What do I do to support unions? Walk 140 blocks! Go brothers & sisters!

Gotta walk to class on 21st street from 91st st. But it's worth it.

Why should it be illegal for these workers to strike?

Do you have any case law that supports your view that it's unconstitutional ?

vices?

No one has shown me this. What of the $1,000,000 surplus?

but it's not the strongest argument.

The essential one is that the union is bypassing the well-defined procedures for dealing with disputes covered by the law. The union leaders should be fined and jailed - assuming the courts issue an injunction and the union does not respect it.

ed?

I don't get it. Ambulances are still running. Firetrucks are still out there. The police are out in force. Put them in jail - screw the workers.

I understand that it prohibits public employees from striking but I don't think its right. I guess the union has to take whatever the MTA says, whether they think it's fair on not.

And the answer is I have very briefly done so. I wouldn;t challenge your view without having done so.

Here, give a summary a go:

http://www.goer.state.ny.us/cna/bucenter/taylor.html

the City and the MTA in an advantage. These are not criminals - they are working class people.

seeking to avoid damage to the public - which, of course, is paying for those services and are the 'stockholders' of the government. It's the fudiciary duty of the MTA and its officials to act in the public's interest.

There are steps to be taken that are well defined and the union appears to be abrogating their responsibility to do so. If they refuse to do so - which would presumably be imposed by an injunction - then they make themselves into lawbreakers with appropriate sanctions applicable.

which is, in this case, the illegality of the strike.

SO, I assume that you don't have a defense and that you have conceded the point.

Thank you for your participation.

know how else to say it and I'm not being condescending the way you are.

but i assume it's the same dick who's been spouting the same shit aLL day Long. :shrug:

man Reagan to start off the morning...

Yum

Rather or not the strike meets the corporate/government definition of illegal is immaterial.

I don't' give a fucking rat's ass about the law in this case any more than I would support Jim Crow laws.

I support the union workers; they have a RIGHT to work or not to work.

SOLIDARITY FOREVER!

accept the legal consequences of threir actions with a goal to change the applicable laws.

So I accept their sense of civil disobiediance but you also need to note that they are violating a contract they signed not to strike as a condition of (public) employment.

Administration Of The Taylor Law

The New York State Public Employment Relations Board (PERB) was created as an independent, neutral agency to administer the Taylor Law. The three member Board is appointed by the Governor, with the consent of the State

once again America will be able to hold its head high as a beacon of hope and freedom

isnt a corporation it is a public entity.

then they need to accept the consequences. Call it civil disobiediance if you like - but such peoplle accept the consequences of their actions.

AT best, a strike is only justified when all the provisions for settlement in the law have been exhausted. Clearly not satisfied in this case.

jailing labor leaders is one of them.

There are no limits to their behavior ?

Who do they think they are, POTUS ?

Just wow.

when "progressive" Democrats called for jailing labor leaders

actually

Between this and the death penalty crap, I think I'm tunneling even farther into bizarro world.

My personal experience with Unions is that they are extremely reluctant to strike and they only do so when they FEEL as if all avenues have been exhausted. There obviously are times when you can file appeals and go through arbitration... but what if YOU KNOW the system is stacked against you? My partner is a Union leader who's still waiting on Retro pay from her work 2 years ago. Her contract has been signed, but not funded (state employee)Many times contract negotiations for the next 3 years or so start at the beginning of the first 3 year contract... it is a constant and demanding struggle. You should know that since the 80's Unions have been hamstrung precisely because of the law and their constaints on Union activity. All that said, i am not aware of this particular strike or what in fact proved the tipping point. Anyone got any links?

I have read some posts, both supportive and non supportive of this strike, and I must say this strike seems to be justified. It sounds like the powers that be are being capricious in their discipline and even when Union members win grievances, they are still targeted for retribution by the bosses. Now I am admittedly not in NYC and probably won't be in the future, but I am just going by what some insiders are saying. Speaking from experience, we rarely want to go on strike, but it is the only weapon working men and women have to make a point. I support my Union brothers and Sisters in this case. If any Union leaders are jailed because of this, this may strike a near fatal blow to all municipal Unions across America, if not all Unions everywhere. We cannot let the big businesses get away with this. And the city of New York is a big business.

When it's about bailing out the airlines whose executives collect millions and whose workers are laid off, the taxpayers shell out BILLIONS! When it's about fair labor compensation for an "essential" service, the only bail is from jail?

Unfreakingreal! Disgusting. :puke:

I just watched Northwest Airlines essentially bust the mechanics union. Note, the executive class within NWA make many times more per year than the rank and file mechanics that they busted.

People have to find alternative ways to work? OMG, the world is going to collapse:eyes: Sorry, but welcome to the world outside of NYC. My nearest metropolitan area, St. Louis, has piss poor public transport, and guess what, it is often a two hour plus commute from 'burbs to the city. So people get up earlier, carpool, etc. etc. It isn't chaotic, though it does such, and the city doesn't seem to suffer any economic harm. I understand NYC residents have become used to having a top notch public transport system, but gee, buck up and cope with it.

We bitch and moan around here about how organized labor is losing ground, yet when it is called for people to stand by their brothers and sisters in labor, whine, whine, whine. Geez! Give it a break, I thought this city was supposed to be unflappable.

You folks are blessed with a fine public transport system, one that is the envy of the rest of the nation. Don't you think that it would be wise to pony up a bit of money from that billion dollar surplus that the MTA has in order to keep workers happy and the trains running on time? Besides, if you have to go out on strike you're going to want some public support also, so you have to give some to get some.

everything seems ok.

I just wish that we had NYC's public transport out here. Instead, St. Louis, KC and other large Midwest cities deal with total chaos every day.

However, we had the benefit of a fire burning nearly everything to the ground, so planning it was easier than with standing cities.

Up from 1.50 a couple of years ago or a 33% increase. Try telling people on a minimum wage that they aren't paying enough for their services.

I would take it farther than that. According to what i heard,at midnight bus loads of people were kicked off the bus, and left stranded, in dangerously cold weather and unfamiliar neighborhoods. I would file charges of reckless endangerment against any driver who did that.

yep.

But if they did abandon their passengers, as i heard on CNN this morning, then charges should be filed.

can you cite the relevant ny state, city, township, county or other statute that deals with this?

if it even happened.

i guess if CNN said it, it must be true.

i wish i used smilies, because the puking one seems a propos.

Start here.

http://wings.buffalo.edu/law/bclc/web/NewYork/ny3(a)(1)-.htm

scroll down to section 120.20

are you trained as an attorney?

were you "abandoned" by the bus? do you live in NYC? know anyone that this happened to?

No, i'm a retired peace officer.


section 120.20 A person is guilty of reckless endangerment in the 2nd degree, when he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury of another person.
A misdemeanor offense.

Section 120.25.
If that negligence results in death, it's a felony.

a common carrier from that liability. that is, when you are talking about booting passengers off a bus. i can't see any damage that would arise from that.

the purchase of a fare or ticket does not constitute a contract.

although a driver or operator can be criminally liable (if they are drunk or driving recklessly).

but this is largely just wheel spinning, because i don't believe this in all likelihood happened.

and no, i'm not attorney, i just play one on t.v.

I can.
Hypothermia. I once had a deputy that was dispatched to check out a individual walking in the bar ditch, on the east side of the County, at 1:20 AM. The deputy, instead of taking the man (who was drunk, and trying to walk to the neighboring town, in 20 degree weather)to the Salvation Army where he could get a meal and a bed,he decided to take him to the other side of the County and release him. They found the man 2 days later, about 3 miles farther down the road, dead in a culvert. He froze to death. The deputy was brought up on Reckless endangerment charges, convicted and received 6 years probation ( i wanted hard time ), and permanently lost his TX Peace Officers Certification.

I can't believe that happened, TX RAT. They were promising that they would not abandon anyone riding the transportation. Plus, they didn't agree to finally strike until three thirty in the morning. So, midnight came and went without knowing whether there would be a strike. If that did happen (which I don't believe) it would have not been a "strike" venture, as the strike was not declared until much later than midnight.

Especially considering that the call for a strike went out at three am, well after midnight. Also, every report I've read, seen and heard contradicts your whole premise. I suggest that what you heard is a smear job intended to make the union look bad and discredit the strike.

it was against union policy. even toussaint said that the workers should finish their routes and not leave a single rider stranded. if a driver did indeed kick people off and violate their own union rules they should be fired.

how about the legality of that?

YES!!!!!! Go For It!!!!!

I'll Walk Until I Drop!

Do you think the union is doing this for fun?

I do think it's out of their own self-interest. That's not illegal or immoral either.

But the strike is illegal.

including the public's.

What are your objections ?

Why, if public employees are permitted to unionize, are they alone forbidden to strike? It makes no sense.

Government employment is not a right.

Your attempted use of the First Amendment is specious. Striking is not a speech or assembly issue.

MURPHY, J., Opinion of the Court

SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

310 U.S. 88

Thornhill v. Alabama
CERTIORARI TO THE COURT OF APPEALS OF ALABAMA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No. 514 Argued: February 29, 1940 --- Decided: April 22, 1940



http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0310_0088_ZO.html


In the circumstances of our times, the dissemination of information concerning the facts of a labor dispute must be regarded as within that area of free discussion that is guaranteed by the Constitution. Hague v. CIO, 307 U.S. 496; Schneider v. State, 308 U.S. 147, 155, 162-63. See Senn v. Tile Layers Union, 301 U.S. 468, 478. It is recognized now that satisfactory hours and wages and working conditions in industry and a bargaining position which makes these possible have an importance which is not less than the interests of those in the business or industry directly concerned. The health of the present generation and of those as yet unborn may depend on these matters, and the practices in a single factory may have economic repercussions upon a whole region and affect widespread systems of marketing. The merest glance at state and federal legislation on the subject demonstrates the force of the argument that labor relations are not matters of mere local or private concern. Free discussion concerning the conditions in industry and the causes of labor disputes appears to us indispensable to the effective and intelligent use of the processes of popular government to shape the destiny of modern industrial society. The issues raised by regulations, such as are challenged here, infringing upon the right of employees effectively to inform the public of the facts of a labor dispute, are part of this larger problem. We concur in the observation of Mr. Justice Brandeis, speaking for the Court in Senn's case (301 U.S. at 478):

Members of a union might, without special statutory authorization by a State, make known the facts of a labor dispute, for freedom of speech is guaranteed by the Federal Constitution.

It is true that the rights of employers and employees to conduct their economic affairs and to compete with others for a share in the products of industry are subject to modification or qualification in the interests of the society in which they exist. This is but an instance of the power of the State to set the limits of permissible contest open to industrial combatants. See Mr. Justice Brandeis in 254 U.S. at 488. It does not follow that the State, in dealing with the evils arising from industrial disputes, may impair the effective exercise of the right to discuss freely industrial relations which are matters of public concern. A contrary conclusion could be used to support abridgment of freedom of speech and of the press concerning almost every matter of importance to society.

It discusses the right to inform the public of the facts of a labor dispute. That is a far cry from the act of striking.

If that's the best you can come up with, you've got a weak case, I'm afraid.

I repeat, where's the First Amendment issue in the ACT of STRIKING ?

Explain how it's different from expression.

What else would the right to strike be based on?

Plain and simple.

Mediation, Arbitration, fact-finding, and all those other procedures to resolved the dispute are 'strong arming'.

I concede, you live in another dimension where the meanings of words don't conform to our reality.

:sarcasm:

I hope the MTA isn't too hurt by this treachery.

the strike frustrates ME. But, it's not in defense of the MTA. It's about the millions of people who are, at best, inconvienienced in NYC. At worst, it's about the many people whose lives may be endangered as a result of the chaotic transportation in the city. There is a reason why this type of strike was made illegal. I have sympathy for the wants and needs of the MTA workers, but, I sympathize much more for those who don't have the same benefits or job security that those workers had whose lives are now in turmoil and made much more difficult as a result of this strike.

"many people whose lives may be endangered as a result of the chaotic transportation in the city . . . "


since when has seeking alternative transportation been life threatening?

btw, walking is good for you!!!

I'm talking about anyone who needs to be rushed to the hospital, but can't make it because traffic is in chaos on the way. I hope that won't be an issue. I'm happy to walk myself. There are elderly and infirm people who can not walk. I just hope that this doesn't not affect them. That's all..... Not a reach. A practical concern about the strike.

it's not like anyone is trying to evacuate from a hurricane up i-45 in texas or anything.

and from all accounts i've heard, the NY metro area is not bedlam right now.

I saw news coverage of nasty traffic getting to park and rides and other contingency sites.

have been lifted, and the tunnel/bridge traffic seems to be running smoothly. I may actually come into Manhattan right now. As long as it is running smoothly and not chaotic, then I'm not as concerned about it as I was. I just hate to see our anybody in our city take a huge economic hit right before the Holidays. I hope that this strike ends soon.

That will change tomorrow I guarantee you. I will probably have to take Metro North to 125 St then try to get a cab to the Bronx as the walking route goes through some damn bad neighborhoods.

I had a Christmas dinner that I was planning on skipping tonight, but then I heard that the traffic wasn't so bad. It took me an hour an a half each way from Park Slope to the UWS of Manhattan. Cross town was a bitch. The Brooklyn Bridge tonight was also a pain in the behind.

Word is now that there are no immediate plans for further talks? What does that mean? Are both sides being stubborn? Or is this the result of one side over the other.

(The downside... it cost me $31.00 to park my car for seven hours in Manhattan today. A bit pricey, but the garages all seemed to be charging their normal rates. No price gouging.)

people are being especially helpful to eachother today.

to get some pinkerton guards, or maybe a militarized police force to go and crack their heads?

the robber baron types of the late 19th early 20th century said the same things you are saying: and they killed workers to maintain the status quo.

You sound like your hero Dildo Reilly.

To the heroic folks of Local 100 and all other union brothers and sisters I say :loveya: Rock fucking on. Bring the MOFO city to a standstill if you have to! Is it just me or is there some weird STANK on this thread? :silly:

Peyton & Binka Say Rock ON Union Folk!

x(

Solidarity! :patriot:

Solidarity! Peyton SEZ "Legendary Lady Loves Labor!!"

:woohoo:

:hug:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Could that be part of the problem? Surely, all these folks are uneducated & untrained--you can tell just by looking at them.

And many just sit down on the job--they're lazy, you know.

The Old South goes North!

But, year, this "welfare queens" mentality revival chills me to the bones.

But you never can tell.

And I am not saying all NYC-ers are decent people - just that I am suspicious when NYC-DU-ers sound exactly like freepers.

in choosing what is perhaps the most apropos DU username for yourself.

Fuck Robber Baron Laws.

I don't know what your story is, but you're working awfully hard to put down unions. And it's obvious.

and especially not as a last resort.

To not give carte blanche to unions to do whatever they want regardless of the law is not to be anti-union and to claim otherwise seems like a smear tactic.

I could claim that you are all over the place with your 'pro-illegality crap' but I don't because unions are a necessary part of the economic and political system but they have a responsibility to obey the laws or seek to change them, not decide which ones they like and which ones they don't. And, if you view the strikes as civil-disobiedience, they have an obligation to use it as a last resort, not the first, when negotiations break down.

Public employment has special obligations and is not a right.

