What Democratic lawmakers BELIEVE there is voting machine fraud?

It seems to me that needs to be established before we can get much further on this issue.

believe it is possible to hack the machines or believe they have the evidence to prove the machines were hacked? (These could be the same thing or could be different things.)

.

Gotta let a few "win" so it looks kosher.

And I am wondering who exactly IS on record for even believing it's possible, at least, if they don't believe it happened already.

that can of worms.. Worst case scenario for THEM?? They lose their seat in congress and can then move on to a multi-million dollar job as a lobbyist or board of director's gig.. The only personal losses are those of the ordinary folks like us, who have little or no say in much of anything:cry:

I personally think that not many believe it and they are beating down those who do.

Why else would they want a paper trail/receit/audit? Conyers, for sure. The CBC?

There is no way to stop the tampering of elections today, unless candidates stop conceding and demand to obtain and analyze their own detailed election results data and, if it looks suspicious, fight for hand recounts or even re-elections where necessary.

A group of professionals, mostly PhDs, at US Count Votes wrote this concise "History of the Debate Surrounding the 2004 Presidential Election" to help politicians and the public understand elections in America today. The Washington State governor's race and other information in our history show that election tampering is not restricted to presidential races.

Please make copies to give to politicians you know:

http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/Presidential-Election-2004.pdf

US Count Votes has authored basic common sense methods to ensure that vote counts accurately reflect voter intent (because there never will be a perfectly tamper-proof voting system):

1. Election data analyzation. (I'm amazed that any candidate would concede without first analyzing their election data, but Gore, Kerry, and the DNC did - even in Ohio. Even though they have every legal right to the data - they didn't even bother to obtain it!)

http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/election_officials/ElectionArchive_advice.pdf

2. Independent Audits of Vote Counts. We audit banks, churches, and businesses to detect errors and prevent insider embezzlement. Vote count winners control budgets and issues worth millions to trillion, yet we "trust" the insiders not to tamper or make errors! (Due to many years of vote count manipulation and the new DRE voting machines that are trivial to use to manipulate vote counts without leaving a trace, it may not be possible to implement independent audits until after doing election data analysis to put honestly elected candidates into office for a few election cycles):

http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/paper-audits/Paper_Audits.pdf

Unless we can educate politicians to stop conceding until after investigating the accuracy of their own vote counts, we will not live in a democracy and millions of lives will be lost, just like when Hitler got rid of the German Republic.

Educating politicians to stop conceding elections is vital to restoring democracy and may be the most difficult task due to the arrogance of some politicians who cause their own demise by implementing measures like the Help America Vote Act law which was the largest bonanza for election tamperers in the history of America.

Please pass out this scientific academic history:

http://electionarchive.org/ucvAnalysis/US/Presidential-Election-2004.pdf

The days before the elections, they come to us begging for more money, and keep promising how they will FIGHT for us, and then a day later, they brush their hands together, and hug the bastard who cheated them out of an election, and tell us how we need to "move forward".. BULLSHIT.

Pols are so afraid of being labeled a "sore loser", yet you are only a loser if you give in willingly. People admire leaders who take a stand, and at least demand an accounting.

The same people (who lose) seem to always be running, and keep asking people for more money. They don;t use the money they were given, to account for the election they just had...they "hoard it" for the NEXT election, which in all likelihood, they will again be cheated out of..

and they wonder why the public is apathetic and disconnected....like our "leader" said.."fool me..can't get fooled again"..

The machines are setup for onetime use and then they automatically erase.

The DNC needs to secure the machines and verify their programs BEFORE elections because after is too late.

The machines need securing BEFORE the election.

After is too late.

over Saxby Chambliss. 23,000 Diebold voting machines were installed throughout the state of Georgia before that election.

Cleland most likely believes the election was stolen but he has to be confronted with the question in public.

and back away from the issue, because there is no PROOF..

Voting is not rocket science, and COULD be made transparent and easy, but it only gets more complicated ..why??..because the MORE layers, the easier it is to fudge the numbers..

Dems are probably reluctant to "fix it" because they still see themselves as pozssibly getting back in the leadership, and they probably want to utilize the same weaknesses to their advantage someday.. The sad truth?..It's probably too late.

:shrug:

that the election was stolen? What has he said or done to cause you to draw that conclusion?

national figure so it would be "irresponsible" for him to claim election fraud with no proof.

:shurg:

If you don't think he could or should believe there was fraud I'm okay with that.

It would be hard for a person involved in a close election to ignore so much of the data that points to a Diebold theft.

I think when Teresa spoke up about it a while back that she was saying what many in the Kerry camp believe happened, including Cleland.

I think they just won't speak out publicly until they find the most effective way to do it, and I think that means having some Sec of State in office that believe in machine fraud, too.