Starbucks- Fleecing America?

We don't have starbucks in india (yet), but perhaps you guys will identify with this story sent to me by someone in the US:

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If I said to you, "I have a great idea for a business. I'll open a whole new type of coffee shop. Instead of charging 60 cents for coffee. I'll charge $2.50, $3.50, $4.50, and $5.50.

Not only that, I'll have no tables, no chairs, no water, no free refills, no waiters, no busboys, serve it in cardboard cups, and have the customer clean it up for 20 minutes after they're finished."

Would you say to me, "That's the greatest idea for a business I ever heard! We can open a chain of these all over the world!"

No, you would put me right into a sanatorium.

And it's burnt coffee! It's burnt coffee at Starbuck's, be honest about it.

If you get burnt coffee in a coffee shop, you call a cop.

You say, "It's the bottom of the pot. I don't drink from the bottom of the pot."

But when it's burnt at Starbuck's, they say, "Oh, it's a special roast. It's a special bean from Argentina....."

The bean is in your head!!! I know burnt!!!

You want coffee in a coffee shop, that's 60 cents. But at Starbuck's, if it's Cafe Latte: $3.50. Cafe Creamier: $4.50. Caffe
Suisse: $9.50.

For each French word, another four dollars.

Why does a little cream in coffee make it worth $3.50? Go into any coffee shop; they'll give you all the cream you want until you're blue in the face.

40 million people are walking around in coffee shops with pitchers of cream: "Here's all the cream you want!"

And it's still 60 cents.

You know why? Because it's called "coffee."

You want cinnamon in your coffee? Ask for cinnamon in a coffee shop; they'll give you all the cinnamon you want. Do they ask you for more money because it's cinnamon? It's the same price for cinnamon in your coffee as for coffee without cinnamon - 60 cents, that's it.

But not in Starbucks.

Over there, it's Cinnamonnier - $9.50.

You want a refill in a regular coffee shop, they'll give you all the refills you want until you drop dead. You can come in when you're 27 and keep drinking coffee until you're 98.

And they'll start begging you: "Here, You want more coffee?" Do you know that you can't get a refill at Starbucks? A refill is a dollar fifty, two refills, $4.50. Three refills, $19.50. So, for four cups of coffee - $35.00.

And there're no chairs in those Starbucks. Instead, they have these high stools.

You ever see these stools?

You haven't been on a chair that high since you were two.

Seventy-three year olds are climbing and climbing to get to the top of the chair. And when they get to the top, they can't even drink the coffee because there's 12 people around one little table, and everybody's saying, "Excuse me, excuse me, excuse me....."


Do you remember what a cafeteria was?

In poor neighbourhoods all over this country, they went to a cafeteria because there were no waiters and no service. And so poor people could save money on a tip.

Cafeterias didn't have regular tables or chairs either. They gave coffee to you in a cardboard cup. So because of that you paid less for the coffee.

You got less, so you paid less.

It's all the same at Starbucks - no chairs, no service, cardboard cup for your coffee - except in Starbucks, the less you get, the more it costs. By the time they give you nothing, it's worth four times as much!

Am I exaggerating? Did you ever try to buy a cookie in Starbuck's?

Buy a cookie in a regular coffee shop. You can tear down a building with that cookie. And the whole cookie is 60 cents.

At Starbuck's, you're going to have to hire a detective to find that cookie, and it's $9.50.

And you can't put butter on it because they want extra.

Do you know that if you buy a bagel, you pay extra for cream cheese in Starbuck's? Cream cheese, another 60 Cents. A knife to put it on, 32 cents. If it reaches the bagel, 48 cents.
That bagel costs you $3.12.

And they don't give you the butter or the cream cheese.

They don't give it to you. They tell you where it is. "Oh, you want butter? It's over there. Cream cheese? Over here. Sugar? Sugar is here."

Now you become your own waiter. You walk around with a tray. "I'll take the cookie. Where's the butter? The butter's here. Where's the cream cheese?

"The cream cheese is there."

You walked around for an hour and a half selecting items, and then the guy at the cash register has a glass in front of him that says "Tips."

You're waiting on tables for an hour, and you owe him money?

Then there's a sign that says please clean it up when you're finished.

