Help! My husband's 17-year-old nephew wants to join the Army

He has idealistic notions about our role in the world and hopes to get into the Special Forces.

Nothing I have said has dissuaded him.

Certain family members are saying, Well, he isn't doing very well in school, he has no other direction or goals, this might be a way for him to find his way.

To which I reply, Well, maybe ten years ago that might have been a suitable choice, but now he'll be sent to Iraq (or Iran, or Syria), and, even if he survives physically, he'll come back a psychological wreck.

Does anyone know of a veterans' group that might send an Iraq veteran to tell him what it's REALLY like?

I feel that it's my duty to at least give him some convincing evidence to the contrary.

His immediate family is clueless and he has been influenced by a friend's redneck father.

he just came back from Afghanistan, and the first thing he told his uncle is... we were right, AKs make a distinct sound when fired at you... and there is something wrong with the kid.

There are some, I hate to say it, that you cannot disuade, but contract any Veterans for Peace organization. As I was putting it yesterday, every generation our youth needs to lern, war ain't no game.

Thanks!

He wants to kill people; he should be locked up.

...sending this kid to the other side of the world to kill some Iraqis who never did anything to America because they think doing so will will give him some direction or goals and help him find his way.

They must figure it is alright because them Iraqis are brown and talk funny anyway.

I think they are the ones who need to be placed into a rubber room ASAP.

A 17 year old kid doesn't know any better.

Thats why they call it the INFANTry.

Don

nuff said.

At age 17, as now, I held that I would take my own life before serving in the US military.

core of most people. At 17 kids want to be in special forces because SOCOM is fun... they want to be football stars because they make oodles of money, our society in general does not encourage kids into other pursuits such as science, research and education... and yes I would love to see PhD the game, for the XBOX, but I doubt you will ever see it.

and yes I would love to see PhD the game, for the XBOX, but I doubt you will ever see it.

Of course they might have to make some adjustments to the game to make it marketable.

"Player 1, Professor Jones rejected your thesis, go and firebomb his house"

a "normal" adolescent male's disrespect for authority, and hatred of being ordered around. But I guess times have changed!

Even in the best of days the military as a 'job' is not much better than Walmart on a good day. Tell him to preview the stuff that's required of special forces, it's a blistering array of super human physical and mental requirements and they aren't looking for kids who don't do well in school. The military doesn't help young men and women find goals as give goals to those who are too skittish or lazy to develop their own.

He took some written test, plans to take it again and increase his score.

He has talked about this off and on for years.

will not get him special forces or any other area that he necessairily wants. The recruiters will tell him he can qualify for things that they later change on him. The military reg's deny this is possible but it happens all the time. He'll want this, they'll tell him his score is good for that and then they'll change his MOS on him. Anybody tells you different, don't believe them.

I'm thinking you might contact Veterans for Common Sense: www.veteransforcommonsense.org. They might be able to provide some assistance though with a 17 year old who thinks spec ops troops are the answer to much of anything I don't know.The above for what it's worth, I really know little of the organization other that that thy exist and their name is at least hopeful. Good Luck.

will check it out.

If yes, sign him up.

If not, educate him but realize that service is often then best alternative to trying to make it in this world with only a high school diploma.

I know, I'm a vet and went in the service for the same reasons.

and his mother is clueless and dysfunctional. Highly doubt that she has EVER voted.

I know service has worked for a lot of people, but, having worked in the '80s with Vietnam vets as a drug counselor at a VA clinic, I have seen all too many for whom it didn't work.

let him hand it out to people who have lost legs, arms, vision, sanity.

There is nothing like it in the world. Then, he can make up his own mind.

There was one particularly depressing one-- I used to say that there should be a sign above the gates-- "Abandon all hope, ye who enter here."

nothing to look forward to in life. All their dreams, lives, and bodies shattered.

beside infantry, armor, munitions or something that is going to land him in a war zone carrying a gun.

Plenty of support and technical roles. Of course they can always end up in the cross fire.

The sad fact is, that part of the fallout of this economy is that people have fewer and fewer choices and the military is a viable alternative for many.

My partner's nephew joined the army without telling anyone. The recruiter told him he had only a 50-50 chance of ending up in Iraq. After much gnashing of teeth and rending of clothing, he went off to basic training.

He came home for Christmas with his orders: He is shipping out to Korea! Yeah!

We realize this is only a temporary reprieve, because troops are rotated through different areas, but at least he avoids the meatgrinder for a tour.

in life?

We refused to sign, mainly because we believed he should be the one to make the decision (This was before the war in Iraq.) He wasn't going to go in until he was 18 anyway, so he could sign for himself and neither blame us, nor give us credit, for his decision. When he turned 18, he changed his mind and went to college but played around so much, especially after he pledged a fraternity, that we pulled the plug on financing after the first semester. He got a job but screwed that up, too, due to his affinity for a certain weed. He's a bright kid, too, who was raised to be responsible, but there's only so much that parents can do.

After he turned 19, he went ahead and joined the Marines. He was playing video games at a Best Buy (apparently stoned, as he told us later, though he says that was the last time) when the recruiter caught him. He went in without a contract and his high ASVAB scores got him an MOS in computers. He's been in Japan for the past 16 months, a relatively safe assignment. However, just a couple of weeks ago, he was witness to an accident during convoy training in which one Marine was killed and three others seriously injured, so no assignment is completely without risk.

He didn't join the Marines in order to go to college -- he knew we would pay for it if he kept his grades up (something he'll have to do for the military assistance, too.) He readily admits that he joined the Marines to become a man -- that he knew he could do it on his own but he was too lazy. Amazing logic, really.

We certainly told him how we felt about it -- we're supportive of military service but not how it's been used in this war -- but he's a stubborn guy and nothing we said was going to change his mind. He wouldn't even consider another branch because in his mind, the Marines represent the best (something I seriously doubt after he took me to see Jarhead last week!)

My son's recruiter didn't lie to him but, like I said, he's a smart kid. It's because he did so well at MOS school that he could choose his assignment in Japan. (Others from his class ended up in Iraq.) He still has two more years, 14 months after he gets back from Japan, so he's not "safe" yet.

If I knew the magic words that would dissuade your nephew from joining, I'd let you know. You might get in touch with Military Families Speak Out (www.MFSO.org) They were very helpful when my son had a change of heart after seeing Fahrenheit 9/11. They have several members who are active and recently discharged veterans.

Good luck to your nephew!

My nephew went away to college, joined a Navy ROTC program. Loved it. Loved the commadarie, loved the gung ho military stance. But he is an excellent student and studies became more important than 6am training sessions. He ended up with mono and dropped out of the ROTC program. All of his family are pleased that he has decided against the military, for now. He may change his mind when he graduates.

Maybe joining a ROTC program would help your nephew decide if the military is something he really wants to do.

they take very few even with new direct enlistment.

http://www.training.sfahq.com/qualifications.htm

The military has a great deal of allure to young people who have a lot of bad things to get away from, a history to leave behind, and maybe a new chance to be someone others will respect. It appeals to young men on several gut levels, and the chance of dying or losing a foot isn't one they contemplate.

Why do they ride motorcycles with no helmet or protective gear?
Because it's not gonna happen to ME!

I don't think you can do more than say ONCE YOU ARE IN THE MILITARY, THEY OWN YOU. Everyone is expendable in the military. Everyone belongs to the military. Rights you have as a citizen, you leave behind when you raise your right hand. They OWN you.

And let me tell you, as soon as you're IN, they let you know it.

As you correctly note:

"... ONCE YOU ARE IN THE MILITARY, THEY OWN YOU. Everyone is expendable in the military. Everyone belongs to the military. Rights you have as a citizen, you leave behind when you raise your right hand. They OWN you. ... and as soon as you're IN, they let you know it."

Quite so. That's why they call them GIs - Government Issue. No need to kid yourself. You're just another part of the inventory.

... as soon as you lower your right hand!

Don't Ask.
Don't Tell.
Don't touch yourself.

You can be court martialed for standing-up to salute yourself.

Talk about a "dishonorable discharge"!

Maybe THAT would do it!

"It's part of my body, and I can wash it as fast as I want."

(Old Marine joke)

I'm a retired Navy Chief, and I've seen kids like him and they never take those kids. Special Forces need self starters that are also team players, in other words kids with discipline and a good sense of observation and common sense. They don't take "Mavericks" or video-game couch heroes. They take kids that are in or able to go to college, "Boy Scouts" - ones that have held down jobs and have proven that they can follow through with opportunities and remain calm under fire. They take kids that have done a tour or two and have shown that they can be trusted and that they have that quality that they are looking for.
If he makes it through boot-camp without pulling too much of a 'tude, he'll be a regular grunt, maybe convoy guard or motor pool. If he's got some science ability, they might take him as a medic or tech type.
Check with Iraq/Afghanistan Veteran's Organization, formerly Operation Truth, for some information of what he will actually face, and the support he can be looking forward to once he gets home...

http://www.iava.org/index2.html

There are also a lot of Veterans for peace organizations as well as some other Veteran's support organizations out there.

