can someone explain "goth" to this old fart.

OK. when I was a teenager some of us where also into old cemetarys, abandoned houses, rumors of an old woman at the end of a road who may have been a witch, the "beast of Blevins Gap" (up in the hills behind the city). haunts, vampire legends and stuff.

I guess thats sort of like "goth" stuff, but it didnt really transfer into a 'look'...that black & pale look. We didnt call it "goth" either....I guess that meant medieaval or it meant a style of literature from the south.

So whats up with goth?

ARE you??

think "Dazed and Confused". Graduated high school in 1977.

First example of Goth (I think) was a band Siouxsie and the Banshees, first big US album (Kaleidoscope) came out in the 1980's.


Culturally, I think Goth was a post-punk thing. I believe it came out of an early 80's phenomenon called the New Romantics (Adam Ant).

Is this correct, DU Goths???

I kinda figured we were about the same age.

-- Allen

Goth·ic adj.

1.
a. Of or relating to the Goths or their language.
b.Germanic; Teutonic.
2. Of or relating to the Middle Ages; medieval.
3.
a. Of or relating to an architectural style prevalent in western Europe from the 12th through the 15th century and characterized by pointed arches, rib vaulting, and a developing emphasis on verticality and the impression of height.
b. Of or relating to an architectural style derived from medieval Gothic.
4. Of or relating to painting, sculpture, or other art forms prevalent in northern Europe from the 12th through the 15th century.
5. Of or relating to a style of fiction that emphasizes the grotesque, mysterious, and desolate.
6. Barbarous; crude.

n.
1. The extinct East Germanic language of the Goths.
2. Gothic art or architecture.
3. often gothic Printing.
4. A novel in a style emphasizing the grotesque, mysterious, and desolate.

goth n.
1. A style of rock music that often evokes bleak, lugubrious imagery.
2. A performer or follower of this style of music.

We're attracted to the darker things in life from birth--night, the moon, death, graveyards, horror films/books, etc... It doesn't make us bad people though.

Then there are the Fashion Goths, who are into a scene and more concerned about image, style and music.

There's actually multitudes of different types of Goths, many of which you'd never know were Goth if you sat next to one.

....I liked things like graveyards, the old and decrepit..ruins...(in Europe the runied castle or chuch, in the USA the abandoned factory or mansion). dark forests and hollows, more for the melancholy aspect I think.

Not so much the horror aspect...that never did much for me. Although I was a big Dracula fan...oddly enough more because of the feel of the book.

I guess what we are talking about is sort of neoromantiscism.

Yeah, no one person likes everything that's "goth". That's why there's really so many sub-types. I for one don't care much for Bauhaus, but I love Love and Rockets. I also dislike Rice and most (not all) vampire fiction. Buffy and Angel are the two real exceptions for me.

Sorry!

I go now!

My take...

Goth was/is a genre of music where punk of the early to late 70's and glam-rock of the early (maybe mid) 70's inter-twined in the early 80's.

If not inter-twined - they were both definitely an influence.

I say this as I think of the New York Dolls, Bowie and T. Rex and how they were such an influence on Bauhaus.

Of course, my favorite band of this genre was Bauhaus which eventually begat Love and Rockets, David J's solo stuff, and Peter Murphy's solo career.

I didn't like it at first, but I am really digging "Dust" by Peter Murphy right now.

I actually have their double album...good stuff (like Terror Couple Kill Colonel and Shes in partys).....also loved their logo (which was the original Bauhaus logo).

The funny thing if you are familiar with the orginal Bauhaus and what it was about its super-ironic that the name is now associated with a goth band.

The guy who turned me on to them to begin with was from London and working here in America in the late 70's. I was but a young lad.

I believe they achieved the Goth status later.

Personally, I don't really give a shit about the label, I have always dug their stuff.

....a band calling themselves Bauhuas means you have to give them a listen....

art museum in Germany and that's where they got their name?

First a archtectual style, but "Bauhaus design" is still very popular for everyday goods.

Some very famous archtitects were participating; for example Gropius and Mies van der Rohe.



The Bauhaus (AFAIK it is refurbished by now)









(And a DIY chain is named Bauhaus)

They where built for the school after it relocated from Weimar. The school was extremley influential on modern architecture and design....in the USA as well as Germany. Two directors of the Bauhuas became major architects and educators in the USA...Mies Van Der Roh and Walter Gropius.

Later in Germany a "second Bauhaus" was set up in Ulm (some of the old Bauhausler taught there), which had a major impact on graphics and product design in the FRG (such as electronics by Braun, the Lufthansa corporate identity), etc.

:hi:

...good example of the "Gothic sentiment" in German culture would be those gloomy Kaspar David Friedrich paintings of ruined churches....


(off topic...great symbol in the sig line...the socialist rose w. the Euro stars)

The left party in the European Parliament, including new labour, the Parti Socialiste, the SPD ...

I would have liked it as an avatar, but the request was never answered.

Edit: link
http://www.eurosocialists.org

Punkgoth--the original flava!

Mopeygoth--fuck off and die (reading Baudelaire in a coffeehaus)

Perkygoth--would rather live with flopsey and bouncy than mopey

Bittergoth--one level below mopeygoth


Poseurgoth/Visigoth/Miligoth--...if you have to ask...

