So, tell me about Buffalo, NY....

The DH and I are looking to escape Colorado. Not that we don't love Boulder County, but the rest of the state is problematic, and we're looking at a nasty crash here, soon, since this was a bubble economy.

We see that we can buy a house in Buffalo with our savings, and DH found several jobs that he can do. That means we can be secure while waiting for the Colorado houses to sell, and live on my income if necessary.

So, what are the downsides? We know it gets frigid. That's okay - we like cold weather. (Colorado is actually too warm for us.)

No kids, so no worries about schools. No plans on kids, so no real worries about environmental pollutants.

So, what's the deal? What's wrong with Buffalo that houses go for under 20 grand when we're seeing salaries commensurate with what we're making here?

Pcat

It's hard to imagine a worse decline in anyone's quality of life than a move from damned nearly anywhere in Colorado to Buffalo, NY. Sorry New Yorkers, just MHO. I have family from the Buffalo area, although I haven't been back there in decades. Where to begin? It's the northeast, it's crowded, primarily urban and suburban, it's an industrial city. Those are all attributes that I loathe.

Suburbs suck.

If we don't have public transit, it's on a NO GO list.

And rural? Well.... if we had subsistance farming skills, I'd probably say okay, because when the oil economy dies, the farmers will be the only survivors, but we don't. So that means we must be urban.

Pcat

I'm originally from Cleveland, and used to watch the weather in Buffalo to make myself feel better. It's not just cold...it's nasty, messy precipitation.

Other than that...I dunno. I'm sure others can help more.

After 8 years of perpetual drought? Daily rain, snow, sleet will be a blessing.

I'm sick of having to bail my bathwater to make sure my roses survive!

Pcat.

BOTH DAYS!

a house under 20,000 dollars you better think twice. I lived in the area on and off for years and worked at the State University of New York at Buffalo. There is art, music, theater, winter sports, boating, fishing, football, baseball and a lot of nice people.

There are good hospitals and health care.

I live west of there; Silver Creek on the shores of mighty Lake Erie.

Sure! Come join us.

180

I like old houses, and won't actually buy in a new development (ethical concerns.)

We'd be checking roof, foundation, termites, etc.

What else should we be looking for?

Pcat

Like many cities there are areas, sections where one really should not consider living.

There are many fine homes in Buffalo and surrounding areas and the garages are likely going to be worth 20,000 dollars.

I suggest caution. In my home village you might find a fixer upper for 40,000 dollars. we are thirty miles from the city.

180

I think that would explain it, but that's just my guess. I do know that you can get a lot of house in Buffalo for what would buy a very small one where I now live (I'm a native of Buffalo living in New Jersey).

The problem with home prices in Western New York is that you may not see much appreciation. My sister's house has not appreciated AT ALL in ten years (she tried to sell it last year).

Downsides: crappy newspaper (there's only one, the Buffalo News, which you can check out online), though that's where Tom Toles started out. The cold -- depends on you. It doesn't actually get that frigid most of the time, but there is a lot of snow, and once winter is underway, there won't be melting till spring, which starts fairly late. On the other hand, I've rarely been afraid to drive in Buffalo in winter. They are really very good at keeping the roads plowed, and people are far more used to driving in winter weather than they are in New Jersey, where an inch of snow shuts everything down. In a big storm, the side streets sometimes have to wait for a plow.

Not everyone likes Buffalo (it's hard to go from a big city to a smallish one like Bflo., for example), but I can say more about the upside than the down. It's great to have the lake right there and Canada so close. Very interesting architecture, nice parks (designed by Frederick Law Olmsted), a variety of ethnic groups (and therefore ethnic festivals and foods), an excellent modern art museum, a pretty good state university, and of course, THE BILLS (football is huge in Buffalo). Don't forget to order "chicken wings," and remember, it's only out-of-towners who call them "Buffalo Wings."

PM me if I can try to answer more specific questions.

Drive south about half an hour and you are in the mountains. Not towering mountains, mind you, but something like a stubby Vermont.

A couple of ski hills, a state park, great biking. Oh, did I mention the nuclear waste storage facility?

Close to Canada, in case you need to make a quick escape in the fall.


http://www.endofsuburbia.com/

worse than Colorado.

Hate sweating. Hate being thirsty every hour of the day and waking up feeling like shit because I'm dehydrated. Hate heat.

Love cold. Love snow. Love winter.