But to be honest, I'm annoyed as all hell. Especially because the MTA seemed to cave into all the demands except for a 6% payment for new MTA workers into their own healthplans. I don't know anybody who doesn't pay something into their own healthplan. It just seems excessive for this strike that is crippling this city to be about that.

Though, I'd love to hear other opinions about it.

That's where I'm coming from. Plus, because everyone else does something doesn't make it right. Shouldn't workers be treated well?

Should any surplus go back to the city?

That would help working people too.

doesn't sound too bad. I don't know all the details but right now I'm not too sympathetic. Right now their retirement age is 55.

so why don't they just bend over and take it like the rest of us. Probably with all the diesel and exhaust fumes they inhale on a daily basis, they are dead by 62.

Wohoo! What a deal! I wonder how much progress unions can give up next time around. Their entire pension and health benefits? Go down to $9 an hour like Delphi? We either stand by unions and living wages or have a country of $5 an hour workers.

when my dad went on strike (teamsters) when we were kids, we often went without nutritious food.

I hope you eat well now :)

and my father also worked in the transportation industry. I can remember him walking the picket line too. An essential part of the existence of a union is having the power to strike. I can't believe any Democrat would oppose that. :shrug: I live in a "right to work" state and I see workers victimized each and every single day because they don't belong to a union. Power to the people! If it means I had to walk 10 miles I'd do it because that's how I was raised-to support a union. How can anyone here NOT support these people's right to strike?

those guys (and women) way back when (the beginnings of unions) were SHOT TO DEATH, BEATEN, and labeled as incendiaries, reds, what have you just to have the right to collective bargaining.

where in the fuck do the reactionaries think the 8 hour work day comes from?

but it points to a fundamental ignorance of history. the rank and file of the lunatic mainstream of the republican party and it seems some elements of the left (they can't ALL be disruptors here) simply either don't know or refuse to realize that capital unrestrained means misery for the majority of people.

the people in power (and they are very few and probably not spending time here knocking unions) STOP AT NOTHING to preserve and enhance profit: human rights; humane working conditions; and child labor are not key issues for corporatists, capitalists, and the elite.

reminds me of the denzel malcolm x movie: "you've been hoodwinked, you've been had."

the extra funny part is that the labor struggle is not some figment of the historical past: this stuff happened LESS than a century ago.

go figure.

I'm married to a union guy. Our local is directly responsible for keeping our pension fund healthy. They hired the best lawyers possible and fixed it so the company honchos can't touch it -- not that they haven't tried!

Hell, I'd walk twenty miles -- solidarity!

I've been through a dozen strikes in my family (USWA & UMWA). You remember those huge blocks of government cheese? That was us. Nobody strikes just for the hell of it.

Big business and govenments are the ones who are illegal!

billionares

Are you hurt if your doctor or lawyer or your kid's teacher can't get to work?

Jeebus.

can still have strength. You can call me heartless but that's how I feel.

That's the whole point. What good is a strike if it has no impact on society? Why would the public-at-large pressure the gov't and the company to resolve the issue if they're not being inconvenienced?

http://search.newscom.com/db/KRT/krtgfx/docs/041/309.thm









There Is Power In A Union
by Billy Bragg
There is power in a factory, power in the land
Power in the hand of the worker
But it all amounts to nothing if together we don't stand
There is power in a Union

Now the lessons of the past were all learned with workers blood
The mistakes of the bosses we must pay for
From the cities and the farmlands to trenches full of mud
War has always been the bosses way, sir

The Union forever,defending our rights
Down with the blackleg,all workers unite
With our brothers and our sisters from many far-off lands
There is power in a Union

Now I long for the morning that they realise
Brutality and unjust laws cannot defeat us
But who'll defend the workers who cannot organise
When the bosses send their lackeys out to cheat us?

Money speaks for money,the Devil for his own
Who comes to speak for the skin and the bone?
What a comfort for the widow,a light to the child
There is power in a Union

The Union forever,defending our rights
Down with the blackleg,all workers unite
With our brothers and our sisters together we will stand
There is power in a Union

I won't call you heartless, a little dismissive of the binds this has placed people in maybe.

The issue I have with this is public support, I just don't see how shutting down the main trasnportation system for a city of millions which many working class people depend on is going to win much sympathy. Especially since the main obstacle right now is over future employees putting 6% of their salary towards their pension as opposed to 2%. Given what these workers make and the fact they are getting a minimum 3% raise over the next few years. The parent union Prez has decided not to support this strike because he thought the last mgmt offer repesented progress. I think he sees the potential for a public relations nightmare.

A couple of years ago, grocery workers in SoCal went on strike to protest severe cuts in their healthcare. They got absolutely filleted by many people(even those who normally would be supportive) over their salaries which were very high for unskilled labor. The union ended up settling in the middle ground but not before taking a PR black eye from people that should have been supportive.

This could end up very badly and try as it will for the union to blame management for forcing this action, the people will blame the union.

By strikes but we can't. We need to stand with workers when they strike even if it means sucking it up. It's too important. Americans have been drinking anti-union koolaid for decades now and it's resulted in losses in benefits and protections, outsourcing, and lower wages. It's been going downhill sharply ever since Raygun fired those air traffic controllers. I remember it, though I was a kid. People thought it was great; he was being "tough". Now many of us live in so-called Right to Work states, which means you can be fired for no reason and unions are actively discouraged by employers and the sheeple think this is JUST FINE!

walk, bike, cab.

it's not like nyc (how far is the northernmost point in the bronx from downtown? in miles? how far is the farthest point in any burough to any point in manhattan?) is in north dakota . . .

also does MTA affect commuter rail or are these separate entities?

if they are separate (and commuter rail is not on strike) then the suburbanoids can get to their rail terminii near where they work.

i used to live in chicago and would sometimes walk from irving park road downtown to go to work. quite a few blocks. actually very invigorating.

Island Railroad are all separate entities. Metro North has made statements supporting the Union. If they went on strike as well the City would crawl to a stop.

yes, i said it. i can't believe i blush while saying this on a democratic website.

the 7,000,000 daily MTA riders can really easily fit into cabs.

my commute takes me an hour in each direction on the subway. it took me nearly 4 hours to walk there this morning and it was 15 degrees out. if i hadn't gone, i wouldn't have gotten paid.

it's very easy for you to tell people to walk from wherever you are.

go cry somewhere else, that is if you even live in NY.

a one hour commute on a subway/el is less than an eight mile walk in a city like chicago.

i would imagine it's even less in a compact city like NY.

you can walk eight miles in 2.5 hours. wake up early and dress warmly. i've done it millions of times. in chicago. during winter. colder than 15 degrees with a direct north wind blowing.

get a good clip going and you start to even warm up a bit.

ridership would more than likely be down during the week of xmas anyway.

how many miles are you from your job?

So you're accusing me of lying? Nice. I'm about 8 miles from work, if you could walk in a straight line, which you can't. Thanks anyway, though.

What a kind soul you are. I'd tell you what I think of you, but it'd break the rules, so you can just use your imagination.

Ridership is down the week of christmas in NYC? That is probably the stupidest thing I have heard in a while. If anything, it's the *busiest* week of the year.

...in fact it is exactly that attitude that will cost this union dearly in the PR dept.

Its one thing to apologize for the incovenience this may cause. Its quite a another to say suck it up.

I'm reading back over these posts that were written at 8AM -- before the day even started. My co-worker went to her doctor this morning -- no problem. The city is not "crippled." CNN is exaggerating and lying as usual.

My commute is 25 minutes by subway -- today it was a 55 minute walk. I should walk more often.

Union Yes!

No wonder nothing has changed in the last 50 years.

The assholes of the MTA, who are responsible for the strike.

NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, likes the MTA or thinks they're doing a good job.

