"the government will not let them build more gas refineries"

Thats what my Repub brother-in-law said when asking him about gas prices.

Just from memory.. I think there have not been any major refineries built since the late 70's. Most (if not all) have been widely expanded, but as far as I can find there is no government restriction stopping them from building new ones, so the oil companies apparently just dont want to build any more (go figure).

I googled it but just got tons and tons of side-tracks.

Is that true?

Are there US government restrictions that stop the oil companies from building new gasoline refineries??

that they weren't allowed to build them as that they don't because they'd have to put in more environmentally friendly processes and such that would cost them more than just running the ones they have.

I could be wrong.

...that's the argument I hear spouted.

They also use the phrase "Not-in-my-back-yard syndrome" when talking about it, too. If you hear that phrase, it's a warning sign you're talking to a dittohead.

Funny how they never address the fact that chemical plants and concrete factories get built all the time, but they're no safer than a refinery.

Make sure you ask: What incentive does any oil company have to build a refinery if it's going to make gasoline prices drop?

I haven't heard a good answer for that one yet.

Great point about all the chemical plants that have been built.

And the oil corps not wanting to do something that would lower gas prices is an excellent 'well Duh!' point that wingnuts can easily understand.

About 20 years ago, the chemical industry complained that regulation was driving the entire industry offshore. One thing that they didn't tell you was that they were building overseas plants to be closer to their new markets. Same thing with oil: new plants are being built overseas to supply new markets.

If they thought they could make money by building them they;d be built tomorrow. I think they are anticipating the decline in availability of crude oil and realize that they will have ample refining capacity in the near future and for all time after that as oil production gradually decreases. Of course it is convenient to blame the government or "environmental wackos" but the fact is with this government do you really believe they'd turn any oil company down?

restrictions on building safe leak proof refineries. But remember every since Reagan deregulated the refineries, the oil companies have been shutting them down all over the country so now they are in few states and production is cut back in order to drive the cost of refined oil products up. Its all smoke, mirrors and stupidity of the american people in the belief oil companies are looking out for the consumers,

Oh, I forgot- Republicans don't so economics- that's why they can't get anyone to work for the administration.

The bottom line is that the long term supply isn't available to justify the investment. That's a big duh... Unlike most Republicans, the oil companies aren't stupid.

Ask him "which is it?".

http://wyden.senate.gov/leg_issues/reports/wyden_oil_report.pdf#search='Wyden%2C%20refineries%2C%20oil%20supply'

And yet the population and GNP continued to grow. I wonder if your brother-in-law has trouble figuring out how that happened too. It's capacity - not the number of refineries.

But refining is only a small part of the price of gas anyway:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/Savinganddebt/Saveonacar/P98745.asp

It's the price of crude dude.

Yet we are selling 1/3 MORE fuel then in 1970? WHY? Because the Gasoline Stations are that much bigger, more pumps more turnover in product (and less overhead). Just like gas stations have become bigger, the Refineries have done the same, less refineries but bigger refineries are suppling more oil products than did the smaller but more numerous refineries of the 1970s.

Now to be honest another part of situation is that the Middle East Countries in the 1970s decided that it was better to get their countrymen employed SO ALL OF THE BIG PRODUCERS BUILT REFINERIES IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES (Thus, for example Kuwait which had NO refineries in 1970, now has the 12th largest refinery). Korea has the TWO largest refineries (and the seventh) largest refineries in the world, Venezuela has the third, Russia the fourth, ninth and tenth, the fifth is in the Virgin Islands. Exxon in the US has the Sixth, Eleventh, (In Texas), Eighth (In Louisiana) and 13th (In Indiana) largest Refineries in the World. Singapore has the 14th largest refinery, and Iran has the 15th largest Refinery. Except for the US Refineries, all of these Refiners were built to Refine and export (or re-export) oil to the US and Europe (and Japan and China).

