"If it'll help them catch terrorists....

I don't care who they eavesdrop on."

How do you respond to that? Said by a very good friend of mine, by the way.

Making money... Protection...

If you aren't willing to make a stand on Ideals, priniples then this great country of ours is a sham, a lie....

That's what I would say....

what happens if crooked politician(s) start to abuse that PRIVILEGE and starts ruining peoples lives over it.:eyes:

either legal or ethical and go after him for it.

"Oh what they busted you for calling under age phone sex girls, thats really too bad"

In 1209, during the "Albigensian Crusade" against the Cathar heresy in Southern France, the forces of Orthodox Catholicism had been besieging the city of Beziers, defended by the Cathar heretics, for some time. Finally they breached the walls of the city and prepared to storm it. The commander of the crusade, Simon de Montfort, Earl of Leicester, pointed out that not everybody in the city was a heretic, some of them were good Catholics, so how should they treat the inhabitants when they captured the city? A monk who was actually present at the siege recorded the answer of the Papal Legate to the Crusaders, Arnaud-Amaury, the Abbot of Citeaux, as "Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet." ("Kill them all. God will know his own." ) So the Crusaders followed his advice and killed everybody they could find in Beziers.

On could extend such logic to our own time. Arresst all who ae suspect, the terrorists are in there somewhere.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

friend thinking. This country creates terrorist.

that we've all seen here on DU a thousand times recently in various forms - "Those who are willing to sacrifice freedom to gain security deserve neither and will surely lose both".

that well for that German guy with the mustache, and he was good at it.

The 9-11 Commission wrote up a report and the administration failed to address ANY of the issues. They also gave this administration a FAILING report card on their "HOMELAND SECURITY" thus far. IMO, this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that these rat bastards are simply trying to scare the American people half to death. To date...I'm not aware of them catching any terrorist by solely eavesdropping. You might also want to point out that they had ample info re: 9-11 before it happened and ignored it!!! If I were your friend, I wouldn't want to "HELP" them do anything. Yikes.

Peace.

We all want to fight terror effectively. There must be limits. WE still have the rule of law.

So would going door to door and holding a gun at children's heads or injecting everybody with truth serum. Is that a good idea?

by the US government since Bush began spying on US citizens?

The answer: None.

These jellyfish have 0 character. I feel sorry for someone so devoid of backbone. I really feel sorry for the children of people like this. Can you imagine a role model saying something like that? Their kids will grow up just like Mom and Dad..spineless and weak

They don't even want to catch terrorists.

They got al F's on their terrorism report card. I dont think spying on Americans will do anything but lower their already pathetic attempts to "protect" us. What a freakin joke the reicht has become. They have become the laughingstocks on America. (and this is with complete control of all government)
OUCH :)

because I have nothing to hide."

I didn't really have a convincing answer for that one either other than secret spying on anyone without a court order is done only in police states like the former Soviet Union, Pinnochet's Chile and Nazi Germany.

So if "your friend" is only concerned with 'safety', then indeed he should surrender his freedoms to the state, and in exchange the state will keep him safe as long as it is in the best interests of the state to do so.

The problem with surrendering freedom to the state is that it is so very easy to do, especially when there is some fear inducing crisis to justify it, and almost impossible to undo. Today "your friend" has nothing to hide. Tomorrow may be a very different story. The power that you give the state 'to make you safe' will soon become the power used to control and manipulate you, to make you behave as the state wishes and not as a free person.

Perhaps "your friend" should consider that the people who founded our republic risked their lives, and many of them lost their lives, to establish the concrete rights enumerated in the constitution and the bill of rights, and that the 4th amendment, which protects us from unreasonable warrantless searches of our private affairs by the government was exactly one of the rights that they fought and died to establish. Perhaps "your friend" should consider why they thought this was such an important principle.

That's no different from what the Germans did as Hitler seized power.

and if you owe $ to someone, and if you're being threatened by someone...

How long until some son of a bitch sells your information to someone else?

to another room when they get a call from someone important to them and maybe you are setting there and they don,t want you to over hear what they are talking about , like in private conversation , this is a no winner for the freep side if they would just think first and then get back to you

Ask "Do you go off by yourself when you talk on the phone? How about when your girlfriend/boyfriend/boss/ etc calls? Why?"

If he really cares, he's done his research, and he'll have an answer.

deserve neither liberty or security.

because of his cowardness. that is how i am bottomlining all htis now. all these people that are now saying this, before bush, would have shit if anyone tried to mess with their civil rights or the constitution or broke law. and now they are allowing all that because...... they are all ...... cowards. shame on them

were raising holy hell about the police snooping
into Rush Limbaugh's medical records ??

Aren't these the same fuckheads who were fighting tooth and nail
against background checks before gun purchases ?????

What hypocrites. What idiots.

Can't wait until surveillance tapes of these freepie-creeps
wanking it to homo-jesus erotica gets leaked onto the interNETS.

and yet, how many terrorists are there really with the finances, connections and ability to carry out a major attack?

Enough to count on one hand, two hands...

You tell me.

That's happened countless times in the past. It will happen countless times in the future. The issue is circumventing checks and balances to eavesdrop on americans without obtaining a warrant, which is illegal.

...if you don't have the freedom to be left alone.

Or, "You can have that, but don't bother calling America the 'land of the free and home of the brave' anymore."

These people don't deserve freedom. Obviously they don't want it anyway.

I'll give up all my civil rights. There seems to be too many people who apparently think this way.

:banghead: