Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Hydrogen economy

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU
 
matt819 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-04 08:23 PM
Original message
Hydrogen economy
Will someone please explain in layman's terms what is the hydrogen economy, and what is Ahnold supposed to do to make his Hummer hydrogen powered? I guess I was sleeping during HS chemistry, and it was about a hundred years ago anyway, so I would have forgotten.

Also, does that NPR underwriter the hypes about powering the hydrogen economy think that anyone understands what that means?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
smiley_glad_hands Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-04 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Instead of an economy based on finding,processing, and utilizing oil--
its one based on the processing and utilization of Hydrogen as fuel. Instead of gas stations we would have Hydrogen stations. Ahnold is talking out his ass---without the feds dumping a bunch of money into R & D and infrastructure---much like a "Manhatten Project" it probably won't happen anytime soon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
necso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-04 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hydrogen
combines with oxygen (from the air) to form water and produce energy, so as a fuel it is clean. However it also requires (or at least works best and cleanest using) fuel cells, for which low cost technology is a long way off. (The demo cars cost 7 figures.)

Moreover hydrogen is not easily obtainable, requiring power and a source to produce. The sources talked about are oil, gas, and coal. So basically we shift the pollution to the producing areas.

Hydrogen has long term potential but it works best using fusion (potentially clean and basically limitless power) and water cracking technologies to produce it (which makes a circular process --- energy/water in -- energy/water out). However if the powers that be point this out, people might think about the disgraceful lack of work on fusion technology.

Hydrogen has other problems like explosion risk and the problem of storing enough to get good range. In short it is scam at least for the near term. It is also away of turning people's attention away from electric cars for which the technology has greatly improved to the point of practicality and for which some infrastructure is already in place and more easily added. Combine electric cars with improved (home) solar and the oil, gas and coal companies (who would control hydrogen) are in real trouble. So we can forget about this route.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-30-04 09:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Hydrogen is a clean fuel, but two major problems.
First, how do you get hydrogen?

Well you can get it from oil wells, but that still has the same problem as gasoline. Or you can make it. Part of the problem is that it takes more energy to make it then you get back from burning it. So using diesel fueled plants to make hydrogen to burn in your car is senseless. Perhaps using a renewable energy resourse to make the hydrogen would make more sense.

Second, how do you store it?

Hydrogen is a gas. It will have to be stored under high pressures in order to be used as a fuel. It is also highly flammable and explosive. That's not something you want when you get in a wreck.

One guy in Brazil once invented a car that ran completely on pressurized air. I shit you not, this isn't some water car conspiracy theory. The engine itself was fine, the reason nobody will ever see it is because it's a safety hazard. That much pressurized air should never be allowed in traffic.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu May 09th 2024, 03:05 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC