For all our anger why wont we picket right wing churches?

You know for all the readily deserved anger and at Bush's anti choice base it saddens me that no one is willing to stand up to these yahoos. Instead all we same to do is turn on each other, and misplace and redirect our energy on ourselves rather than our enemy. I feel the only way to stop Alito, Pat Roberston's, Jerry Fawells, and the Bishop council is to mobolize a physical force to actively protest these rounds. And not just as a means of counter protest but we have to start playing offense with the loons.

What I mean is this, if a local pharmacist is refusing to hand out birth control we should have a demonstration at that persons church . Right now we should have hand links outside Alito's church to force him to resign before he starts pontificating his religous beliefs on us. Right now we should be outside the national methodist church and demand that they excummunicate Dubya for starting the war. Right now we be picketing the bishop's council, and catholic churches and demand that the anti choicers stop interfering in medical decisions such as abortion and stem cell.

We can no longer afford to be complacent and hope that the bullies will leave us alone.
It's not were the bear is pawing at a peace of food and if you play dead long enough it'll move on to something else. The right has no problems with protesting thier own if there "standards arent met." Do you remember how they protested Al Sharpton when he attend St Sabinis Mass in Chicago or threattened to excummunicate John Kerry? Better yet the recently got the IRS after a SF priest who spoke against the war, or when the goon chan chandler threw people out of his church for voting for Senator Kerry.

Now we can just play rope a dope, or we can go on the offense. If someone wants to plan a protest around Fred Phelp's church let me know. Ill fly thier on the first. The right has engaged us in a street fight we can no longer play by Marquis De'Queensberry rules.
And I firmly believe that if you bloody a bullies nose, he'll back down. So who's with me do you want to stand up and fight these freaks where it'll do the most good? Or would you rather complain whine and drive the religious division stake further into the heart into the progressive momement.

Now's the time to act people, not after Alito has been confrimed but now.
The sands in the hour glass are running short - whose with me.?

will only rally the whackos around the pharmacists doing this. O'Lielly and his ilk would say that it means there is a REAL war on Christians, and it would help the rwingers far more than it would us.

Far better to let folks know which pharmacies allow this shameful practice and stage a boycott of those pharmacies.

But there has to be some other option than merely letting the base of the republican run wild. I mean were going to be damned if we dont or damned if we do so I say let's be damned if we do :D

That's my guess. In fact, not a guess at all.

Why make their lies true for them?

Go after the pharmacy chains. Go after the legislatures. Take a test case through the courts. Those things can really help them. But picketing churches will only make us look like that other guy famous for picketing churches: Fred Phelps.

And, appropos of nothing, the Marquess of Queensberry was actually a particularly nasty and vicious person. Certifiably insane, too.

I picketed Two Rivers Baptist Church in Nashville when Tom DeLay was a speaker at their so-called "Justice Sunday II". I did not consider it a coincidence that the very next time I flew I found myself on the "no-fly" list, although I was ultimately allowed to board the flight.
I am a Baptist, btw.

I go to an episcopal church now, but i am just so tired and frustrated of the rw lies and scheming and enforcing its own brand of fake theology on us. Thank you again i know it must have took a great deal of courage .

But picketing it because of the views or actions of one of its members is quite another.

I agree with you about picketing the hosts of Just Us Sunday, because the church itself was pushing a political agenda and thus fair game. But I would not support protesting outside a church because one of its parishioners won't fill birth control prescriptions or the like.

I'd rather see it concerning detainee torture, use of white phophorous, support of an illegal war, etc.
but hey, that's just me.

You might think about printing up flyers with pictures of dead and maimed Iraqi children on them, or of elderly Gulf Coast residents dying in the streets after Katrina, or any number of "ungodly" images their Lord and Savior Bush has caused to occur.


Plaster their cars with them while they are in church.


Just one idea that does not involve direct confrontation while they are worshipping. The later would only lead to screams of "persecution."

Interesting ideas everyone.

Stealth Information Awareness.

For a while, I rode around with some very bloody, startling photos of dead and maimed Iraqi children on my car.

When the tsunami hit, I took them off so as not to get the two tragedies confused. I also have new drivers in the house and can't send them on the roads with such provocative stuff on the car. But I will do this again, no doubt.

There was power in those graphic pictures, and they made people think. They pissed off a lot of folks, too.

There is a reason Corporate Media won't show the carnage of war. Be the media....

The media would be all over people who did this like white on rice and it'd be bad publicity.

I don't want our party being looked at like we looked at the Terri Schiavo Fan Club crowd.

On Edit: Dammit I got a quote real wrong...NEED MORE COFFEE...BRAIN NOT WORKING.

We don't protest their religious beliefs nor do we wish to curtail their rights. We do, however, protest the influx of their religious beliefs onto the whole of the nation. Therefore, protesting at their place of worship sends the wrong message.

My money is there, so will be my voice.

You can't even attend without invitation, which makes me wonder why they're tax-exempt.

Sadly, I think we're going to have to find another way, because the media will jump all over us if we picket churches. We'd be helping the people we want to stop.

I'm thinking specifically of the great Martin Luther King. With a tiny group of dedicated followers, he waged strategic campaigns to achieve one victory after another. Everything he did was focused, measurable, and effective. We are doing nothing of the sort today.

So, I got to thinking, would any of his tactics work today? We seem unable to influence policy by winning elections, so now what? Do we just wait around for the next election? I think not. Allow me to suggest a campaign that we can win:

Problem:

One of the things that bothers me most is President Bush's Faith Based Initiative program, which strikes me as immoral to the core. Our government is using the power of the IRS and law enforcement to funnel our hard-earned money toward religious causes many of us do not believe in. We need separation of church and state.

Solution:

One strong leader and a few thousand people can win this battle legally and legitimately. If our tax money is being used to support religious groups, it seems to me that those organizations are no longer private. If my money is going to their venue, then I should have a voice in their venue.

Someone should put up a website listing of all religious groups that are accepting funding from the government. Next, local volunteers should go to their religious services and take the following actions:

Week 1: Put fliers on all the cars in the parking lot warning that if they do not cut off Federal funding they will have their church services interrupted each week until they do. Explain our case, that if they want our money they will have to deal with us, too. Encourage church members to pressure church leaders into contacting our organization and publicly pledging not to accept any more funds (the measurable part). If they fail to make that promise, then...

Week 2, 3, 4, etc.: A few individuals should walk into church services and interrupt them. Shout that, since they get public money the public should have a voice. Force them to deal with that. Direct them to the website for more info. What are they gonna do, throw you out? Implement security? Great. Make them DEAL WITH US. I’m telling you, we can really rain on their parade. Imagine, a church with a security force. Church members will not stand for it. We will have made our point.

The result:

We teach religious people that separation of church and state is good for them, too. They cut the ties with government, we publically thank them, leave them alone, and wish them well. We shift public opinion and win this battle!

I'm not the person to lead this. I'm leaving the country soon. But if there are any future Martin Luther Kings in the house this would be a very good start.

I've been attempting to follow the Faith-Based Initiative funding since it began. It's close to impossible. (I've decided it is quite impossible for a single person to do all alone.)

There is no one venue which reports. Each department within the government awards and disperses the funds -- I don't think even the Faith-Based Department knows exactly how much is going and to whom. The White House reports a certain figure... the Faith-Based group reports a different figure... the Departments themselves report yet another different figure.

As a side note, if I ever wanted to set up a program which could operate behind closed doors to funnel money where ever I wished, I would model it after the Faith-Based Initiatives program.

PBS reported, through its Frontline show, that a diverse set of religious groups applied for Faith-Based monies. The awards went only to Christian-based groups and a handful of religious alliances. Even PBS, however, could not provide an accurate figure as to how much and to whom.

I didn't know exactly how secretive it is. So I guess all Churches are targets until they make this transparent.

Put fliers on all the cars in the parking lot warning that if they do not cut off Federal funding they will have their church services interrupted each week until they do.