Vampygoth--subscribes to alt.gothic and alt.vampyres

Crustygoth--those over 40, if they still have hippy tendencies

Industragoth--likes both goth and industrial music

Perkydomgoth--a happy dominatrix

Perkysubgoth--happy that _they're_ not in control

Perkyswitchgoth--just happy, no matter who is in control

Polygoth--those with polygamous preferences/desires

Bubblegoth--those who chew gum and blow bubbles at clubs

Kittygoth--those who own Hello Kitty _everything_

Androgagoth--those who have perfected that androgynous look

Crowgoth--those who think they are Brandon Lee

more................

http://www.odk.com/wilson/goth/150.html

:evilgrin:

that's the whole point of teen rebellion. Like Duh.

he was 16, when Bauhaus released their first album, 15 when Siouxsie and the Banshees released their better album and Joy Division released Unknown Pleasures. What kind of nonsense was he doing, when he was 16? Listening to Led Zeppelin? Goth is just a kind of after-it-was-hot label put on - at least partially - very good music. Even Bauhaus was much more - hmmmmm - Bauhaus-like, before this label sold them lots of records in the USA. But the clothes are somehow sexy.
Hello from Bauhaus, hmmmmm, Germany,
Dirk

I'm well over 40 and I have albums (yes vinyl) of Souxie and Joy Division. They are buried somewhere with the Missing Persons and Romeo Void albums.

I need to dust them off and listen to them again.

...came a bit late to Joy Division...working backward from New Order.

....Alot of those overseas trends neve even made it to my part of the USA (Kentucky)...like Glam...Punk was just something we read about...although it hit Kentucky (Lexington and Louiville) around say the late 1970s.

you might not be too lame after all. Either that, or they hit age 25.

Usually the latter occurs first.

Walpole was an amazing guy. He was the author of The Castle of Otranto: A Gothic Story (1764), the first Gothic novel. He also invented the word "serendipity" and should probably be considered the godfather of the fanzine, since he owned the first private printing press in England and used it to print very limited editions of his own more eccentric writings, which he distributed to his closest friends.

In Walpole's day, "Gothic" meant simply "medieval" (as in Gothic architecture.) But the term came to be applied to the whole genre of stories derived from his, which really took off in the 1790's -- accounts of ghosts and vampires and general doom and angst, generally in a medieval setting.

As gothic novels proliferated in the 1800's, they gave rise to a number of other forms, some of which kept the supernatural element (occult horror, science fiction via Mary Shelley, heroic fantasy) while others dropped it (historical novels via Sir Walter Scott, detective stories via Edgar Allan Poe, women's gothic romances via the Brontes, "Southern Gothic.")

The original gothic element -- which might be defined as a sexually charged mixture of romance and supernatural horror -- pretty well died out in the mid-20th century. But it started to creep back around the late 60's or early 70's. (Think "Dark Shadows.") At some point, the word Gothic was rescued from the women's romances in order to describe it. And the label was also picked up (I guess in the early 80's) by the Goth subculture -- although most of them seem to have no idea where it comes from.

If you're looking for reference points to understand Goths, the closest approximation is probably 1950's Beatniks. Think black clothing, downbeat existential angst, artistic tendencies (or pretensions) -- then crossbreed that with Morticia Addams and a side order of chains-and-leather and you'll pretty well have it.

"Satan is not evil."

I found this a surprising statement considering all society's done to market him as an extremely bad dude. He couldn't quite qualify what he meant; but I suspect there's folklore with a different twist on Satan.

All Bush-Cheney jokes aside, do you know what my son might be talking about?

???

It's been so many years since I read it that I can't remember anything about it.

Time to refresh my memory!

Just to clarify, in case there's any mistake -- Goths are not Satanists. A few might be, but then again there are usually a few in every sub-culture.

but he likes to express himself with the goth look and dark heavy metal music.

I'm just glad he hasn't rebelled by becoming a fundy. ~knock on wood~

Jane Austen was the first to start satirizing the Goths in her novel 'Northanger Abbey.' Goth is basically a form of Romanticism.

When I was a teenager, Goth was basically a subculture for artisticly inclined kids, based on gloomy music (usually British) and black clothing and reading obscure poetry. Most of these kids were creative; they painted or played in bands or made their own jewelry and clothes. I don't know what it means today, it seems to mean something different now.

and became an even more gothic picturesque ruin?

They are all silly kids that want to be "different" and think that their life is somhow more difficult than anyone else's.

I remember (44 here) dying my hair jet black and wearing the "disturbed dolly" makeup.

And no, I won't post pictures--though I will admit I looked pretty damn good!

When I was in High School back in the mid 1990s the Goth kids were everywhere. They wore all black trenchcoats and were pale and everything. Today, I notice very few of those kids walking around. Maybe "Punk" has taken over that crowd.

Actually, I think a lot of those kids who initially came up with the Goth fashion have grown up. I'm in college now and I don't see anyone like that around here.

Of course, there are many definitions of "Goth." This is the form of goth I am most familiar with.

The Cure were the only one's worth listening to of the genre anyway, and they weren't even really goth.

http://www.kaatspaw.com/kitte/c6/c6.htm

http://www.mairi.net/parties/C6/andre_pix.html

http://www.maskmakers.com/htm/C6ness.html

http://www.eskimo.com/~sonata/c6pics.html

and, most importantly...

http://www.cradleoffilth.com/