Do you favor the death penalty for child molesters?

Let me throw in one caveat: I do NOT mean the 18 year old high school senior who finds himself on the ropes because his 17 year old girlfriend's father decided to call the cops on him. I am talking about real child molesters here.

they shouldn't be murdered by the state. The passed a law in Louisiana that makes rape a death penalty case. A Man was convicted and now he is sentenced to death.

(sorry, I forgot to add the "not" to should.)

Why? What's the point?

Life in prison as a rapist is worse than death.

But killing them is not going to accomplish anything. I would guess that most child molesters don't think about the consequences of their actions.

Let them rot in prison.

What does it matter whether or not they "think about the consequences of their actions"? Does this in any way absolve of them of their responsibility for their actions? I'm sorry, but I just don't get your point.

No matter what, if one is anti-death penalty as I am, regardless of how heinous the crime, you cannot make exceptions.

I believe they deserve to die, but that it's impossible to have a perfect justice system.

If someone murdered or sexually assaulted someone that I love, I might kill them myself, but I don't think the state should be in the killing business.

The death penalty is immoral.
John
Castration might be an option, however.

what a dreary job.

Shoot the idiot who fondles little boys and girls. Kill it before it spreads.

No proof is perfect. No system is unflawed. All legal decisions must be reversal in extreme circumstances. (I used to be a very strong death penalty supporter till I approached it from this angle.)

It costs the tax payers MORE if we decide we want to kill them then it would for them to spend life in prision.

I believe in people being able to evolve, and change over time. Imagine a 20 year old who makes a huge mistake like this... 40 years later when he is 60 you think he'll have the same state of mind? We should try and treat these people with these HORRIABLE defects.

chemically or otherwise, really does no good. Pedophiles don't abuse for sex, it's all about power. I did a thesis paper on this a few years ago. One of my sources was a doc in a prison treatment program in Oregon. He stated they had tried everything to rehabilitate these offenders, except for "Magnum Therapy"......putting a gun to the offender's head and pulling the trigger.

As for the death penalty, no. As an earlier poster stated, life behind bars for these animals make them WISH they were dead. Far worse than the death penalty in these cases, count on it!

Jenn

Edited for spelling

No sex drive, no equipment, no more molesting for him.

To support such a punishment requires the assumption of a flawless justice system.

:puke:

:thumbsdown:

Given that the judicial system is flawed, you have to allow room for reversal of a decision. You can't reverse an execution.

Using your logic:

Who cares if innocent people get punished? It's the price of freedom!

:puke:

:thumbsdown:

and a past history of the same type of behavior, yes, cut it off, lock him up for a while, then work on rehabilitation.

Read response 52.......it isn't about sex or drive, sexual child abuse is about power.

jenn

For the rest of their lives.

I Voted To Kill 'Em - If There Is No Question Somebody Raped A Small Child They Should Either Work In A Coal Mine For Life Or Eat Lead -

I'm Generally Pretty Compassionate, But Child Rape Is Too Much For Me

There are some very good hardworking people who work in coal mines today. Let's show them a little respect. Of course on the other hand you put a pedophile in there with miners and the pedophile would probably get what was coming to him. If that was your angle then I apologize.

"I do not support the death penalty".

Child molesters, for the most part, are pretty incurable. Just lock them up.

Is Good, If They Are Killed By Someone Inside - Otherwise, What Good Is It To The Molester Or Society? I'd Take The Tax Money To Feed That Bastard And Give It To Education -

People who molest children obviously have problems. Instead of locking them up in state prisons, they should be put into places which will help them.

I was molested as a child by someone in my family. I have often said to Sapphocrat when we talk about it, that it was like the person wasn't their normal self when things were happening. It was like they were another person all together.

Instead of putting that person to death, I would much rather see them get the help they obviously need and rightly deserve.

Any bastard who ruins the innocence of little children deserves to die a miserable death, and not see the light of day.

Sorry if this sounds like it's from Free Republic, but I feel very passionate about this.

the arbiter of who gets to live and who gets to die?

Tell me, would you be willing to carry out those executions yourself? Or do you only support when the state does it, all nice and clinical, so you don't have to?

Before I start this, lemme say up front: I am a bisexual male and am in no way equating homosexuality with pedophilia.

Pedophilia is NOT curable any more than homosexuality is curable. When a straight man looks at another man, he typically holds no sexual interest in that male. This lack of interest doesn't come from any kind of bias, but results from the fundamental genetic "wiring" in his brain...he simply isn't attracted to the same sex. When a gay man looks at another man, he may find himself sexually attracted to the other guy. Why? Because his brain says that sex with another man is perfectly normal, and this guy's a hottie! Straights and gays are just wired differently.

Pedophiles are sort of the same way. Where straights are attracted to the opposite sex, and gays are attracted to the same sex, pedophiles are attracted to youthful sex (it's interesting to note that pedophiles also come in "same sex" and "opposite sex" varieties, with little crossover). Molesting isn't like bank robbing or embezzlement, they can't just stop after spending a few years in jail to "learn their lesson" anymore than imprisonment could stop you from being attracted to the same sex. So long as that fundamental genetic wiring remains in place, a pedophile can never be "cured". That's why so many pedophiles are repeat offenders, and why so few ever end up leading normal lives.

Should pedophiles be killed? If we can be 100% sure of their guilt I'd have to say yes. They have a genetic abnormality that makes them predatory and a lifelong threat to children and society in general. They can't be cured, they'll never really repent for their crimes, and they're never really safe to set free, so what's the point in keeping them locked up for decade after decade?

The most recent theories as to pedophilia and homosexuality is that both are learned not "innate" but once learned are more in the nature of being "hard wired" into the brain than changeable "soft ware" to the brain. This reflects the studies that have shown that in identical twins the possibility of the second twin being Homosexual when the first twin is a Homosexual, is the same as finding any other randomly selected person being a homosexual. These studies tend to disprove that you are born to be either a pedophile or a Homosexual. On the other hand other studies tend to show that adult pedophiles or a Homosexuals (and serial rapist) almost never cease being pedophiles or a Homosexuals (or serial rapists). As to who can become Homosexual the studies have indicated no tendency except for a slight greater tendency for second sons to be Homosexuals than any other family member (I can not find any studies on Serial Rapists or Pedophile and birth order, I suspect they is no connection).

The most recent theory to explain this disparate findings is believe to involve the brain and how the “Snapes” in the brain hardware itself between birth and maturity. Basically the situation is believe to be this: The Brain is a large constantly growing set of "Snapes" that over time become "hard wired". The largest growth occurs after Birth and continues for about nine months (at which time most people first start to talk and walk). The growth of the brain than starts to slow down until your early 20s when brain growth barely covers death of brain cells.

Pedophilia and homosexuality is thus believed to be a "learned" behavior sometime at or just before puberty. The Second Son phenomenal may just be a reaction of the younger brother not being big enough to play with his older brother’s friends and thus feeling rejected. This rejection brings with it a deep desire to be wanted by his brother’s friends so when puberty kicks in the rejected brother wants more to be popular with men than with women. This thus becomes hard wired into his brain and short of a massive shock to the brain (on the order of a terminal shock), he or she is hard wired for life. Similarly a child exposed to sexual abuse has a greater chance of becoming such an abuser himself (Through Serial Rapists seems to just start up as teenagers looking for victims).

Given the above "Brain" basis for these problem, there is some possibilities to “change” a teen who has such tendencies, but almost no possibility to change an adult.

This theory has not been completely embraced by the Homosexual community do to the fact it relies on LEARNED behavior as opposed to being 100% innate, but it is the best explanation of the studies I have read. This is the biggest opposition to this theory but the opposition is more of the nature that they would perfer a 100% innate basis than this hard wired/ learned theory.

As I have said before I use to do Children and Youth Services Defense work, thus I ended up reading a lot of material on Child abuse and how to address and end the abuse. There is strong evidence that both Pedophilia, homosexuality and serial rapist, can be changed starting in early adolescent, but as the child matures that becomes less and less possible till at about age 21 it is almost unheard of. As a heterosexual male this kind of shocked me when I read it but over the years I have accepted it and have learn to advocate (In Pedophilia cases only, I have never had to argue any case involving Homosexaul rights or the rights of Serial Rapists) to separate potential victims from potential prey and that is the best solution to the problem of Pedophilia. Serial rapist are almost always addressed in the Criminal Justice System and since I do not so Criminal work I have not had to address it either.

My point is that while you are correct that ADULT can not be changed, their is some possibility for any young victims of abuse so that they themselves do not become abusers of other children.

Not aware of a lot of us here at DU! :hi:

...this lazy mixing of terms.

A child molester is someone who has molested a child. They are not necessarily clinical pedophiles. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but clinical pedophiles (sexually attracted to prepubescents) may actually be a minority of molesters, the others being people with "power and boundary problems" because they have access, the kids are comparatively easy to dupe or intimidate, etc.

I also fear "bracket creep". Even though this isn't "supposed" to be about teenagers and their lovers, that's where any such law on these lines would end up being mis-applied.

Is DU become the FREEP annex because the smart ones have gotten tired of Bush...

Against state-sanctioned killings---period.

Give 'em cable and a small room with bars permanently...

that's my vote

WTF? Seriously Man, If One Of Your Children EVER Gets Molested, You'll Change Your Tune So Frikkin' Fast You Won't Believe It -

Some Things Can NOT Be Forgiven.


Or Maybe It's Just The State Sanctioned Part You Have A Problem With - No Bother, I'd Do It For Free

For scarring children for life?

What the hell kind of person are you? Those sons of bitches deserve hard labor and minimal food, not labor.

But then again, I don't like preemptive war either.

I don't know the answer; I'm sorry its even a valid question, but it is. There appear to be people who exist for nothing more than to hurt others. Many of those people, even if castrated, would still desire to harm others and would find a way to do so, with or without an erection.

I don't care what for, by whom or what to.

n/t

I would rather throw a bomb into the headquarters of one of those companies, who sell their disgusting chocolate bars with the tits of 14 year old girls. Or should I choose one of those companys, who sell cosmetics and use 13 year old girls painting them as if they would be 18. This whole bigot anger against child molesters has much more to do with the moral state our societies are in than with real anger.
The more guilty, adults feel about what they have done, the more they celebrate the innocence of children. The number of child molesters is about equal for many many decades, it rather gets smaller than bigger. If you want to save children, rather sentence the next car you see to death. And all of them were victims before, nearly all of them were abused as children. They should be punished but not harder or safter than anyone else. Most people, who just shout "kill them, hang them, whatever" are not interested in what happened to this children at all. It's the most popular excuse for releasing you own sadistic feelings, nothing more.
Hello from Germany,
Dirk

Selling Chocolate With Underage Titties Is Deplorable - However, It's Not The Same As Being Violated By An Adult Against Yer Will At 6 Years Old Either, Is It? If People Can't See The Line In The Sand On That, Then Where The Hell Do You Draw It? No One Ever Should Be Killed For Their Actions? That's Not The Way I Do Business...

I Guess We'll Have To Agree To Disagree

here in Germany, it was just like everyone was shouting kill him, hang him, whatever (according to the german media).
He spent his childhood in a german concentration camp with his jewish mother. And he was misused there uncountable times. It's just like a perfect example for what Freud called "Wiederholungszwang".
Through that whole court, I just thought lock this guy, so he can't do it again, but make his life as good as it can be behind locked doors.
The same people, who couldn't care less, if a decision of their governments kills millions of people, are the first to make themselves feel, as if they would be human beings, when they can get annoyed with child molestors. And yes, I would rather bomb this companies, 'cause they have a choice, most of the child molestors never had. They're just cynic without any frontier.
Dirk

that way their fellow constituents can treat them in the same manner that they treated their victims.

I know most people have been following the Abuse cases in the Catholic church, but non-relative abuse is the exception, the generally rule is such abuse is done by male relatives of the victim (Who had also been abused by other male relatives, thus it runs in families).

Thus you have the most common dilemma that courts face when dealing with Child abusers, how do you punish the abuser more than the victim?

Remember the Victim is a CHILD and thus generally financially dependent on his parents for support. Woman are earning more money today, but Fathers still tend to earn more money than mothers.

The Courts will separate the Child from the abuser (This is generally done by Children and Youth under a Civil Clear and convincing evidence standard NOT the Criminal beyond a reasonable doubt standard). The courts will order the Abuser (if it is a parent and that is more often than not) to pay child support. How can the father pay child support if he is in jail? How can he do so if he has been executed? The answer is he can not. Thus if you Jail the father, he ends ups with three meals a day and a warm bed, while his child is out on the street do to lack of financial support.

This is the main reason why most abusers are NOT punished, any punishment of them (except ordering them to pay support and/or fines) hurts the child more than the abuser. This does not apply to non-family abusers, but those are a small minority of abusers, with family female abusers exceeding non-family abusers.

The last time I saw the stats it was something like 90% Relatives, 80% male, 10 % female or undetermined, and 10% non-relatives. Sad fact, but that stat reflects my experience when I was defending parents in CYS cases (Mostly neglect in the cases I handled, followed by Physical abuse but I did have a few sexual abuse, all males, all relatives of the victim).

But Consider This - Kill The Abuser, Take The Tax Money You Would Save From The Life Prison Term And Help Pay For The Child.... Obviously, This Would Take Serious Changes In The Legal System, But It's An Idea

Where do you think the money for your proposal is going to come from? the Prison system? Do to what I said in my previous post very few abusers go to jail, thus little savings do to lack of Jail time.

Now I did the Civil part of CYS, I did not prosecute the abusers (The burden at a CYS hearing is did abuse or neglect occur and the burden is only preponderance of Evidence and the sentence is just enough to make sure abuse and/or neglect does not occur again).

As to the criminal charges of Sexual Abuse (Which is what we are talking about) it is hard to prove BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that such abuse occurred. You have two areas of doubt, first did the abuse occur? The victim may say it occurred, but that may be imprinted into the child's mind by the Child Protective Services. The second Defense did the person the child claims did the abuse really did it? Remember the prosecutor must prove BOTH BEYOND a reasonable doubt. Reasonable doubt to both comes into play for generally the only testimony that abuse occurred AND that the abuser did is the testimony of the Victim (There may be some medical evidence to support abuse occurred but not who did it i.e. anal and/or vagina scars in the cases I dealt with in CYS, but that goes to the issue of did the abuse occur NOT to the issue of who did it).

The younger the child the less you can rely on the child's testimony (The younger the Child the easier it is to convince them that what did NOT happened happened). Generally there are only two persons who know of the abuse, the victim and the abuser. The abuser is denying the abuse. The victim is saying it happened, but young children will often repeat what adults told them happened. Thus Young children are the least reliable witness and thus this is the first defense in criminal charges and the main reasons most abusers are NOT charged criminally, but are listed in various state registry as potential abusers and Under CYS orders told to stay away from any and all children. Such orders can be issued under CYS authority and proof of such abuse shown just by preponderance of evidence. Violation of such orders can jail the abuser on a Contempt charge (Easier to prove beyond a reasonable doubt than the abuse itself).

Anyway, JAILING the abuser does NOT solve the problem of Financial support for the Victim, the main problem in most abuse cases.

and forunately I join most of the civilized world in the sentiment.

I realize that is an illicit appeal to the masses... but, what the hell.

I think we should execute God. Staple his ass to a f****** big ass tree as punishment and atonement for creating so much misery and teasing us with just a little bit of good.

We hang God/he/she/it there, torture a bit, and make that the last time anybody hurts anyone else, after all, we got the guy responsible for it all.

Then it's quits, we all behave nicely to each other, and to hell with the naysayers.

.

God got disgusted and we haven't seen him/her since.

Is child molestation something that never happened in pre-historic times? Somehow, I doubt it.

It is odd that this would not have been a higher level abomination, than say, "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods".

Did God mess up?

My vote...lock them away for society's sake as well as their own.

The ten Commandments was written for the time period it was given to Moses in, thus legal concepts of the time are reflected in the ten commandments.

For example Rape is not addressed at all in the Ten commandments, for Rape fell under two other commandments, first you could NOT steal from another (and that included the sexual use of another's property, his children, his servants etc. At that time period to use another's property in such a manner as to lessen its value was stealing, woman and children were viewed as property and thus sex with them was stealing from their husband and or father).

Second, everyone had a duty to "honor your parents" that included protecting one's own minor children for that was part of honoring one's own parents. Thus abuse within the family was also covered.

When Reading the Ten Commandments remember when it was written and put the words in the context of that time period NOT TODAY. We no longer view women as property of their Husband and or Fathers (or other male relatives). Today any list of Commandments will have to address sexual relations, but at the Time of Moses such sex crimes were addressed by the above two commandments.

argument, I'm afraid. A strict constructionist interpretation would brand your reading as a liberal instrusion on the intent of the writer.....

The convicts themselves will take care of the punishment. Even among thieves and murderers, nothing is lower than a "baby raper".

but there's a further problem here. Invoking the death penalty for any crime short of murder could have the effect of encouraging criminals to kill their victims since, by so doing, they would eliminate the principal witness against them without incurring
any possible additional punishment.

That's A Good Point, And Now Some Humor In REALLY Poor Taste

Necropedophilia - Where Would That Work In?

The only reason that I'd not support this is that they would probably suffer more serving a long-term prison sentence. On the other hand odds are they'd not end up serving with the "sodomites" (to borrow a term from Shawshank), so kill the bastards.

but they should get life in prison without the possibility of parole.

If they do get out of prison they should be castrated, either physically or chemically, so they don't hurt another child.

Sadly because I see no other deterrence to chronic child abuse. The rape and torture of minors is still the No 1 conscious recreation of the sickest and most evil slimebags on plant earth.

Even chemical castration implants do not rectify the life sentence of those who have been victims of paedophilia.

Electronic implant tagging should also be mandatory for all sex offenders on parole or after sentence completion. To warn the vulnerable of the predators that masquarade as 'normal' people.

Studies in the UK have shown that 98% of all sex offenders are serial recidivists who never actually 'recover' from any form of therapeutic treatment and that loss of liberty is still no deterrence to compulsive reoffending.

Actually you guys are onto something with the castration thing.

Turns out that 90% of violent criminals who undergo castration surgery never commit another violent crime in their life.

Not a bad solution for criminals who opt for it.

but they'd have to get round the human rights aspects of this one by saying serial recidivists forfeit theirs: 2 hits and you're out kinda thing...

I mean, Don't Get Me Wrong, Compassion Is All Good And That - A Good Liberal, That Is All For No Death Penalty Is Fine As Well - But Pull Yer Heads Out Of Your Ass - I Think All Of You That Say It's All Kosher That Someone Gets Life In Prison For Such An Abomination Neeeds To Really Think About Their Convictions --- To Me, It's Like You Don't Believe In Anything, And That's Not Democratic At All....

Strong Beliefs Define Us All, Without Them We Are Sheep

one of my problems with Dean.

i support long prison terms in these cases followed by strict supervision.

I'm opposed to the death penalty in all cases, but here are some specific reasons why child molestors shouldn't get it:

1. They didn't kill the child. Most arguments for the death penalty are "an eye for an eye". Most of them will get that in prison.
2. The perpetrator is frequently a relative. The child would feel some guilt at some point for having come forward, if the perp is put to death. The child will have enough problems without having this. He or she will also be able to confront the abuser later, if they need to for therapeutic reasons, if that person is alive and safely incarcerated.

If the perp is an older kid, he can still be worked with in the juvenile system. We can't be writing off 15 year olds for this type of crime, because for the most part, they were victimized and are acting out on this.

I support the death penalty for death penalty advocates.

You can't "get these people help"

Their sexuality and drives are probably as hardwired and unchangable as homoseuals, heterosexuals, or damned near anyone else.

If they are molesting children, aside from the utter heinousness of the crime itself, chances are they are going to do so again.

Go ahead and flame me, I'm wearing asbestos shorts today!

the longer version is much more horrific. Child molesters end people's lives. They may or may not kill them but they scar that person for the rest of their lives.

but I think they should be committed to some kind of institution that keeps them away from children.

If you're using the death penalty to punish the criminal then you're not punishing him. He's dead. What does he care? Punishment over. Oh... he may care up until the time that he's actually dead... but after that point, he doesn't care anymore.

Even if you're a Christian and you belie that the criminal will be punished in the "afterlife"... it's my understanding that one can enter the Kingdom of Heaven by faith alone... that one need only ask for forgiveness and accept the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Savior and they shall be saved and shall be allowed to enter.

Now... if you belive... that sounds like a peachy deal to me. Punishment over. Welcome to heaven!

Compared to a lifetime in prison... punishment continues... day after day. Which is the REAL punishment?

Now... if you're asking whether or not the death penalty is in reality nothing more than "REVENGE for the living"... then that's a different matter entirely.

-- Allen


P.S. What's with all the death penalty posts?

arwalden said it exactly right - there is no punishment aspect if they are just zapped and chucked into the ground.

Robert Heinlein, in Starship Troopers, talks about this perfectly. He makes essentially the same point about the death penalty - it is not a deterrant, it does not punish. Consider a dog - if it committed some wrong, and you killed it, what has it learned? Nothing - it's dead.

On the other hand, corporal punishment (getting whipped, etc.) stays with you - the burned hand teaching best, after all.

Maybe if our culture were not so concerned with getting violent revenge on all who wrong us, in whatever degree, we might be able to move beyond barbaric punishments like state-sanctioned murder.

Maybe if our culture were not so concerned with getting violent revenge on all who wrong us, in whatever degree, we might be able to move beyond barbaric punishments like state-sanctioned murder.

:thumbsup:

I think it should definately be a possibility for repeated offenders.