Pcat

Buffalo is a wonderful sity. Great archetecture, good Universities, fabulous conductor of the Philharmonic. Wonderful Italian food, lots of real people. The winter is not that bad. Sure there can be a lot of snow (Syracure, Rochester get much more.), but the temps are not that bad and they DO do a good jobe with the streets. And if you live about 20 miles north most if that is south of you.
You're close to Canada: Toronto, as cosmopolitan a city as ANY, if less that 2 hours away. Did I say Niagara Falls?: It'll take yourbreath awas EVERY time you see it.
Your money will go further: the house you'll get will be far superior for the money.
And the people: Branch 3 of the Letter Carriers Union collects more food than any other Branch, not just percapita, but in absolute amounts: more than much bigger branches.
Downside?: The conservatives are just as STUPID here as anywhere, and non-urban WNY is VERY constupidive.
By all means, investigate coming here. We are on the upswing (almost imperceptable, but real) And we have all the water possible. That will be expremely important in less that 20 years.
Welcome. And if you do come to check it out, perhaps I can be of assistance.:pals: :thumbsup:

Western New York (I grew up near Buffalo, and live in Rochester for 20 years) is an incredibly beautiful area. The Finger Lakes area of New York are breathtaking.

If you can handle cold and snow winters, it is a great place to be. (btw, they do a great job handling the snow. Do a little web search and compare Buffalo or Rochester airport closings with, say, NYC, Chicago, or any other Northeastern city). I don't *ever* remember Rochester airport closing bcuz of weather.

Shuffle Off To Buffalo
Don Bestor

Click for music:
http://www.harrywarren.org/songs/0460.htm

I’ll go home and get my panties,
You go home and get your scanties,
And away we’ll go; Mm-mm-mm!
Off we’re gonna shuffle,
Shuffle off to Buffalo.
To niagra in a sleeper,
There’s no honeymoon that’s cheaper
And the train goes slow, Mm-mm-mm!
Off we’re gonna shuffle,
Shuffle off to Buffalo.
Someday, the stork may pay us a visit
And leave a little souvenir;
Just a little cute “What is it?”
But we’ll discuss that later, dear.
For a little silver quarter,
We can have the pullman porter
Turn the lights down low. Ooh!
Off we’re gonna shuffle,
Shuffle off to Buffalo.

In the mid 1970s, I knew several people who had moved from Buffalo to New Orleans. Reason: They had been snowed into their houses for MONTHS during one awful winter. Check an old weather chart, could have been 73 or 74. While in theory, global warming might seem to imply you'll never get a winter like that again, I wouldn't be too sure -- it also implies that weather can be much more violent and extreme than in the past.

I've never met any who moved to Buffalo, but like I say, several who escaped. Frigid is not the issue -- the issue is snowfall that blocks driveways, roads, and even your front door! Perhaps they have better snow removal these days?

If you are serious about relocating there, I advise before putting any money down or signing any paperwork that you actually visit there, in February or March, for a period of some weeks.

Colorado too warm for you? Huh. Have you considered International Falls, Minnesota???

Good luck on your move and take my caveats for what they are worth, probably not all that much.

I will do my research - this is a Phase one type question. You know, ask people who might know their opinion. Phase two is more internet research, phase three is go and see.

But as a kid, I got drug off to the far reaches of civilization with little to no preparation. There is NOTHING worse than Calcutta.

And as a home worker (I'm a freelance writer and editor) I spend a lot of time in my house, anyway. And maybe I have a different perspective, having been dragged from pillar to post so many times as a child.

MN was in the forcast, but we can't find a set of geek jobs there to keep the boi happy. He's very much a programmer, and doesn't want to give it up before he gets another degree.(robotic engineering, I think....)

But I will make sure I like the house - for the depreciation issue.

Thanks,

Pcat

You said the most important thing - jobs. If you don't have a job, it sucks. Thats the driving factor. But, if you do have a job its great.

It's true that there aren't many big-paying jobs to go with the big houses that seem to be building in the outer 'burbs. But there are plenty of really nice homes in the city and the older suburbs. I live in Kenmore, just north of Buffalo. Five yrs ago I bought a 1920, 1800 sq ft brick house in fantastic condition for $80k. The building inspector guy spent two hours going over it. In Boulder it would go for, what? $250k? 300k? Probably more.

My advice: If you want to pay $20k, expect to get fixer-upper. If not, use it as a down payment. Then figure out how much you can afford to pay for a mortgage. Then talk to the bank to find out how much you can get.

THEN, look at properties available online. Big or small? Old or new? Then where: way out in the middle of nowhere (like Marilla or Pembroke) or in the heart of the city- Allentown, Kiasertown, North or South Buffalo - or somewhere in between.

Great advice. Fixer - upper is okay, now that we have all of the tools (we currently live in a well restored fixer - upper.)

And yes, that house in Boulder County would go for up to half a mill.

Pcat

Lived there from 5 years and still miss it. Delaware Park, the Albright-Knox, The Zoo, the Italian Festival... cold, snowy winters, beautiful summers. What a shame that the economy sucks there. :-(

And when I Dice'd looking for competition, I saw a lot of positions in my partner's specialty.

Also, saw several openings in my own (I may be able to finally buy into a Psychology practice!!)

What am I missing, or am I just way too middle class?

Pcat

not a lot of places to work and the pay isn't so great. So for me, there weren't a lot of options. Had there been, I would have stayed.

Seriously, I would urge you to look elsewhere...I was born and raised there and couldn't wait to get the f*ck out. My family is still there, so I visit 2-3 times a year, but not much has improved in my view. My main problems with the "City of Good Neighbors":

- City politics: they have traditionally been a mess, rife with corruption and graft that prevents any meaningful development in the city from taking place. In my lifetime, Buffalo was supposed to get sparkling new waterfront developments, a world-class light rail system and many others....none of that happened due to clashes between the Mayor(s) and the City Council
- City budget mismanagement: in the past 5 years, it's been revealed how mind-numbingly corrupt the management of the city's budget has been. Erie County (in which Buffalo sits) took over control of the city's finances and must approve any expenditure for the city. If you enjoy moving to a city that has no authority over its budget, then please be my guest
- Weather: I don't think I need to say anything beyond what others on this thread have mentioned. It's pretty friggin' cold
-Sports teams that break your heart: Prepare to give up rooting for the local pro football and hockey teams because the Bills and the Sabres, respectively, will take your loyal heart and put it on a spike. I'm still a fan of both, but no need to put you through all that
- Political climate: Please don't be mistaken that just because Buffalo is the same state as New York City that they share any of the sophisticated and diverse political philosophies...Buffalo is just to the left of Orange County CA as far as I'm concerned. I have to grit my teeth each time I go back and have to hear about "Hitlery", how great Bush is, how liberals are threatening America, etc. I've actually been to dinner parties where guests felt comfortable enough to tell me about some "niggers" they saw that day

I'm pretty disgusted with Buffalo (as you can tell) and would urge you to settle somewhere else

Point by point:

City politics/budget.... well... I guess it can't get worse?
Weather: it's sounding lovely to me, but to each zer own.
Sports: They don't have cricket, soccer or rugby. I've no interest in American big 3 sports. I like hockey. (Part of the problem with growing up in the UK and India is that I have no concept of American sports. They make no sense to me. So I still do BBC cricket and football and just pretend that the NFL doesn't exist.)
Political Climate - I guess it won't get better if it's abandoned to the freeper types, will it?

What's your opinion on Rochester?

Pcat

It's a free country (well, for now anyway) and it matters not to me where you want to settle. If I was looking for an area to put down roots, I'd probably want to do better than "it can't get much worse". You wanted to know what was wrong with Buffalo and I shared my views. Take 'em or leave 'em.

I have to plead ignorance on Rochester. All I remember was, as sad as growing up in Buffalo was, Rochester was one of the few places we could look down at. Hopefully, someone else can enlighten you on Rochester.

BTW, good luck in your move.

No, seriously, I live in Wyoming County - south of Buffalo and Rochester. The Winters can be tough - unless you're sports minded. The sports nuts pray for snow. Skiing, snowmobiling, you name it. Regardless, the area is beautiful, Summer or Winter, but Autumn is truly astonishing. Anyway, I live about 20 minutes away from Letchworth State Park, which is also known as the Grand Canyon of the East, for good reason. Whenever I need a big city blast I just run up to Toronto for a few days. A little known fact - this is big wine country and we have many well established and respected vineyards. Also, both Buffalo and Rochester have more than their fair share of Frank Lloyd Wright homes. AND - there's the Roycroft in East Aurora. Google it - you'll be amazed. East Aurora is a wonderful place to live. FWIW - Amherst, a snotty suburb of Buffalo, is listed as the safest city in America.

You don't want to be downwind of Lake Erie.

You also don't want to be in one of the economically worst-off places in the upper great Lakes.

Rapes, murders, fires, riots, arson, political scandal.

I used to drive throught there. It was hard to make a turn because there were so many hookers, pimps and drug dealers crowding the corners.

But with a pretty much destroyed economic base. Good Luck.