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Even if it was possible...Would someone explain to me WHY

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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:11 PM
Original message
Even if it was possible...Would someone explain to me WHY
you want Bushit impeached? We are less than a year awy from Midterms. We need everyone focused on that to win. Chaney is running this country NOW Why give him the WH so HE can DEcide whom he wants in 2008?
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Dave Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think it is the whole law-breaking thing,
which we should stick to even if it is not convenient for us.
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. Perfectly Stated. n/t
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. The only path to impeachment lies through the midterms.
Bush impeachment will bring down Cheney, too, as well as de-base the neocons.Hail impeachment!
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. How 'bout, our civil liberties are at stake?
We NEED to cut them off at the pass! This has got to be an issue, or the cabal will be able to get away with anything. It's time to shit or get off the pot in this country, as far as our party goes.

I think Cheney is either going down in the Fitz investigation or will be forced to retire. He's a dirtbag and I honestly think the shit is about to hit the fan in a very big way.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Cut them off by insisting Congress represents your interests
and exercises it's obligations of oversight. Make sure your Reps hear you and know you are watching them like a hawk. Let them know you expect them to stop acting like a rubber stamp for the criminals in the bush/Cheney malAdministration.

But focusing on impeachment is spinning our wheels. Look at the line of succession. Nothing but more crooks and neocon enablers there. What good is getting the dumbest of them out?

Force Congress to remember who they work for and that you are paying attention and holding THEM accountable for EVERYTHING that goes on in D.C. Without them to hide behind, the bush/Cheney junta would be soundly exposed and neutered.

Impeachment would feel good, for a day or two. And maybe that's one of the reason they did it to Bill... so we would be so tickled at the chance for some pay-back that we would forget the next 40 people in line are just more of the same as bush.
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MaggieSwanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. I had the same thought initially,
but now I think that even if * is impeached, he will never step down. On the contrary, he'll be even more determined to stay for the remainder of the term, and we can watch as the neocons implode.
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sandyd921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. Yes, it's going to be
entertaining to watch them try to squirm their way out of 5 years worth of shit and then... the ultimate implosion!:nuke:

:popcorn:
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MaggieSwanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. Pass some popcorn...
and welcome to DU, sandyd921!

:hi: :popcorn:
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. Lol
he has broken the law
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. The idea would be to impeach but not convict.
Edited on Tue Dec-27-05 09:22 PM by Eric J in MN
That way, Cheney wouldn't become president.

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shraby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. He is STILL wiretapping all of us.
He needs to be stopped now and investigated thoroughly. We want to know who he tapped. Names, names and more names.
Cheney will go down as well because he's as dirty as they come.
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. So what if Cheney becomes president--impeach his ass too.
He's equally if not more guilty of the administration's crimes.

My guess, by the way, is that if the Democrats actually get into a position to impeach the boy king, he will toss Cheney overboard first to save himself so it's quite possible that instead of Cheney we could be getting a Gerald Ford type replacement.
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. pResident Hastert
I require my pResidents to have a neck.

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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
11. WHY?
2160 dead Americans, Thousands and thounds of wounded Americans
Thousands and thousands of dead innocents children, women and men,

WHY?
Cause of LIES LIES LIES

WHY?
Cause you got a President who will lie to you

WHY?
He is the President of a country that can bring total destruction to this world.

WHY?
Cause Hague is waiting. Dont matter how long. It is waiting.
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Unfortunately, there are only 10 people in the country
that know what Hague is...and they are DU!
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Does it matter if they know
It is real, it exist, and the world follow it.
Iraq will one day bring genocide charges against US.
There is no defence
Bring Democracy???
Overthrowing a tyrant?
Fighting terrorist?

Sadly innocents future Americans will be the one to pay for this.
What a fuck up dumb legacy.
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Grrrr
2172 dead Americans not 2160 damn fucking fast
Sick sick every dead American means lots of dead Iraqies sick sick
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. You underestimate us. To say the least.
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. I know he does
10 Duer only know of Hague.
What an insult to this forum of knowledgeable people.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I always enjoy your posts, OV!
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Oversea Visitor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Thanks
I do bite hard or should I say bark. Just too far away to do anything. But out of America lots of changes happening. In Asia people are really piss of at America.

Bush better wake up. He is gambling with the future of the US citizens.
It does not take much to walk the part of anti-Americans.
That is a wrong part. It is really about Bush.
The corporations better wake up.
Piss of consumers is bad for business.
If all this continue the anti-bush will turn into anti-Americans
The top news oversea is bush, his lies, his actions.
The inaction of many countries is partly the confident that the Americans people will correct the course that bush is taking this once great country on.
But time erode patience, how long more before they say enough is enough.
There are already attack on Big Mac, Kentucky Fried Chicken,
This can easily swing to cover every Americans company.
Sadly only the people of America will suffer if world goes that route.
Time is running out.
2006 hopefully with see an awakening.
If not
GOD HELP AMERICA
Maybe the pain she has to go through be short and not so painful.

Bush has twisted everything corrupt everything he is a cancer on the face of this earth.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Biting and barking is needed in these times.
Your opinion is valuable for us... to know how others see the situation. Your view and support is appreciated.

