSA revelation.

As per the UKUSA agreement the United States farms out it's signals intelligence gathering to other UKUSA countries, like Canada, Great Britain, Australia and New Zealand. It is illegal for U.S. intelligence organizations to spy on U.S. citizens but they were getting around that by getting other countries to do it for them then trading information. Why all of a sudden have the NSA do it directly?

Because it's a black op that in fact, didn't involve international communications and couldn't be entrusted to actual law enforcement agencies?

covered by ECHELON, people who might actually be involved with terrorism or even organized crime. It's abundantly clear that Stupid insisted on bypassing ECHELON and a rubber stamp court because he wanted to spy on American citizens who had absolutely nothing to do with terrorism or crime, like members of Congress, judges, Democratic party officials, and businessmen who had contributed to Democratic candidates, not to mention antiwar activists. This was one gigantic fishing expedition trying to dig up personal dirt on innocent people to use to blackmail them into silence.

How do I know this? Remember, I'm OLD. I lived through Nixon, and he did the same damned thing.

They put a few easily ignored reforms into place then neglected to do anything that would enforce those reforms. All they needed was an arrogant and paranoid SOB in office who thinks he's above the law.

This time, we have to make sure the consequences are fully faced. A pardon after an impeachment or resignation won't do it. We've been paying the price of Nixon's pardon for many years now, and may continue to do so for many years in the future unless the primacy of law is reasserted.

trained?

their phone conversation, and the company had been outsourced, that the government could turn around and say it wasn't actually done by the U.S., kind of like the twisted logic that if we brought detainees overseas to have others do the torture, then it wasn't really done by us either?

The UKUSA Agreement is only between the US and Great Britain. The Brits have the exact same regulations we do under this Agreement, which means they have a law prohibiting spying on your allies.

Canada, Australia and New Zealand are in the Five Powers Agreement. This Agreement also requires regulations paralleling ours.

The "A" in UKUSA stands for Australia, not "America".

recall, Bush picked up all his Bin Laden buddies and Saudi friends and flew them out of the country. That's a far cry from trying to listen in on their phone calls legally or illegally.