A few questions to women who support women's rights

(on edit: when I originally posted, I excluded those DU men that have been very supportive on women's issues by only addressing these questions to women. My apologies for my own blind spot.)

Is it possible we are wasting our time and money here debating when we should be spending it to preserve those hard earned rights that many other women fought before us in the 50's, 60's and 70's for us to have?

Is it possible that we will never change any minds on DU and that it doesn't really matter since a right to our bodies is a right to our bodies whether other men and women think we should be entitled to a right to our bodies or not?

If this right is removed and further diluted, then where will it end?

If this site is about helping Democrats win but 17 Democratic senators no longer feel we are to be trusted with our own medical decision, then is it time to REVOLT?

Is it time to act rather than post?

Is it time to spend our hard earned resources where they will ACTUALLY provide us legal protection and benefits rather than repetitive debates makindg the same points over and over and over?

Are we wasting our votes for the sake of party unity?

I think we need to decide if we are sisters joined by a desire to continue the hard work of those BRAVE women who fought for our rights, or if we are simply political pawns to be traded off by politicians intent on clutching their power.

If public opinion polls favored removing civil rights for people of color, would we say "Well, the public wants this...sorry black folks?"

Is it time to draw the line and say ENOUGH WE DON'T CARE if you don't like it?

I have been reading the posts on the various issues that involve women and am very surprised and dismayed at some of the comments which are saying, in essence, yes, you have the right but only if we say so! (I am woman, hear me roar!)

that the Democratic party offers more hope for women's rights than other alternatives. I've started getting back involved with women's groups because I think many "progressive" organizations do not support women. I'm angry, too. I guess my opinion comes about watching legislation go through. The Dems usually support women's rights and the repukes do not. After this next election, let's hope there is one, then I'm ready to bolt if the Dems still refuse to support progressive causes.


One day I'm going to publically give the dirt on Lockyer. I was a young intern when he was an up and coming Legislator. I am not surprised that he dismisses Arnie's sexual harrassment.

for some. I guess it isn't only the right wing fundamentalists that have seductive misleading jargon.

I agree that so called progressives do not support women's rights. I'm dismayed that so many posters on DU are anti-choice. I'm furious that so many Dems support this insane law that just passed and a few say a fetus should live even if a woman will die. :eyes:

Then there are all the insane women who voted for Arnie. I get sick to my stomach thinking about it.

We need this NOW!! My God we can't let any more of these mashers get away with this criminal activity anymore especially while they are still in office.

I burned this for you
I can't any more. The old saggy boobs need it. Dont' make it all a waste for me.

I was a 17 year old volunteering for my local congressman. We had a baseball game with Lockyer and his staff. He hit on me which absolutely freaked me out. Offered me a paid internship. Some older women pulled me aside and explained what would happen if I accepted.

Several years later, I was back in Sacto but with more credentials and power. I was then in the position to protect the young women. I don't think he does this now, but I remember and I do not forgive.

but c'mon, wasn't it more of a cross-your-heart, lift-and-separate type bra that you burned? That's a Wonderbra.

Seriously, though, I came up behind you (I'm 43), and if it makes you feel any better, I have never been sexually harassed or treated unequally because of my gender that I'm aware of. Not at work, anyway. Maybe I'm lucky to have worked with men who got the message. Being 6 feet tall helps, too, I'm sure. I'm not saying I haven't seen it happen to other women or the work is done - just that I've never felt limited because of my gender. And that's something, considering I was born and raised in Utah, by parents who still make disparaging remarks about the "Women's Libbers," and lived there until I was 32.

I know who to thank for that, and it isn't the men I've worked with.

I'm also thankful that I've been able to live the last 14 years as a single mom without feeling the need to pair off for financial or social reasons. And while I now realize I could have had that other kid who would now be 20 and sometimes wish I had, I'm glad I wasn't forced to.

I had to take what I could get.:-)

There R other women in our local Democratic Club who look @ him w/ jaded eyes 'n don't trust him. Sounds like intuition scores again!

Or, something like it within the Dem party? Right now I am kind of disgusted with how little our concerns are being addressed.

to reinvent the wheel

ANY and ALL of the effective orgs before it's too little, too late.

I'm saying we need to RE-EVALUATE whether debating this is even worth the energy, and if it isn't then what is?

I am trying to recall if I have EVER seen an opinion on this issue in any thread EVER change. I haven't noticed any DU'er go from pro-choice to anti-abortion.

And I have not seen any "pro-lifers" (although not all believe in the deathy penalty) switch to pro-choice.

If that is the case, then why waste time arguing (for the most part, it really isn't debating) ?

We should formulate a course of action every time this issue comes up that actually makes a difference and post the links in abortion/women rights or other threads of the like.

Arguing it isn't making any difference. If, for instance, every time the topic of women's rights arises, then instead of arguing with minds that won't change or preaching to the choir, we posted informational links on women's rights sites and organizations such as Planned Parenthood, NOW or the like, then those that argue against women's rights or want to change the subject to child support, can continue to hear themselves talk, and those that are pro-choice can act rather than piss in the wind and know they are protecting those rights rather than arguing with minds that won't change and link to "men's rights" sites.

https://member.plannedparenthood.org/site/SPageServer?pagename=donating

althoug I agree all of us have to support more activist organizations. I know I read many threads that I never post in. I see the opinions and re-evaluate my opinion. For instance, I have completely changed my mind about pursuing the gun issue this election cycle. I recognized from posts here that it a losing issue. I doubt anyone on DU even knew how much I had changed on this issue.

I'm not sure I've seen folks change their position, but I have seen a softening of their stance on anti-choice. I also thinks it cements in folks minds when posters like you are adamant about women's rights. I think many, if not most, men think about how the women in their life feel. You do make a difference.

and maybe not even the most important one.

I think discussion of these issues on DU is valuable because dissecting other people's logic helps me to articulate my own position better to others more easily converted and to myself.

And I have seen some pretty rabid anti-abortioners on DU at a loss for arguments even if they weren't outright converted. For every stubborn one there may be ten or twenty lurkers who see the light.

It's a great idea to include links to Planned Parenthood and NOW in an organized way when these topics come up again and again, but I think meeting stupid, thoughtless arguments with consistant reason does make a difference- I've seen it happen on these threads and it doesn't cost much energy or time.

Plus, engaging in these kinds of discussions make me a better arguer in the real world- over the dinner table with family and around the water cooler. The repetition of these threads can get frustrating but thousands of new people join DU each month and not all of them are up to speed.

What we need are feminists in every stage of evolution helping each other up and I think these threads serve that function.

who will listen 2 me rant since steroid boy was anointed. I was so disgusted w/ how the CA dem party brushed aside the groping issue. The Mary Louise Parker character's rant on "The West Wing', a season or 2 ago, when she reads 'Josh' the riot act on the lack of women in the Barlett administration really hit home. "If it wasn't for women, there would be no democratic party because men overwhelmingly vote republican". We need a bigger voice.

Time to move and groove and restore women's liberties, and I invite all men to join!

Just wanted to say that I think the necessary, painful, messy dialogue between women and men begun in the 1970s, when feminism was hot--when a lot of politics was hot--was interrupted by the really big chill begun in 1980. Stuff is bubbling up here from progressive men that went underground, probably, among progressives.

Maybe this thought is too abstract. It's clear that men of all stripes have been able to persist in freedom from challenge on issues of sex and gender because the culture at large dropped a massive wet blanket on raging feminism--on any opposition or critique that was raging. I think--unless I'm just mythologizing here, which is highly likely--that we are reaching a point at which the all opposition must heat up again in order for real progress to be made. The Republicans are forcing our hand, whether they realize it or not.

Better go fix my subject. Thanks for reminding me MANY MEN support women's rights.

You are good comrades, and don't think we don't appreciate it, because we do. :)

I think we're forgetting that ladies. Abortions ARE sometimes medically necessary. How far is the right going to take this? Yes, it's a choice issue, a privacy issue, the right to direct my own life issue. But sometimes it's also a pure health issue. This article made me realize there's a whole lot more at stake here than choice.

http://www.drl.tcu.edu/PoB/PoB_Lectures/social_cognition/attitudes/Who_Will_Do_Abortions.htm

"'My wife,'' said William Rashbaum, a OB-GYN in a large East Coast city, ''told me I owe it to women before I die to make sure others have my skills.'' But training is slow. He said that he can't devote as much time as he would like to since, at age 71, he still shuttles full time between his private office and several hospitals to help with current demand.

While few OB-GYN residency programs routinely teach abortion procedures, many do allow residents to learn it as an outside elective -- at, for example, Planned Parenthood, which arranges for residents in programs that don't teach abortion to rotate through a clinic nearby. But for residents who typically work between 80 and 100 hours a week, the offer of taking an elective course in their ''spare time'' constitutes a cruel joke."

I've been out of the loop for a couple days! I just now had the good sense to go news surfing to see if I could make some sense of WHY all these abortion threads are cropping up tonight. (??!??!??)

I found it. *sigh* I'm horrified. Now I get it.

As I understand it, this is NOT a done deal, and there are many fronts on which to fight this. In fact, the USSC has already ruled that partial-birth abortions are in fact legal.

“In 2000, five Supreme Court justices said that Roe v. Wade guaranteed the right of abortionists to perform partial-birth abortions whenever they see fit. But Congress is now inviting the Supreme Court to re-examine that extreme and inhumane decision,” said Douglas Johnson, legislative director for the National Right to Life Committee.

Senate votes to ban abortion practice

In any event, I would agree that "debating", the issue with antagonists within DU (I use the term debating loosely) is not the best way to really make a difference or effect any action in this issue. It's also true to say it's not for us to CARE WHETHER OTHERS LIKE IT OR NOT. Too fucking bad - their approval is irrelevant.

Keep it up sistahs!

I wish we could do something about pay equity for women - it is still about 75 cents on the dollar of what men make.

And more than the abortion issue, what I find amazing at how the right is pushing this abstinence stuff not only at women in the US, but around the world when it comes to AIDS, etc.

We need more women politicians to stand up for womens' issues.

Maybe this is why Democratic Senators voted to pass this damn bill. Maybe women really won't do anything until we start dieing because nobody knows how to do an abortion. Or until we start seeing domestic violence rise because women feel stuck in abusive relationships because they have too many kids because there's no abortion doctor available in their area anyway. Or until they overturn Roe altogether and suddenly there's back-alley abortions again. How could we not have a huge rally in D.C. yesterday? How could we have allowed this medical procedure to be called a partial-birth abortion in the first place? We can blame our Democratic Senators all we want, but it seems to me we allowed the impression that America was against this procedure to take hold in the first place.

take action maybe we can start the ball rolling again. There are Du'ers QUITE active on this subject...we just need to give them time to show up so let's keep this kicked and inspire the action rather than wait for it ;-)

I'm glad to see more response, I was really getting a little worried there!

Thanks! I have been horrified as well by the seeming trend in this country. I hesitated until yesterday to even read any of this after the Arnold election. We fought hard before, perhaps some of our daughters are unaware what it took. The story does not seem as "out there" as it once was. Yes, there are more females in the workplace, we see them every day on the TV. What are they doing? A lot of giggling, they are mostly there to read and be pretty and to talk about bachelors. You are right, we need to get back to this and soon.

emotionally and financial support.

regardless of what a woman chooses to do with an unplanned pregnancy, she is going to need help before during and after because she might not be getting from her own circle.

abortion references "loans" and support groups, free/low-cost midwives and doulas, diaper drives, baby & maternaty gear swaps. day care, education, friendship, support.

these things are not going to given to us by any law passed by a man-controlled, two-party, status-quo system.

abortions. The MORALITY argument concerning their taxes is the same argument that Reagan and the right wing used to deny funding and support for aids patients.

Meanwhile our tax money pays for death and coups around the world...go figure!

30 years has shown that the government -doesnt really matter whos in office really does not care.

start a women's health collective and a savings account with good interest.

im in a health collective right now and we are going to have a discussion group about abortion. hopefully we can find a young mama too.

i wanna go to law school so that i can help offer legal services to disadvantaged women and women's causes. and in my spare time start a mamashop.

Good luck to you. No one is going to help us just us. We used to do stuff like that but at some point I guess we thought we had taken care of the problem. We should have suspected that the cause would be eroded and we would have to fight it all again.

I, too, am dismayed at some of the responses on DU re: late term abortions. I worry that this is just one step toward banning Roe V Wade. And IMHO, if you can't control your own body, what can you control?

We still need a feminist movement. There are so many issues to deal with -- abortion rights, contraception, child care, pay equity, sexual harassment, etc.

But how can we communicate to Dems that, like people of color, we can't be taken for granted?

My thoughts on the subject have been clarified, my scant knowledge has been added to, and best of all, my daughter has been learning right along with me.

I would join the fight but, as a man, I don't think it's my place. Furthermore, I've got some fights of my own that need to be tended too.

Interesting thought here, however, is that this may be the next in a series of disenfranchised voters who would typically have voted Democratic. It's a sign of the times, I s'pose. Maybe the Dem blanket is not multi-faceted enough to include all of the views it would like to to. That's a good thing, I think. It signals radical change on the horizon.

nothingshocks, your posts in the earlier abortion threads I found right on point. Keep up the good work.

DON'T feel that way.
17 Democratic Senators have linguine spine, and believe that the vast majority of their constitutents believe that way.
Remember, a politician's job number one is to get re-elected. This is classic sell-out, and all politicians, on both sides of the aisle, are guilty of it.

When's the last time you saw a politicain stand up against the majority and be a leader, and make some unpopular decisions, knowing full well that, while it was best for America...it might cost him his political career?

The days of strong-willed politicians standing up for what is right is over.

I think Zell Miller is the only Democratic Senator who really DOES feel that way...then again, Zell isn't really a Democrat, anyway. He just carries the label. A real wolf in sheep's clothiing. Zell might as well bolt the Party, he has practically broken his neck to caucus with the Repukes on everything.

is to stop looking towards politicians's, including Dem pols, to be our saviours because they're not going to do so out of the goodness of their hearts. IMO, in order to make sure that Dems vote in our interests, we have to make sure that they have an interest in doing so, and that there's a price to pay for not doing so. This requires a degree of political organization that will not come about by simply waiting for Dem politicians to do it for us.

Make the CONSEQUENCE for NOT representing us greater than those Luntz polls suggest!

and a *kick*

he had to do the best of several evils and look where it got him. I'm not saying you are wrong, but it makes me stand back and ponder.

as our votes more with bush than not (or so it seems since 911) senator (DLC chair, Bayh) voted for the ban. We discussed the 'exception language' - looks like there is some wiggle room - in which case the whole thing looks largely symbolic. Which made us even more frustrated, as the symbolic nod - was towards pumping up an "issue" that appears (by reports from the professional organization for obstetricians) to be pretty much a nonissue (very, very rare; and associated with health reasons) but to fire up the religious right troops (build pre-election momentum). It also signals a (largely symbolic) waivering in commitment to protecting womens' rights in favor of the wishes of the religious right (er.. talibornagain.) Very, very discouraging.

where?? i hail from valparaiso.

I am down in Bloomington - though do quite a bit of work up in Indy.

The term "Abortionist" grates on my nerves like "Partial Birth Abortion".

Why is it that "Abortionist" is an acceptable term, but call George Bush a "Facist" and all of a sudden you're a "Leftist".

Not that I mind being a "Leftist". I AM left of "Centrist".
However I think that the real "Leftists" might justifiably be concerned that their term is now being applied to people like me.

Of course, you're not JUST a "Leftist" if you call George Bush a "Facist" - you're a "Extreme Wacky Leftist" and that's just not right.

The Senators who voted for this bill are very lucky I am not allowed to call them "Gynocidists".
(Gyn for women, cid for murder etc. Pronounced Gin (like the drink)-o-side-ists)

guy-no-side-ists.

unless you are trying to play on "genocide." funny how they are practically the same, just replace the e with a y.

I'm don't think "gynocide" (with the "o") is a real word.
I think the real word is "gynecide" or something like that.

Polygyny isn't pronounced poli-GUY-me so I say gynocidist can start with a "gin (like the drink)" sound but I can see where a purist would prefer they traditional GUY since the syllable comes at the beginning of the word.


------------------------
http://gore2004.meetup.com
Because Democrats remember

edited by Jill Radford and Diana E. H. Russell, Twayne Books, 1992.

I bought it two years ago, paperback, $16.95. Best overall book on the terrifying extremes of violence against women you'll ever want to read.

I've been involved in two political groups recently, and both have fizzled. I have an excess of political energy and would just love to see something take off. My BA is in women's studies, and I've got a master's in . . . well, in. . . something relatively close. :-) I ain't no dummy!

And I am militant and radical and hell bent for election.


And on DU, I am. . . .

Tansy Gold

I can get why political groups fizzle though..unless they can attract MONEY, they can't get off the ground and have POWER..

I'd run in a heartbeat. For state lege, for Congress. hell, I'd run for president, on the American Vertebrate Party ticket -- the party with a spine!

But alas, I have no money, no campaign staff.

On the other hand, maybe it's time some of us took a leaf from Howard Dean's notebook and use the internet. . . .


oh, gawddess, it is far too late and i am far too tired to be thinking things like this. in the morning, maybe. . . . in the morning.

You'll need an exoskeleton, the way things are going.

. .. .wear a bra every day? Underwires? Padding? Eeeeeeiuw, yuck! I hate bras at least as much as I hate shoes!

And don't even mention pantyhose. . . . . . ..

of Planned Parenthood, NOW and NARAL. http://www.naral.org/ Every woman who is pro-choice should be supporting them. Those two organization get heard. Without funding, they will just go away.....like the pro-lifers want.

If a politician DOESN'T support pro-choice...they will NEVER get my vote.

I will never change the minds of pro-lifers and they won't change mine...it is a futile debate....a waste of good air.

Which 17 Democratic Senators are you referring to? I will write everyone of them a nice little letter.

supportive of these orgs.

I'll get you the list of the 17 senators unless someone else posts it first.

think about taking a leave of absence from this board. I'm having an atitude problem, where I'm seeing men as the enemy right now. There IS a war on women in this country and it is not abating.

The discussions about abortion this week have me really dismayed and almost despondent. I'd eleaborate, but I have the beginnings of a migraine, and coherent thought is a struggle.

I'm already active in several women's organizations and I have no intention of stopping.

More later.

to talk to as this gets me no where (politically - big circle frig), pisses me off, and is giving me a fat ass.

like i said, im in a woman's health collective and am going to join critical mass as soon as i get my bike from my parents.

Aims, goals, rural/city? how you found out about it, that kind of thing?

the one i joined is in washington dc. most likely you will find them in urban or college areas but ask around and you might find one anywhere. ask you local bookstore owner, health food store message board, coffee house or post one yourself and see what comes of it.

i would say that the founding principle is that its your body, you should know how it works. you should know whats normal FOR YOU. its very DYI.

women have survived for gazillions of years before there were male ob/gyns, tampax and monostat. there are cheaper (esspecially because we have a health care crisis in the US), more female and earth friendly alternatives to those above three.

books, in case you need a refresher course from the film strip you were herded into in fourth grade.

our bodies, our selves (from the boston women's health collective.
a new look at a woman's body
women's bodies, women's wisdom
wisewoman's herbal for the child-bearing years by susan weed

and many others. search amazon then buy local.

I agree, the tendency is to debate - and usually with the same people who are too far gone.

I personally have had the experience when a person who didn't quite get it PM-ed and said thanks to something I wrote here, a light went on. I'm sure this happened to a number of us.

But the person who is too far gone will never have that light go on.

So, maybe we debate just a little, then say ENOUGH WE DON'T CARE.

And spend the rest of our valuable time we make our voices loud enough to the people in power that they WILL know we are a force to be reckoned with. Spend this time getting THEIR attention.

I do think the Dem party knows the value of the gender gap, and they know despite the propaganda, choice is #1 for women when it is in danger of being taken away. But it won't hurt to remind them.

Daschle must go from his leadership post, for starters. If he has to play DINO to stay in power, he should not be Democratic leader.

It's never too late to have the "click" of the light going on.

Not everyone who reads our posts responds. There are a lot of lurkers, even some freepers, who read, and we never know when one of them will suddenly experience the "click." Stand up, keep fighting, as Wellstone said.

One of the guys my husband works with is a staunch republican. pro-bush all the way, pro-war, pro-tax cuts, you name it. Over the past two years, hubby and I have been chipping away at this guy and his wife, slowly, slowly, slowly, just a little bit at a time. He's now not quite ready to vote for a Dem, but he is very, very unhappy with the current regime. he's seen how the tax cuts are hurting him, not helping. and since both he and his wife are approaching retirement age and both have health problems, the whole issue of medicare is looming very large in their futures.

But what turned him more than anything was something we didn't really consider important.

He's a big fan of Wal-Mart, and he and his wife shop there all the time. We've repeatedly told them just small bits and pieces of the horribleness of Wal-Mart, and they just kind of go into denial about it. A few nights ago, this guy was showing my husband some photos of his grand-daughter, an adorable little girl of about 10. She was wearing some little outfit that the grandmother had bought her at Wal-Mart, and the guy was bragging about how inexpensive it was and how you couldn't buy anything like that for that price at Dillard's or Kohl's.

My husband, who is not noted for his brilliant on-his-feet thinking, calmly observed, "Yeah, it's probably so cheap because Wal-Mart pays somebody's cute little granddaughter in Bangladesh ten cents an hour to make those clothes."

He said the guy gasped audibly.

the next night he said he didn't think they'd be doing much shopping at Wal-Mart any more.

**CLICK**

and its effect!

:hug:



Tansy Gold, the html challenged or she would be writing in "blush" pink.

... because some individuals in it are backward and ignorant. Realistically speaking, we don't have much of an alternative. I do NOT support candidates who are anti-abortion rights and insensitive to women's issues. Fortunately, in the northeast, such people are rare in the Dem party.

As far as the Dems are concerned, the trick is "positive reinforcement." Let them know you will support candidates who are right on women's issues, and that candidates who don't support women's issues can kiss your cute little behind. This HAS made a difference in the Dem party. Several years ago, a lot more Dems would have voted for the "partial birth" nonsense.

Still, 17 out of, what, 48? Is too many.

nothingshocksmeanymore - and a big right on to ya!

This last month has shown me how essential it is for women to get organized and fighting. Our hard won gains are slowly eroding. When do we do something? When we wake up in the "Handmaid's Tale?"

It is time to sweep the Congress and Senate clean of the Democrats who don't represent women's issues correctly. We could be a huge force to be reckoned with - if we only organized, and refused to be fragmented. It also means we need to be the ones who run for office.

It't time to lay the ERA back on the table. We need it to be passed.

We need to stop allowing the right to define our terms and our arguments. Partial Birth Abortion and Abortion Doctor are their phrases - not ours.

I'm a little wound up, I've been doing some researching on the suffragettes for a newspaper column, and for a talk I'm giving next week on voting.

I am so ready for the revolution.

who is interested. i could probably get a listserve together.

im not sure how exactly it would work online. maybe we could schedule some sort of "conference call" posting session.

or it would atleast be a depot for information, news alerts, questions etc.

sound good?

and since it's DU, we could maybe vent a little about the...er...enlightenment challenged... ones we run into here?

mutalaid hosts listservs.

i would like to be as inclusive as possible meaning transwomen and women-allies as well as long as the conversation can be civil.

of course if there were any problems we could vote them off the list.

I meant it would be the DU crowd

so we'd have been through battle together

and ACTIVISM sections and begin to do the empowering and fundraising right here as well

Whatever we can do to organize is all for the good.

my time and energy to activism. I have no resources left with which to rehash what had been definitively settled a long time ago.