I am glad that you are here with us at DU so you know that so many Americans fight against this corrupt administration.

I do see what you are saying: that it will be easy to start hating Americans if we don't get rid of this criminal administration.

I am GLAD that the top news overseas is about Bush's lies and actions. Because I hope it leaks more and more into our press.

Thanks, OV! And let's all keep biting and barking!

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
13. It's a distraction
Edited on Tue Dec-27-05 09:46 PM by proud2Blib
He has already given up on reforming Social Security (thank God). We need to stop him from executing ANY of the rest of his twisted agenda.

I don't even care if the impeachment doesn't remove him from office. In fact, I hope it doesn't becuase dubya is definitely the lesser of the evils in that office.

Remember how strapped Clinton was during his impeachment? That's what we need to do to dubya. Freeze him, take away his power over the people, watch his popularity rating fall even more. Disable his presidency. THAT is why we need to impeach him.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. not only is it the right thing to do
but also, if Cheney is really running the show, it will not matter, other than to expose him, so may as well do it.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. One does not negate the other.
Impeach now, vote out the rest then.
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Terran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. You don't think it's possible?
How very odd.

And one good reason to give the Presidency to Cheney (not "Chaney") is because he has about a 19% approval rating right now. And he won't do any better than Bush. With Cheney you get to see the evil at the surface.
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troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
20. BECAUSE
He has violated the Geneva Conventions.

Because he has violated the United States Constitution.

Because he has violated law and lied to Congress and the people.

Because he planned and innitiated an illegal, war of aggression.

When a crime is committed, we go after the criminal NOW. We don't wait untill we have an appropriate replacement for the criminal.

If the head of a criminal mob needs indictment, do we hold off because his #2 guy is a worse person? No. We take em ALL down according to their crimes.

A criminal cannot get a "walk" merely by having a worse person as his in-line successor.

By the way, it is spelled Cheney.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
23. Because he broke the law.
Here's two posts I wrote about the subject at brainshrub:

http://www.brainshrub.com/us-banana-republic

It’s official - We Now Live in a Banana Republic.

Last week we heard the shocking news that the President had secretly ordered NSA phone taps without a warrant of any sort of hundreds and possibly even thousands ordinary American citizens making overseas calls over the last 3 years in violation of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) and justified it using a secret legal “finding” from the Justice Department.

Previously, President Bush, in clear violation of various extradition treaties with foreign countries, has secretly ordered the illegal kidnapping from certain foreign countries to others of persons he believed to be terrorists and used another secret “finding” from the Justice Department to once again to justify that order.

We’ve seen the President order that an American citizen, Jose Padilla, who was taken into custody not on a foreign battlefield, but rather in Chicago Illinois - be held in a U.S. Navy brig in South Carolina without a trial, a judge, a jury or even access to a lawyer for three years.

Again this action was also justified by a legal "finding” contrived by the Justice Department.

This illegal detention continued until they were faced with the likely embarrassment that a conservative, largely Republican appointed Supreme Court would force them to release Mr. Padilla. At this point they finally announced charges against Mr. Padilla but these charges had nothing to do with the original reasons for detaining him.

We’ve seen the President order that suspected terrorists captured on battlefields abroad be held in a multitude of secret prisons including at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba ; Abu Gharab, Iraq; in Eastern Europe; and elsewhere without access to an International Red Cross representative and without a proper accounting of who those prisoners are to the IRC.

Those prisoners have been repeatedly subjected to abuse and even torture and a number of prisoners have even died as a result of their treatment.

More legal “findings” from the Justice Department were used to justify these actions that are in clear violation of the Constitution’s prohibition that “no person may be subjected to cruel and unusual punishment” and that are in violation of other Federal statutes and international treaty obligations.

We’ve even seen the President and Vice President lobbying to stop Congress from passing anti-torture legislation until last week when they were faced with the embarrassing prospect of Congress overriding a Presidential veto.

We’ve seen the President lie to both the Congress and the American People about the reasons for starting a war, and then attempt to silence his critics through Nixonian tactics such as the illegal outing of the identity of CIA agent Valerie Plame.

We’ve seen the Administration use our government to fund and distribute covert propaganda both here and abroad.

We’ve seen the Administration use our government to illegally collect information on air travelers without a warrant where no probable cause existed to justify these illegal database searches.

We’ve seen the Administration attempt to create Orwellian government propaganda offices such as the Office of Strategic Influence and Orwellian government research programs such as “Cities that See” in an attempt to use computers and cameras to track the movements of everyday ordinary citizens as they walk down city streets.

Never has any American President committed so many illegal, immoral and unconstitutional acts. Never.

Even Richard Nixon at some level understood that wiretaps without a court order were illegal, unconstitutional and wrong. The Watergate “plumbers” after all were burglars, not government agents acting behind the shield of official protection.

President Bush acts as though the Constitution were a hindrance, a burden, and an obstacle to be worked around rather than understanding that it is his primary duty to preserve, protect, defend and obey the Constitution.

He uses often-secret legal findings by his Justice Department to give the appearance of propriety while denying the third branch of government, the Federal Court system, any say in the matter. He never gets these Justice Department findings approved by the Congress, the Courts, or the people.

These fiat findings and executive orders are but one step removed from “because the King said so” and circumvent the very checks and balances the Founders intended for our protection.

The President swore an oath before God and the American People “to the best of his Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”

The President is fond of telling us that his number one priority is the protection of the American people and he repeated this claim yet again recently to a PBS reporter.

His oath of office however makes no mention of protecting the American people, nor does the Constitution charge him with that responsibility.

This, at first, may seem odd but the Founding Fathers understood well that tyrants often justified their actions on the basis that they were acting in the best interest of protecting the people.

They did not fight a revolution to remove themselves from the clutches of one king only to appoint a different king to take his place. They wanted a democratic government. They wanted an open government where effective checks and balances protected both the rights of the majority and the rights of the individual against those would be tyrants.

Protecting the American people is no excuse for destroying the American Constitution.

Secrecy is anathema to democracy for it denies “We the People” our fundamental right to an accountable government and our fundamental right to make an informed decision at the ballot box.

The President has repeatedly used secrecy to hide his illegal actions from the view of the Congress, the Courts, and most importantly the American people.

That the New York Times was aware of the fact that the President was illegally spying on American citizens without a court order - and chose to withhold that fact from the American public for over a year makes them an accomplice to that crime.

For the New York Times to withhold this information during an election year is in fact an unforgivable sin against the American People.

It is the duty of the press, above all else, to bring such abuses of power to the light of day.

That the President expects us to trust him for an extended period with the expanded and Constitutionally questionable powers that were granted to him under the PATRIOT Act after they expire in December would be laughable were it not so dangerous.

Today is hardly the first “trying time” that Americans have ever known. We should not allow the President to frighten us into giving up our American birthright – the Constitution - and into replacing a free government of laws by a mere dictatorship of men.

That the President has gotten away with so many impeachable offenses for so long is baffling and deeply disturbing. The United States Congress and the Senate investigated Richard Nixon and prepared Articles of Impeachment against him for far less serious offenses.

It is long since time for them to impeach President Bush.




http://www.brainshrub.com/president-wiretap

Listening in without a warrant isn't just impolite, it's a felony.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (USC Title 50 Chapter 36 Subchapter 1) specifically prohibits the government from doing what the President has secretly ordered and it is a serious felony with major penalties.

The President has publicly confessed to this felony on national television. He ordered government agencies to engage in spying on thousands of American citizens without a warrant when the Congress made specific provisions in law to cover all circumstances, even emergency situations so that the government could listen in for up to 72 hours before obtaining a warrant, plenty of time to find and convince a judge.

There is no excuse for this action, yet the President has done so anyways.

That the President has colluded with others to do so, also makes this a conspiracy subject to fine and imprisonment up to 5 years per count under USC TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 19 § 371.

That he has chosen to hide it from the public, the Congress, law enforcement agencies, and the Courts through secret findings and secret orders may also be a case for obstruction of justice under USC TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 73 § 1512 paragraph (b).

The penalties for illegal wiretaps are severe, up to 5 years and $10,000 per count. The President has admitted to reauthorizing this violation of the law 30 separate times and thousands of phone calls have been intercepted.

Did anyone ever see the movie The Firm? I think we've just found the way to shut down the firm of Bendini Lambert and Locke.

The time has come for Prosecutor Fitzgerald to step forward and finally take the gloves off.

It is definitely time for the Congress to convene impeachment hearings.

More information:

FISA Act:

USC Title 50 Chapter 36 Subchapter 1

§ 1809. Criminal sanctions

Release date: 2005-03-17

(a) Prohibited activities A person is guilty of an offense if he intentionally—

(1) engages in electronic surveillance under color of law except as authorized by statute; or

(2) discloses or uses information obtained under color of law by electronic surveillance, knowing or having reason to know that the information was obtained through electronic surveillance not authorized by statute.

(b) Defense

It is a defense to a prosecution under subsection (a) of this section that the defendant was a law enforcement or investigative officer engaged in the course of his official duties and the electronic surveillance was authorized by and conducted pursuant to a search warrant or court order of a court of competent jurisdiction.

(c) Penalties An offense described in this section is punishable by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for not more than five years, or both.

(d) Federal jurisdiction There is Federal jurisdiction over an offense under this section if the person committing the offense was an officer or employee of the United States at the time the offense was committed.


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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:44 PM
Response to Original message
27. Perhaps impeachment will influence the 2006 elections
It's basically about winning all those independent voters who can go either way.
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Maru Kitteh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-27-05 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
28. Simple: It's the right thing to do
No other reason needed.
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
31. JUSTICE
I suppose we should just give up and allow the pirate who took over the ship to stay in charge until he's damn good and ready to leave, and never bother to prosecute. Did somebody just say we let the terrorists win?
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Raydawg1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-28-05 12:47 AM
Response to Original message
32. We have to make an example of Bush for what he did to the Constitution..
If we retake congress, we can investigate Cheney too.
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