That is extortion. Extortion is a felony. No different than putting fliers on all the cars in the parking lot warning that if the church doesn't give you 10% of the collection plate, the church will have a mysterious fire sometime.

How would that make you any different, or better, than Phred Phelps or those Christians who would like to disrupt my Pagan practices in the name of their god? It doesn't. If you think that Dr. King would approve of your scheme, you need to learn more about his philosophy.

You said: I'm not the person to lead this. Since you are advocating the commission of felonies, you should actually lead that suicide squad, instead of inciting others to do your dirty work for you while you sit safely outside the country. To do anything else is cowardice.

The Pagan Preacher
I don't turn the other cheek.

unlike their side, which can't stand anything the slightest bit different than them. (symptom in individuals of psychosis)

We support their first amendment rights unconditionally. They don't support our rights. Tell me who is the real constitution-loving American?

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I mean, a traditional Meeting for Worship involves an hour or so of silence for prayer, meditation, and waiting upon the spirit of God to move. It gets a bit difficult when protesters are outside banging drums, chanting pro-war slogans, etc.

Let's maintain the truce on church grounds.

Organize about a dozen or so pro-Enlightenment followers. Select a particularly fundie-type church. Dress up and attend that church some Sunday morning. Sit separate in the pews.

When the sermon begins, one pro-E person asks "What's 'Intelligent Design?'" This throws the pastor/minister off balance and he tries to regain order. Then another pro-E person says, "Yea, what is 'Intelligent Design?' I'd like to know, too." Keep on it, in spite of the reactions. Gradually, all 12 or so pro-E people are asking questions about ID. No doubt the congregation will get involved with Shhhh or some other comments about shutting up. Then ask, "Is this not God's House?" Act surprised. Act genuine. Also maintain a civil tongue and merely explain that you want to know all about ID. Don't accept responses like, "Go to bible class on Wednesday evening." Just say you want to know now and you want the pastor/minister to explain it.

Stay "inquisitive" until the cops are called. When the police arrive tell them you are in "God's House and asking questions about ID." The cops say you will have to leave. Act incredulous and ask, "Leave God's House? Why?" "Is God's House on private property?"

Get arrested. You'll might be released once outside, but if not, call the local paper and explain you were arrested for asking questions in God's House, but didn't realize God's House was located on private property.

The possibilities are endless...

Remember, if you don't pray in my school, I won't think in your church...

All you would end up doing is validating their prejudices by making your cause into a disruptive threatening presence. You can't force any agenda down anyones throat. You'd be much more effective doing less intrusive things like literature drops.

nights news asking what church- religion- can honestly stand up before the world and claim that their faith would advocate turning their backs on the weakest, neediest least of these, while giving tax-cuts to the ones who have the most-
I didn't catch his name- but he was a refreshingly honest voice- speaking against most of the vocal majority of his own party-

the verse of Christ that speaks loud to the cutting programs for the least while pretending righteousness- is where he asks "What Father would give his child a stone when he asks for bread?"
Bibles and tracts and all the pretty words in the world don't feed the physical body- and bodies that are hungry, sick, homeless and hurting cannot hear through the pain, and suffering-

I'm sick of religions that claim they are helping by spending their 'inheritance' on words and statues and crystal cathedrals while all around us, people are dying-

Not sure picketing is the best way- and the most 'christian' people i know don't do what they do for the puffed up pridefilled 'glory' and 'self rightous attention'- maybe better would be that we who see real 'faith' being walked not talked- should shout out about the GOOD that is being done by those who don't seek 'fame'- and allow the contrast to speak for itself-

In the effort to fight what we most reject about others, if we resort to using tactics, and attitudes that 'they' do, (fighting fire with fire) aren't we simply spreading destruction? I understand your question, and feel the desire to point out the hyprocricy- but don't want to become 'them' in an attempt to show the wrong that i believe 'they' are doing.

Sometimes my sense of humor works better in rehersals than on stage.

:kick: