How many people complaining about the TWU would trade jobs with them?

I live and work in Manhattan, and I ask everyone I hear moaning about how good the TWU workers have it if they would trade jobs with them. Not one person says yes.

The buses and subways run all night, on weekends and on holidays. How many TWU workers have 9-5 Monday-Friday jobs? I'm sure not many. How many people would want to work below ground all day? Or drive a bus through New York traffic all day?

There are few things more repulsive than a person (usually white) complaining about people below him in economic class (usually minorities) as being greedy.

And all we get from the media is how angry New Yorkers are at the greedy TWU. Oh yeah? A WABC-TV poll showed the public supports the union by 52% to 40%. http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportEmail.aspx?g=abcc845d-0a16-45c1-bf17-e0ee50a29b0e

What this poll implies is that while the white middle and upper classes that dominate the media might be doing a lot of bitching, there are a lot of New Yorkers, many probably below the TWU in economic class, who do not resent the workers for what they have.

It's about fucking time somebody took a stand against downsizing worker's compensation in the face of obscene compensation for executives. Thank you, Roger Touissant, for not doing the easy thing and selling out the future hires. You have stood up for us all.

at the subway office to ask for Thanksgiving day off a month in advance, either.

Moreover, I could not handle ten percent of those jobs.
Those are not cushy sales jobs.

And that applies to job AND country, mind you.

cause "all they do is drive a bus". typical angry white guy. After I pointed out that driving those brutes all day long is hard boring and body killing job. (I wouldn't last three blocks - not in NYC traffic) he started muttering that civil Unions shouldn't be able to strike. At that point I realized the situation was hopeless, so I just made a derogatory comment about Ken Lay (When ever anybody starts complaining about unions or workers or whomever being greedy I find Enron's a good comeback) and went back to my lunch.

ps I live in NYC and walked 10 miles (5 up and 5 back) to work Tuesday - took yesterday off and will in about 45 minutes walk home (another 5 miles).

That shit isn't easy for one second! All I did was make a big circle and take it back in the garage.

What is a typical angry white guy? I'm a white guy and I was angry........ angry at the MTA and Pataki and I went to the picket lines to support the workers for 3 nights in a row. There were quite a few angry white transit workers too. I don't understand what you mean.

Race shouldn't have entered into it.

the following stereotype: "There are few things more repulsive than a person (usually white) complaining about people below him in economic class (usually minorities) as being greedy." I'm sorry, but I find this almost as repulsive as the complaining itself.

Thank You for standing up for unionized employees.

I hate driving as it is and I sometimes take a bus and when it's rainy and dark I just don't see how they do it. Not to mention the surprise drug tests. These workers do not have a fun job by any means and these people who complain probably need to get off their fat lazy butts and walk in their city. I'll bet it the media and the people who don't use the transit system are the ones calling for their heads. So to all you transit workers in New York, here's a hug.

NEVER had a holiday off (at least I got Double time and a half)
NEVER had week-ends off.
Worked all 3 shifts.
Dangerous work.
I'm now half deaf from locomotive noise
My back is shot from arthritis from continuous banging and vibration.

And it's a damn good thing we had a good pension. I went on disability 4 years ago at age 49. If I didn't have that, I'd be homeless now.


Let those guys have what they've worked for all these years.

"There are few things more repulsive than a person (usually white) complaining about people below him in economic class (usually minorities) as being greedy."

And one of the few things that is more repulsive is stereotyping transit workers as black and people complaining about the strike as white. Aside from news anchors, how do you know that the people complaining about the TWU strike are in a higher economic class than the TWU workers? Additionally, how do you arrive at the conclusion that the majority of transit workers are minorities?

I live in NY. It is mostly minorities. I took a quick look on google to try to find the actual numbers, but no luck. Here's one site that mentions the TWU is predominantly black. http://prorev.com/indexa.htm

And I suggest that most of the people complaining are white because that has been my experience these past few days. My workplace is mixed, but the characterization of the TWU workers as greedy has come only from my white co-workers. While nobody is happy with the strike, the word "greedy" is used almost exclusively by the white people I've spoken with.