They don't give you a waiter or a busboy. Now you've become the janitor. Now you have to start cleaning up the place.

Old Jews are walking around Cleaning up Starbuck's. "Oh, he's got dirt too? Wait, I'll clean this up." They clean up the place for an hour and a half.

Starbuck's can only get away with it because they have French titles for everything, %$#%^&*.

And I say this with the highest respect, because I don't like to talk about people.

it's always fresh, very high quality, $79 cents for a huge cup and I get all the cream I want, free of charge.

I'd say its the marketing... but I don't see very much Starbucks marketing. I have no idea why this chain is doing so well, with how they fleece the consumer. And to think that this chain might've become so large on mostly word of mouth drives me crazy.

I had coffee there once, overpriced of course, and it was far sub par to the inexpensive cofee I can buy at the local Donut Connection.

That was out of the area of course, my area has been rather lucky, they are JUST opening the first Starbucks around here.

because Americans cant make coffee. Starbucks is the closest thing to good coffee in most of the states.

I think the coffee at local haunts and even some smaller national franchises is very good.

I would end up chalking Starbucks' success up to style over substance. Maybe even just brand recognition at this point.

But there is good coffee over here in the states. There is some good everything everywhere here, as in most developed countries.

I've never had a really good cup of coffee in the US. Ever. But, thats just me. Perhaps growing up with it, it's different.

I agree, I love Starbucks coffee.

And I grew up in the midwest, and I'll be damned, but I never found a place with good coffee, except for a VERY few nice places which were finable only in larger towns (like, cities over 50,000 that have universities, or cities over 100,000).

However, since Starbucks has become so popular, even my cultural wasteland of a hometown in WI has now a couple coffee shops that have, actually, good, strong, black coffee.

Typical midwest coffee is only slightly darker than the color of pine. My family make coffee that, even in the pot, you can still actually look through the pot, and that's the basic coffee you're gonna get at any roadside gas station, deli, diner, or restaurant in the midwest. Except now.

And I think it's because of Starbucks and their excellent coffee - it's made the basic rank and file realize that adding a decent amount of grounds to a pot of coffee actually makes a better pot of coffee.

At the crappy little restaurants and bars and diners and truck stops, it's still crud coffee, at least that they serve at the tables (unless you ask for something better), but I've noticved a change in the last two years that even the rednecks who would have normally killed someone asking for a double espresso cappucino are now asking for that themselves, and receiving them.

I'm from Canada, and I grew up with, well, strong coffee... some places isn't so great, but it's almost never really bad. I've traveled to a lot of places, Brazil had THE best coffee, I couldn't even drink coffee at home after I got back for a while. The US had the worst. I remember a few years ago, I found the cleaning personnel in the hall and asked for a few extra bags of coffee, I had to make one of those little in-room pots with three times the normal amount just so it was drinkable. But if thats what you're used to, I'm sure it's fine. Its nice to hear more places are getting better coffee, though. :)

I lived in Indonesia for a while, got hooked on coffee there. I had never been a coffee fan before, because I'd only had weak, acidic American style coffee. The beans grown in Sumatra and Sulawesi are very low in acid, high in caffeine, and taste wonderful aged and dark roasted. That's kind of the Starbucks formula (most of their blends other than those in the "mild" category rely heavily on Indonesian beans). I can't drink donut shop coffee, I'd rather do without.

We keep a pot of Starbucks on here at my office, and over the last year or so we have won many converts!

Typical midwest coffee is only slightly darker than the color of pine. My family make coffee that, even in the pot, you can still actually look through the pot, and that's the basic coffee you're gonna get at any roadside gas station, deli, diner, or restaurant in the midwest. Except now.

I know what you mean by making coffee that you can see through the pot. At my place of work one is not allowed to make coffee again if that is how it is made. We buy whole bean coffee and grind right before brewing.

The bean of choice here is Starbucks French Roast. We have pretty much got it down to where we know how to make a pretty decent cup of coffee. I actually know the strength levels of my co-workers and adjust acordingly. I have also noticed that the quality of coffee that you can buy in gas stations, fast food, dinners, etc has definitely gone up a few notches in the past few years. Now when I have gone in and bought a cup of their Bold brew of the day I haven't been all that impressed.