If they could eliminate all labor costs, they'd do it.

are run by pig-headed fools.

I don't think Roger Toussaint is pig-headed or a fool. I think he's really doing what the union wants him to do, which is preserve the union against the MTA's attack on it.

I guess that's pretty pigheaded

all the way. Dad was in the OCAW for many years, and I know the sacrifices that union workers deal with,just to get what they deserve.

there are a lot of benefits that Americans take for granted today because our union forefathers and foremothers worked hard to get them. Let's start with the 8 hour day and workers compensation for example. I could go on and on.

Lots of good Union Democrats living there.

a thing of the past . . .

most of the former high paying jobs are subcontracted now and pay 8-10 and hour.

these same jobs paid 15 or so in the mid 80s (back when you could work directly for the major oil companies).

Where are people's heads?? So many people are making less money now than they did 20 years ago, prices have gone up, and yet they're still buying into the 'wage increases will cause prices to go up' nonsense. We've had wages go down, we've got 50 cent an hour foreign wages, and yet we've got $150 Nikes. When will average joe worker connect the dots? The stock market has tripled in value the last 30 years. Hello?? Only the stockholder is getting rich in this economy.

is a little patch of blue in red country.


too bad they gerrymandered the district and they ended up with ted poe.

i met nick lampson a couple of times. he seemed like an alright guy. don't know his voting record though.

and se texas is one of the few places in the state (aside from austin) where you see the "TEXAS DEMOCRAT" bumperstickers.

plus they have good boudain.

Solidarity forever!

:patriot:

May you one day take this as inspiration.

:patriot:

:toast:

(I hope that means what Google claims it means. ;) )

If this doesn't wake some people up, I don't know what will. :thumbsup:

people make up the wealth of this nation, not just a few. Remind the worker that they too can have power. And teach elected officials that they can't always buy elections and get a bargain. Hang this one around that mayor's neck.

I walked 40 blocks this morning and I'll walk home and I'll get up tomorrow and do it again. And if my union walks out in support I'll walk the picket line too. I walk for the workers, I walk against Bush and Bloomberg, I walk for justice. :)

I live in the Bronx. I'm "working" from home instead of trying to get from 233rd to mid town. It's a mess.

All the same, I support this. The MTA thinks they're being generous by offering 3% raises each year for three years. That's below the increase in cost of living last year (4.1%). Why would any sane person ever agree to three years of pay raises at that rate?

Even the original 8% the union was demanding isn't outrageous. Compared to what other workers are getting, it appears ludicrous, but that's a function of the touchstone, not the actual raise. ALL workers are getting paid too little, so it's easy to point at a group of folks and say "see, they only get 3% raises, so that's teh best you can hope."

I hope they shut it down for a long time, and get their deal. Labor is life. Respect it.

:thumbsup:

laws that are meant only to protect the rich must be just ignored. what else can we do? laws that strip workers and unions of their fundamental rights have to be broken, challenged and struck down. ultimately, democracy requires the consent of the governed. we must not consent to be governed by those intent on destroying our democracy.
kudos upon kudos for twu, and those that are risking confrontation with today's pinkertons in this strike.
union yes!

Dress warmly!!!

the walk back's gonna suck.


It's worth it, though. The city is very calm it seems.

Fifth and Madison are both closed to traffic. Bike up Mad and then through the Park and you're home!

But my legs hurt

:yourock:

Unions rock!

:D

All of those workers who are "inconvenienced" by this strike can give back all the benefits unions have given them.

;)

My father was a member of the PA State Employee Union and my Stepfather is a member of the Steelworker's union.

Go Union - all the way!!

Worker's rights to protect their livelihoods is a just very slightly higher priority than the "convenience" of whiny armchair pseudo-progressives, in my book. I am genuinely stunned at how many people here seem to see things differently.

Thank God I work for Trump!

why?

I stayed home today, because there's just no way I can walk from the ass end of Brooklyn to midtown.

But it's about solidarity. I was raised in a union home. Working people have been fucked in this city for far too long and under Bloomie they dont even use lube anymore.

for the workers!

the Country; it's been going on HARDCORE for the past 5 years. Just "trust them" to do what's right, correct? That worked out so well for Tyco,Enron, and Worldcom employees, didn't it? And let's not forget the Airline and Automaker ranks soon to be bent over without even a reach-around. The Middle Class is going to be extinct in 10 years if we don't stop the exploitation and exportation!! It is the American Worker that makes this country run everyday, and occasionally the Corpo-Fascist Pigs need to be reminded of that little fact.

From '47-'58, the U.S. economy was at it's peak (for many, many reasons) (Source: Paul Kennedy, Rise and Fall of the Great Powers). Interestingly enough, U.S. membership in Unions was also at it's peak (33% of American workforce!-- surprised even me!) (source: Studs Terkel, Working). Most likely, the cause and effect if the two are tenuous and indirect at best, but it speaks volume's about where the values American workers lied. Unions allowed blue collar workers to entertain a middle class existence, something many of today's white collar workers struggle simply to achieve.

I grew up in TX and as it's a Right to Fire state, I have missed out on a large piece of American cultural heritage and most likely view Unions somewhat more dispassionately than I should. That being said, I am appalled at the anti-Union sentiment and pro-management apologists on this thread. Appalled and a bit nauseated.

Union members--- You ROCK! All of YOU!!

(As an aside, during the '47-'58 economy, taxation was at it's highest historic levels Source: Paul Kennedy, Rise and Fall of the Great Powers))

140 blocks is 36 St to 161 St, plus crosstown plus non numeric streets in the Bronx bringing it to more than 140 blocks. ONE WAY!

not counting the cross-town

It's illegal for our union to strike and every year our benefits get worse. Right now with the increase of health care and with a 3.5% raise I am making less money than I was last fiscal year. This is what is happening in our country. Legal or Not I'm glad this union is taking a stand.

Laissez-faire capitalism - I'm lovin' it!

i had an idea i shared with you via pm. :hi:

:hi:

Plus, they are stupid.

The MTA workers get an average of 47K a year.. 8% a year raise = $3,760 a year raise for 30,000 bus drivers and subway workers. That's 112 million dollars in a year that could go to underfunded schools, fire departments, public works, paying down the pension debt, etc. I'm all for people standing up for their rights as union employees, but for public employees to shut down New York City on that kind of a demand is rediculous. As a New Yorker who has constantly become accustomed to subway, bus, and toll hikes, maybe it would nice for some of that money to actually go back into the system and not line some union boss's pockets. For once Im not with these guys, sorry... I dont expect to become a bus driver and start making 100 grand a year..

So the raise would be essentially 2%. And are you able to raise a family in NYC on $47,000? That's a working wage, friend. That is not luxury living. The most appalling thing to me is to listen to the BILLIONAIRE call these hard-working people "selfish." It's an outrage and I would walk too if it were me. And how exactly is the wage increase going to line any union boss's pocket? And how do you go from $47K to $100K?

:yourock:

We seriously need a revitalization of unions in this country.

I wonder how many folks have no choice but transit to meet their obligations.

I felt very bad for them - I don't know if it was their choice or if they they just stuck. I saw disabled people, frail elderly people, making their way up the sidewalk, more of them than I would expect normally, in some cases where I thought I should stop and offer to help and then I thought no, I might offend them, people who were really having a slow and difficult time. I think there should be contingencies in place for this in future. Fellow unions could pitch in to assist those in difficulty. I embrace the union and the strike fully, but I have to be honest, I saw people who were struggling due to disability. Should not have happened.

managed to put on first page an offensive title on this. These are posters I never seen before.

they are inconsequential

and bravo for your support!

Chelsea to Grand Central and back, then Chelse to Tribeca, cab home. Well worth it. El Pueblo, Unidos, No Mas Sera Vencidos! (sp!)