And the media in NY is dominated by whites (though whites are less than 50% of the NYC population). The racial makeup of the NY Times newsroom is downright embarassing. Also, the Daily News ran a headline about three feet tall saying, "MAD AS HELL." They weren't talking about the MTA.

If I say "Democrats are more liberal than Republicans" is that stereotyping? No, it's just making a general statement, even though there are certainly exceptions.

I really don't understand what a couple of posters have seen as offensive about my post. Maybe it's because my wife is Latina (I'm white), and we and our friends, like many New Yorkers, talk frankly about race a lot.

there is a grave discomfort in our society with discussions of racism, and any time someone points out a social situation with possible racial implications, people will try to pretend that pointing that out, somehow, is the real racism. It's bullshit, and I grow tired of it.

just use the words "black" and "white" in the same sentence you set off some kind of tripwire.

I used "Latina" to describe my wife because I know that's the word I'm supposed to use. But my Cuban wife and most Latinos I know use the word "Spanish" instead of Latino as a general description (of course, she frequently uses Venezuelan, Dominican, Puerto Rican, etc.)

I have two kids in public schools here, predominantly non-white. Our circle of friends is almost like the UN, and people enjoy talking openly about race and cultural differences without anybody getting offended. No one feels they have to tiptoe around the subject.

I've noticed how the differences in opinions regarding the strike are splintered along racial lines.

"Three times as many white New Yorkers say the union is more to blame for the strike than African-American New Yorkers."

It is a very deceptive way of twisting the numbers...... 35% of whites blame the union...... What about the other 65%? 65% is a very, very clear majority in support.

can many times have a tough time because of their color........ The thing that bothers me this time about this is at least where I was there was a real feeling of unity...... Everywhere I went the talk was about rich and poor not black, hispanic or white. On the picket lines I really didn't feel the division. Race never crossed my mind until I heard it mentioned.

How, exactly, is that more repulsive than privileged white people complaining about minorities who are privileged by class or race? According to what I've heard, the TWU is a majority-minority union, anyway.


"Aside from news anchors, how do you know that the people complaining about the TWU strike are in a higher economic class than the TWU workers?"

Obviously, the OP was complaining about those who ARE in a higher class. That's the whole point of the description. He wasn't making judging any individual complainer as being in a lower economic class.

and there were plenty of white people among the transit workers....... I feel disgusted that I have to make this point..... but I am not the one who started this angle on it.

I also am tired of the thieves crying thief. I used to leave "race" unfilled in polls - untill I understood the subversive reasons behind the "colorblind" BS. (I believe it was when reading about a census in California who would have used the pretense to disenfranchise some communities. Or pollsters to oversample whites. Eversince, I always fill in that info - and I learned from Lenny Bruce to not fear words.

did NOT have a majority of minority members it would not have been so bad mouthed, as this post from http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com states.

Yeah, right

That uppity negro


Throw Roger from the train!

from a Daily News Editorial-

Roger Toussaint, we dare you to take to the Brooklyn
Bridge this morning to tell the cold, walking throngs
why you chose to disrupt the lives of millions, jacked
up the expenses of tens of thousands, shuttered and
crimped businesses, exposed the subway system to terrorism
and generally threatened the public health and welfare.

It would be delicious watching you try to justify the
reckless, lawless transit strike that you have inflicted
on the city - assuming your fellow New Yorkers didn't hurl
you over the railing into the icy waters before you got a
word out. For this town, a labor town, is seething at
getting hammered for no good reason.

The rage will only build as the public gets the full
picture of how Toussaint rashly led the Transport Workers
Union away from the bargaining table despite winning
concession after concession from the Metropolitan
Transportation Authority. The most furious of all should
be the 33,700 workers who are on the street without
paychecks and facing huge penalties for violating the Taylor Law.

They are about to lose thousands of dollars each - and
their union will be financially broken by $1 million-a-day
fines - unless they pressure Toussaint to return them to
service, having gained all they are ever going to gain
through his extortion. Remarkably, the president of the
TWU International is urging the transit workers to go
back to work on their own, en masse. And well they
should, because the makings of a good deal await them.

................................................................

Uh, this is bullshit. The Daily News had an online poll which showed 90 percent of the web audience blamed the MTA for a strike. Of course, that poll disappeared when I reloaded the page. I wonder why? Maybe the poll was freeped. Maybe the bosses didn't like the message it sent.

Funny thing, when Toussaint showed up at Grand Central, he was given a fairly warm reception by the commuters. The claim "Mad as Hell" is really "funny as shit".

Maybe in the fantasies of the DN editoral writers New Yorkers might have Touissaint being tossed into the East River, but reality would have Peter Kalikow swimming from an angry mob, much, much sooner.

I'm watching a much more moderate Mike Bloomberg speak right now. He's not demanding that the union go back to work before negotiations, and he certainly didn't call anyone thugs. Why? Because his black supporters read him the riot act. Toussaint was on Kiss-FM and used that word to good effect.

I think he's facing the reality, like the tabs tommorow, that the union has won the first point, which is the MTA has a billion dollars and the pension hike was unfair. And that most New Yorkers, in scientific polling, support the union.

But what this really shows, more than the election, is that there are two New Yorks. One with a white upper middle class in Manhattan, south of 96th Street and in downtown Brooklyn, and a working and middle class outside of that. The fact is, as the mayor is now digesting, is that New York is a 55 percent minority city. The TWU is a majority minority union.

The reason the DN can write such a ridiculous editorial, belied by every interview I've seen, is that they aren't talking to the majority of New Yorkers. They're talking to their friends and neighbors and their small circle, and people outside that, most of New York, disagree.

When the mayor tries to hide behind the ill and home health care aides, let me tell you what people told me: they are treating these people this way because they are black. I heard that more than once yesterday. You won't see that in the Daily News, but I heard it on the street.

The media in this city does not realize that it's not 1997. Minorites now make up the majority of this city. Mike Bloomberg is mayor because of minority votes. Yet, they vilify their readers because they think they don't have the support they do. Believe me, no one is happy biking or walking in cold weather, but this idea of most New Yorkers cursing the TWU is bullshit for now.

posted by Steve @ 3:02:00 PM

and the best part is the minority brothers and sisters TWU owe alot of their sucesses to a white Irish guy, Mike Quill...the legendary founder of TWU. That is why I love NY, all of us, black and white and hispanic...irish, jamaican, polish, puerto rican, russian, dominican, chinese and every other race, creed and color standing together to fight for the betterment of all our lives. Check out the unofficial NYPD website (NYPDRANT.COM) and see the messages of support for TWU there as well. We all stand together or we will fall alone.

parking page........ what is a funcioning site at one time?

I have a tremendous respect for Roger Toussant..... he is a hero to me...... race never once crossed my mind.

So sick of people complaining just becaue it inconvenient for them.

great to know how new yorkers are really reacting ...

Try to live off this income in NYC!

a firefighter, I live in a majority white town and many hate Firefighters and Teachers who are ALL white. People are jealous because they think the union members have great benefits, great pay, easy jobs where they just skate by. It's really sickening. My husband hasn't had a contract in 3 years - how many of these complainers would stay in a job where they get 0 raise in 3 years and have a boss who denigrates them in public as a negotiating tactic?

have any of the job benefits they have in the jobs they have, or if they were in a union job, they would be better off than they are.
Second point..none of them would trade jobs with your husband, right?

"There are few things more repulsive than a person (usually white) complaining about people below him in economic class (usually minorities) as being greedy. "

Don't a lot of them make over 50,000 a year? If so, is it fair to call the a lower economic class?

Is it fair to call them all minorities? Or label that the majority that complain as white?

Most of the workers do not make 50K annually. This fake statistic has been repeated ad nauseum in the mainstream media.

I also am well aware of the cost of living in NYC. I live in Northern Jersey.

The average earnings include overtime.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/19/nyregion/nyregionspecial3/19cnd-mta.html?pagewanted=2

Train operators, station agents and cleaners earn between $47,000 and $55,000 a year before overtime.

Base salary for a police officer with 5 years experience: $44,100. Don't know what it is with overtime.

http://www.nypd2.org/html/recruit/salary.html

Edit, the average salary for a new yorker is $49,930 according to the State Labor Dept.

household.