MAybe that's what we need to do is use the resources we DO have to figure out where the needs are:

Phone calls, letters etc..and go from there.

Meeting Room or Activism?

Where shall we hold the party?

may come back to be the most important thing females will need in the future. Finding that person.....if we go back that far in the "taking away" of Female Rights as Human Beings, in charge of our bodies. IF.....IF....

There will always be people there to help. But, the "poorest" will no longer have any access.....and that's what I think you are getting at. Do we want to be "Linda Lay's" or do we want to work for the person with the lowest access to health care in the US.

These decisions are "backtracking." And, since most of America is focused on only the "wealthiest."

There will be some BIG decisions to be made ...down the line..:-(

BTW: I've refrained from getting involved in these discussions here on DU. I'm very private. I only answered because of you NSMA... Otherwise, I wouldn't even bother to post on this.

Not after you read this. That's why I posted that abortion can quickly become more than a choice issue, if we don't do something it's going to literally become a health issue. We've got to add the medical reasons for abortion back to the debate. Or we could well end up losing necessary, life-saving, health care as well as our rights.

http://www.drl.tcu.edu/PoB/PoB_Lectures/social_cognition/attitudes/Who_Will_Do_Abortions.htm

screw anyone who doesn't understand that. I am sick to death of asking people for my rights. There are more women in the democratic party than there are men, or any other group. We can make them listen to us if we organize.

I think it is a great idea to join a "woman's party" and force the parties hand. If we can get some conservative democrats replaced with more liberal challengers in the primaries we will reallly have accomplished something.

fucking over women, people of color, workers, poor people, etc...the groups some in both parties can agree on. it's LONG PAST time to say: FUCK YOU! you don't support me...guess fucking what?! YOU DON'T GET MY SUPPPORT.
:nuke:

I'm really pissed. Not that I haven't supported these organizations... but this is crazy... it's time to fight.

And thanks for allowing this guy to post here.

What is amazing is that the vote (and betrayal) by these Democrats is barely being even addressed.

The biggest slap in the face was Daschle's vote.

eom

What march? :shrug:

As long as the complete body of the unwanted fetus has not emerged then maybe we should be allowed to chop its head off before it gets out alive?

After all it's not human until its entire mass is removed from its mother.

There is a point of no return. Where is it?

The law already does.

who has made such a moronic statement?

I am not an incubator, is that so hard to understand?

You big abortionist you :D BTW, check the profile..this person loves guns so they aren't opposed to ALL killing...just don't waste a precious egg :eyes:

:wtf:

this weekend is really really busy for me but maybe next week we can start something.

any one interested in contributing please pm me and we can start a steering committee.

Step 1: Stand up for what you believe in. Sign the Freedom of Choice petition (and sign up for the Choice Action Network while you're there).

Step 2: Speak out for privacy and freedom. Tell your friends. Tell your colleagues. Tell your family. Start talking about the right to choose. We've made it easy - just click here.

Step 3: Keep going. What else can you do? Take a look at the list below - there are lots of ways for you to get involved!

http://naraldevel.nisgroup.com/takeaction/index.cfm


One last note: If you're thinking you don't have time to help lead, please think again. The stakes are just too high. This is our moment, friends. Thank you for stepping up to protect a woman's right to choose.

http://naraldevel.nisgroup.com/takeaction/more_mobilization.cfm

I'm also so tired tonight I can't think straight.

What is bouncing around in my brain is that women's issues are bigger than reproductive rights; they seem to revolve around them, but...there's more that never seems to be part of the discussion.

Like cultural values that encourage women to think that they are less than whole if they don't reproduce.

The cycle of poverty a woman with kids, who didn't think she would be going it alone, endures when a man decides to move on to greener pastures.

The exhaustion and self-denial involved in being it all; career professional, parent, bookkeeper, housekeeper, etc.; still filling everyone's needs, just doing more.

As far as we've come, it isn't far enough, in my life's experience.