1. SK Corporation, Ulsan, South Korea, 817,000
2. LG-Caltex,Yosu, South Korea, 633,600
3. Paraguana Refining Center, Judibana, Falcon, Venezuela, 612,750
4. Sibneft, Omsk, Russia, 566,318
5. Hovensa LLC, St. Croix, Virgin Islands, 525,000
6. Exxon USA, Texas, USA, 505,000
7. Ssangyong Oil Refining Company, Onsan, South Korea, 500,000
8. Exxon USA, Louisiana, USA, 483,000
9. Sidanco, Angarsk, Russia, 440,700
10. Norsi, Kstovo, Nitzhny Novgorod, Russia, 437,792
11. BP Amoco, Texas, USA, 437,000
12. Kuwait National Petroleum Company, Mina Al-Ahmadi, Kuwait, 427,500
13. BP Amoco, Indiana, USA, 410,000
14. Shell Eastern Petroleum, Pulau Bukom, Singapore, 405,000
15. National Iranian Oil Company, Abadan, Iran, 400,000

http://www.moles.org/ProjectUnderground/drillbits/5_01/vs.html

Thus there is NO REFINERY SHORTAGE CAUSED BY EPA OR OSHA REGULATIONS, if those regulations were to strict all these corporations will have to do is import REFINED OIL PRODUCTS instead of Crude.

process.

"The Consumer Federation of America said in a recent report that in the past 15 years, more than 70 refineries in the United States were closed. Additionally, its report said, the nation's storage facilities were reduced by nearly 15 percent. Mark Cooper, the organization's research director, said an updated report is expected soon.

"The problem is not crude oil," Cooper said. "It's inadequate refinery capacity and inadequate stockpiles, all of which are the result of decisions made by the oil companies to tighten the market."

http://www.nynewsday.com/business/local/newyork/ny-bzoil313730511mar31,0,4111615.story

From "Mergers, Manipulation and Mirages: How Oil Companies Keep Gasoline Prices High, and Why the Energy Bill Doesn't Help" (March 2004), the Public Citizen report referenced in the Newsday article:

The United States has allowed multiple large, vertically integrated oil companies to merge over the last five years, placing control of the market in too few hands. The result: uncompetitive domestic gasoline markets. Large oil companies can more easily control domestic gasoline prices by exploiting their ever-greater market share, keeping prices artificially high long enough to rake in easy profits but not so long that consumers reduce their dependence on oil ...

The largest five companies operating in the United States (ExxonMobil, Chevron Texaco, ConocoPhillips, BP and Royal Dutch Shell) now control:

14.2% of global oil production (nearly as much as the entire Middle East members of the OPEC cartel).
48% of domestic oil production (which is significant given the fact that the U.S. is the 3rd largest oil producer in the world).
50.3% of domestic refinery capacity.
61.8% of the retail gas market.
These same five companies also control 21.3% of domestic natural gas production.
It is therefore little wonder why these top companies enjoyed after-tax profits of $60 billion in 2003 alone.

These figures are in stark contrast to just a decade ago, when the top five oil companies controlled only:

7.7% of global crude oil production.
33.7% of domestic crude production
33.4% of domestic refinery capacity.
27% of the retail market.
In addition, in 1993, the top five U.S. companies controlled only 12.7% of domestic natural gas production.
The major difference between 1993 and 2003 is that the largest oil companies have merged with one another, creating just a handful of oil monopolies that control significant chunks of the American oil and gas markets. Armed with significant market share, companies can more easily pursue uncompetitive activities that result in price-gouging ...

Gasoline prices are rising because of uncompetitive actions by this handful of new mega-companies, not because of environmental regulations ...

The U.S. Federal Trade Commission (FTC) concluded in March 2001 that oil companies had intentionally withheld supplies of gasoline from the market as a tactic to drive up prices -- all as a "profit-maximizing strategy." These actions, while costing consumers billions of dollars in overcharges, have not been investigated by the U.S. government.

... Since 2001, President Bush has been removing more than 100,000 barrels of oil a day from the market to stock the SPR , filling it by more than 100 million barrels since he's been in office to over 640 million barrels -- well more than 90% capacity. President Bush's actions, while providing more than enough protection against external supply shocks, severely strains domestic supplies for the market."

reknown author Dave McGowan weighs in on this story, with a lot more detail, he's a brilliant read and source of information. http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr59.html

All of this is reproduced with explicit permission.

Each and every one of these oil refineries should be co-opted and put under worker control. Workers in respective refineries could appoint worker councils to manage daily operations. Then the workers could appoint liasons to reach out and coordinate with other refineries in the area to set a uniform level of production that'll satisfy consumer needs in the area. Another set of liasons could be appointed to coordinate activities on a national level.

the bases they close. Government controlled gas and oil. A bushco dream come true.

perhaps he should complain to them .

except for a brief period after jeffords
switched parties from 2001-2002.