I can't say whether or not it's the worse thing he can do. There are other options, even within the military structure if he's totally directionless in life.

But I can safely say that no matter what the recruiter will tell him, he's not getting into Special Forces right off the bat unless he makes a total 180 change of attitude, and in my experience, if he's 17, that's not going to happen anytime soon. He's not going to "just get what he wants", no matter what the recruiter tells him. He'll get what the Army needs him to get.
If he joins, he'll probably have to do at least two tours to knock some direction into him before he'll be able to make the cut for Special Forces. That's a good three-four years down the road.

Is he willing to do that?

I'd recommend he chuck his Army Special Forces wish list and join the Navy or the Coast Guard for some serious schooling, if he has the ASVAB scores.
If he can get an advanced technical rating, there's a good year or two on top of his basic training of schooling in front of him before he gets sent out. Things might have settled down somewhat by then. He can use that time to get his head together and if he still wants to go into Army Special Forces, he has a better base to build up to the qualifications.

If I were you, I wouldn't try to "talk him out of it" - that will just get his back up. I'd try to tell him the truth and discuss his options - what he'd be willing to do other than Special Forces - if he was to join the military.

The recruiters will tell him anything to get him to sign up, and then it doesn't matter what he thought he signed up for - there's always the out on the contract that allows the Army to put him in the billet they want if the billet he wants changes qualifications or is no longer open. And they'll tell him his billet "Is No Longer Open" when he's trapped in Boot camp, guaranteed.

Good Luck. It's tough when they don't know what they want to do and they still seem to have the maturity level of an eight year old but are in a 17 year old body.

Haele

I do appreciate it.

You know what made me decide against it?

1) The recruiter couldn't find my preferred specialty in the directory. It was something along the lines of Public Information Officer.

2) I caught the recruiter lying to me. He told me something stupid, like I'd never be required to do more than 30 push-ups in a row. Ever! Even as punishment!

3) It became clear that anything I agreed to I was stuck with. Anything the military agreed to was flexible. They could try to give me a certain specialty, but wouldn't guarantee it. They would be able to keep me in the service for at least a certain amount of time, but they could force me to stay in longer if they wanted to.

4) The Nuclear Submarine Program-- they have an associates degree in Nuclear Physics to teach you to run a nuclear reactor. They wanted to put me on a tin can with a nuclear reactor run by Community College graduates.

5) The recruiter was a moron. When he was "helping" me fill-out my forms, he asked me what religion I was. I told him I was Jewish. So, he wrote "Jew's Churches" in the religion spot.

There was no way I was going to trust those people with my life.

I didn't even know about the ban on masturbation at the time.

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Tell him to try to get into a field that he can use outside of the military. I considered joining. I was college bound so I applied to West Point. When that didn't work out, I considered the National Guard or ROTC, but I went out of state to a college where they didn'thave ROTC. I scored in the top 10% of all the sections which I was told qualified me for anything. I think that even with average scores though there are lots of options though.

or check it out yourself, and print out some of the materials there for him to read.
Here in red state hell, my library actually had copies of their pamphlet called ""The Military's Not Just a Job... It's Eight Years of Your Life!: What You Should Know Before Joining the Military". It's very very good, and also includes the names and websites of other organizations to contact for "free counseling and more information about what recruiters might not be telling you". One pamphlet is called "So You Want to Be a Man...".

They have 12 reproducible pamphlets in English, and 2 in Spanish, all available on their website. Click on "educational resources".

http://www.projectyano.org/

when you push on a teen-ager, you back him into a corner to show his independence and to refuse to change his mind

that's how i was, that's how most teens are, it is to do w. a need to separate yrself from adults and to become your own adult

i think you need to stand back, shrug yr shoulders, act like you don't give a crap

if you stop pushing, and the kid is no longer getting a rise out of you, he can back down if he wants to back down

and if he does join when he's 18, the choice will be HIS, not a reaction to adults trying to run his life