I don't really share this experience of Starbucks. And to my tastebuds it's a very very good cup of coffee. I don't go to any coffee shop much and only drink decaf when I do. BUT, I buy Starbucks decaf to have at home.

Nope, I get my caffeine from good ol' Pepsi!

I drink a lot of tea...hot and iced, regular or herbal.
I prefer it to coffee.

I don't think that Starbuck's current prices allows them much room for price jumps without completely pricing themselves out of the coffee market.

Then those same people will turn around and complain that they are suffering because their taxes are too high.

prices continue to rise. Gas here jumped 15 cents a gallon in the last week and a gallon of milk almost doubled in price.

Even if it was really good cofffee, really good coffee is NOT worth that much. It's just coffee.

I halfway want to chuckle when I see idiots spending $50 to fill up their SUVs, then $5 for a stupid cup of coffee. Better them than me.

I like the coffee at the Exxon stations

I like the coffee at the Mobil station on the Hutch

I like the coffee at a whole bunch of mom&pop places around here

I like the coffee I make at home

And none of these costs more than $1.75 for a 24oz cup. With all the cream and sugar I could possibly want. Even cinnamon. And whipped cream.

Most of them now have Splenda, which is really nice.

citgo makes my car go.

Was it him?

I'm not a fan, mostly because of the prices!

other sellers-peetes? is even worse. i would never go to hese places. i buy my 8 o'clock clumbian. make it myself. and it is always better. and CHEAPER.

I used to work near a Starbucks and buy a teensy little cup of coffee or cider. I have to say that the service was actually good and that the space was comfortable. However, I realized that I was spending about $80 per month on ridiculous drinks and bland snacks. My current workplace has a water cooler, but Costco bottled water and instant coffee {a sacrilege, I know :)} really cuts costs.

don't believe everything you read in the rant.

It IS exaggerated.

at age 43, all of the coffee that i've consumed in my entire wouldn't fill half a cup. I've had about 5 sips through the years, each one just as nasty as the last.

when i want caffeine, i take a 222.

you have to show me a place that serves Espresso based coffee for 60ct. Professional Espresso machines are really expensive and not easy to operate.

BTW: I don't like the (Anti-) French angle in the rant: Starbucks is Italian themed and uses hardly any French.

my local Starbucks will not toast a bagel -- no toaster they claim. So for $2.00 you can purchase a cold, rather hard bagel to go with your cup of designer "grande tall." The place is a rip off, and staffed by some of the surliest people around here. But they pack em in nonetheless.

I buy it whole bean for my own coffee... I don't live near a Starbucks so I don't get the chance to go often, but nothing beats the double-shot Vente Soy Latte with no foam, in my book.

I haven't had a good cup of coffee in a restaurant since I moved away from NYC over 10 years ago.

As for chairs... that's kind of odd, since every Starbuck's I've been to has outdoor tables (weather permitting) as well as indoor stuffed chairs at some places. Also, I've heard that many Starbuck's locations make it a practice to help the needy by providing free coffee to them. I witnessed this myself in a Starbuck's in SF a couple of months ago.

Paying $2.50 for a great big cup of coffee is less of a rip-off than paying $2 for a freaking SODA in a restaurant, or $1.50 for a cup of stale mud or brown water disguised as coffee. Or $6 for a beer. It's all relative people.

I get all the caffeine I need from tea or cola. However, when I do occasionally get a hankering for a coffee, I get it at 7-11 or Tim Horton's. I take it black. Believe me, when you have maybe one cup every two months, the caffeine in an extra-large gives me a real good buzz. It's a cheap high!

In Starbucks they don't even call the sizes small.medium,and large which,for some reason,drives me nuts.

Every Starbucks I've been in has nice comfy chairs.
The one in Mt. Kisco, NY has a fireplace
I pay $1.79 for as large a coffee as I'm going to drink in two hours
I've never received burnt coffee at Starbucks
I've never cleaned one either
Most diners I've been to have dismal coffee
Most diners I've been to have dismal food too
The best coffee I've ever had made for me is at Mayorga's coffee roasters in Rockville, MD
Mayorga's is also where I get my beans
My coffee is the best I've ever had
I like 7-11 coffee, it does nicely in a pinch
Why would anyone get a bagel at Starbucks?
Starbucks raised the bar as far as coffee is concerned.