Correct?

Anyways, here is the link to the state dept. of labor stats for NYC:

http://www.labor.state.ny.us/workforceindustrydata/apps.asp?reg=nyc&app=wages

Wage data are from the 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003 and 2004 OES survey, and have been adjusted to second quarter 2005 by making cost-of-living adjustments.

I might be wrong, but I think the median income for the US is higher than that -- 52k per household??? -- with the west coast and parts of the NE being the highest.

But that link isn't per houshold, it's average earnings per person/occupation.

I wasn't posting about the whole country because this thread is about the NYC transit strike.

a lower economical class, so I'm not sure why the OP chose include such a ridiculous statement then.

economic class. I was talking about people making a lot more than the transit workers complaining about somebody in a lower economic class than themselves as being greedy. Specifically, I was referring to white suburban people I know that said transit workers were greedy.

It is never said overtly anymore, but the unspoken subtext is race. "What more do they want?" is a frequent complaint. When people say it's not about race, it's usually about race. The neo-fascist New York Post reached a new low this morning with a front page headline screaming, "Jail Him!" and a doctored photo of Touissant behind bars in a jail cell. That image was aimed straight at the racist impulses of the wingnuts.

A much angrier rant than my own was posted upthread at Steve Gilliard's blog http://stevegilliard.blogspot.com/ Scroll down to the entry entitled, "Servants have no right to complain."

But I think the larger question here revolves around this country's declining middle class. Why are people so quick to blame the strikers when it was management that walked away? Most of the people complaining about the strikers probably don't know what it's like to be blue collar. Just look at the decline of the living standard of the average American worker over 30 years. When these folks strike, they strike for all of us.

i suffered through 2 transit strikes. i believe one was around 1964. my husband had to take the car to work and i was trapped at home with a small child and no means of transportation. the 2nd one in 1980 i was paid on an hourly basis and could not get to work. i was pissed at losing the money. but i never, ever thought about those strikes in terms of black and white. actually the 1960s one, the union leader was an irish guy (with a brogue) who said "the judge can drop dead in his black robes" and a few days later the union leader died.

okay, i've been gone from new york for 16 years and have never been back and maybe things have changed as far as race. i do remember that many bus drivers and subway workers were african american, but again i can't really see the race card here. yeah, it's a lousy job -- there are many lousy jobs, but unfortunately or fortunately people have them.

so when did a strike become a racial issue?

We are not playing cards here, though.
Soooo, God struck down the Union guy, who although he was white was a furriner with an accent, huh? New one on me. Sounds like it came straight from Pat Romertson's wish box.
I am sure you are happier where you are.

guy with an accent to make a point of the TWU not having black leaders. and yes i am happier where i am, but not for the reasons you think. it was time for me to leave new york -- i loved new york but it got to a point where i felt i couldn't breathe and fortunatley my husband was transferred. and i'm happy that i'm not around people like you.

on edit: as far as the union leader dropping dead i just thought it was ironic after he said that the judge should drop dead.

Reminds me of something I watched on McLaughlin group today: they called the NOLA Convention center coverage "Best photo-op of the year" - they drove W's numbers 10 points down.
Damn them race card players - they put up a hurricane just to annoy W!

statements make no sense, so i'm putting you on ignore. happy holidays.

Its only a few asswipe reicht wingers who have bought into the Unions are greedy talking point. Most people understand what is happening in this country as we get fewer and fewer bennies and stagnant wages . The good jobs go to China (which theyre using to militarize) and we get WalMart jobs in return. IMO Unions are about to make a giant comeback. People have ZERO bargaining power seperately , but together they equal out the odds of the rich and powerful corporate world.

Just look at the awesome power a few TWU workers had. They literally shut down the largest city in the world by staying home a few days. Now THATS POWER BABY! Thats real power, not phoney power propped up with dollars. We run this machine and we can make it stop or go. Its there if you want it.

I remember the coverage: obfuscated anchorman: "The numbers (5 supporting the union) are the same as yesterday. I am sure that by tomorrow that will change"
It reminded me of the 2000 recount coverage - covering "people's patience with this"