Isnt it ok for a soldier to disobey an order they know is illegal ?

Not that the Senate is the military, but the same concept, I feel applies.

If someone with a high level of security clearance, who is sworn to secrecy, discovers an illegality, I believe they are bound by law to breach their secrecy in some cases, cases that don't directly jearpordize lives.

Am I right or wrong here?

but it seems to me there would be an ethical requirement to try to expose an illegal plan to spy on the american people ...

that is my understanding from the discussions I've heard. That's how Nazis were prosecuted after WWII, even though they claimed they were just good soldiers following orders.

...To obey an Illegal order. And they don't have any buy-out for "I thought it was legal" or "I was ordered to do it."

People forget that. I was a Senior USN Petty Officer. I don't forget it.

was on the Geneva Convention, legal and illegal orders. The drill sergeants, who just hours before were instilling in us the importance of unquestioning obedience to their orders, were stating emphatically that a good soldier MUST disobey an illegal order. Lt. William Calley's name was mentioned several times. They also said there should be no doubts about what constitutes an illegal order. "Take these unarmed prisoners-of-war over to that ditch and shoot them all." is a pretty clear-cut example of an illegal order. They made it clear to all of us trainees that a soldier has a legal, ethical and moral obligation to disobey illegal orders.

When the whole Lynndie England/Abu Ghraib thing surfaced, I just had to ask myself: "Didn't they get the same training I got?"

The military is infamous for giving/requiring soldiers not to follow unlawful orders, but not giving them permission to question orders or face court martial. Nice catch-22 they've got going on there. The last thing they want are intelligent soldiers questioning orders. Wars can't be fought very efficiently that way.

It's a joke when the regime has compliant fascists with law degrees like a mafia family has consiglieres. There's not a snowball's chance in hell that any uniformed grunt would get away with refusing to do something that White House lawyers said was OK. Torture? Secret imprisonment? You name it.

The singular is consigliere. Sorry, couldn't help myself. Knew you would understand.
The Professor

:D

:silly:

Cannoli is the plural. Cannolo is the singular. Ok, ok, i'll stop now.
The Professor

can·no·li
n. pl. can·no·lis

A fried pastry roll with a sweet creamy filling.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cannoli

It's our word and we'll make the rules!
The Professor

:silly: :dunce:

"Well, its more like "No! No! Please! No!"

I'm hitting alert on you two! Alert, alert, alert. Oh wait. I started it. Never mind.
The Professor

:D

(And I have relatives in Brooklyn that bring the "good" cannoli up on holidays.
Mmmmmmmmmmm, cannoli.... agggggggggggg </Homer_Voice> )

Me too. I'm half siciliano and half calabrezzo. I can speak the language at probably about the level of a 10 year old. Oddly enough, i could probably speak at better than a 10 year old level WHEN I WAS 10 YEARS OLD! I forgot a whole lot until i started traveling to Italy on business and forced myself to bring it back into the front of the brain.

Anyway, bienvenuti e ciao.
The Professor

:dunce:

I'll let that one go, since it said i would stop. But, boy am i busting a vessel.
The Professor

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

(Note to self: Don't say "grazi" to il professore.)

The Professor

If you disobey and order, and it turns out the order was legal, then you are in deep trouble. All soldiers know this. And remember, this is an all volunteer military, so they want to be in and are less likely to be whistle blowers.

The Senate makes the laws (In conjunction the house and the POTUS) so their laws are assumed legal unless overturned by the Federal judiciary. So your whistle blower has to hope the supremes see things the way he does.

If soldiers were allowed to question orders for legal, moral, or humane reasons, in real life, wars would be damned near impossible. Most people don't like killing other people no matter how much the politicians and generals how necessary or "fun" it is.