2 floors above, in fact. and when they get the foundry going to smelt that coffee "ore" into the makings for that "coffee", then run it through a pair of cat kidneys for "extra body", then let a skunk put the foam on it with his spray...Oh, did I mention the step where they stir it with a stick of oak rescued from a crematorium?

Anyway, after they do all that, I can smell that shit drifting down 2 floors through the elevator shaft.

Coffee...if that's coffee, how about I brew you up something made with a shovel of debris from a house fire and we'll see if you can tell the difference.

Besides, paying $2.50 on up for 5 cents worth of coffee...well, a dime after the cup, a lid and overhead...just to act like Frazier?

I'd much rather stop at a gas station for my coffee and paper every morning than to feed another out-of-state/country corporation sucking money out of my local area.

Just curious... cause I know that for the same size costing $2.50 at Starbucks, at my local Circle-K I would have to pay $1.75.

adds up eventually

I was just thinking...Do you shop at Walmart, or eat at Mickey-Dees? No? Because of their business practices? Yet Starbucks does the same thing.

Move into town and run the small coffee shops out of business. then build a Starbucks on every corner.

offers stock purchasing to its employees, and buys cruelty-free non-oppressive coffee beans.

Very much UNLIKE Walmart.

Though they do indeed push the local coffee shops out, which is bad, but given that Starbucks has fair business practice, I don't mind. I mean, if a coffee shop comes into town, and charges MORE for coffee than the local ones, and STILL succeeds, how can you fault Starbucks?

Unlike WalMart, that moves in, works with the local government to get "concessions" and taxpayer funded construction - or at least, taxpayer funded reductions in paying tax - then sells for a loss to destroy the business in the town, and when it has a nice monopoly, raises prices. Also, WalMart makes sure it isn't paying livable wages and tends to have a lot of workers who work just few enough hours (clocked hours; of course, in unapid hours, it's more) that they don't have to give them benefits.

Uhhhh.....OK....I'd rather have local unique shops, instead of the "sorry, we only brew it ONE way, you just need to develop a taste for GOOD coffee" chains.

I can't drink their stuff anyway. OK, so I'm a heathen Philistine who drinks that "coffee you can see through" somebody else mentioned, but y'know what? I LIKE it that way...

But never necessarily good.

But since Starbucks doesn't come in and exhibit the typical business practices that places exhibit that WANT to be monopolies, I don't consider what Starbucks does to be bad.

Remember, monopoly wanting businesses come into a community and charge LESS for stuff, and price the competition out of business.

Starbucks comes in with EXPENSIVE coffee and pay their employees MORE. Apparently, a whole lot of people prefer to spend more money and get coffee they like. Nothing wrong with that. And if the local shops go out, this is a case in which it really is a problem with the local shops (other than that Starbucks has incredible brand name awareness, whcih is difficult for the local shops to compete against). They show up with good stuff that a lot of people want to buy and like better than other ooffee available. Sometimes in business that happens.

And I'm not here to defend Starbucks as better than other coffee (though *I* like it), nor to say they don't have any bad business practices, just to say that to compare Starbucks' business practices with McDonalds or WalMart is specious and unfair.

Though they really are popping up everywhere. I was surprised how many Starbucks there are in Kyoto. And the Staten Island ferries have Starbucks. I remember an Onion article from a few years ago about a Starbucks shop installing another Starbucks shop in the hallway to the restroom. It's almost getting to that point, Starbucks inside Starbucks.

:evilgrin:.......they make good coffee cake, too. :D

home, cause if I could, I WOULD.

Maxwell house (type coffee)SUCKS. I love a deep, dark, rich, strong coffee. Standard brands from the market are overprocessed, low grade beans of inferior quality.

It's like eating ice cream made of plastic, instead of made from cream and sugar.

I love most the italian coffee I find in the better markets, and Whole Foods has a great italian roast that is hard to come by.

I only grab my deep, dark, rich, sweet coffees, brimming with whipped cream and a sprinkle of chocolate, or a schmere of real caramel once or twice a week, but, it's worth it.

For a luxurious, melting sensation of sweet, hot, thick coffee, caramel, a touch of chocolate oozing with melting whipped cream, I WILL pay $3.00 AND leave a tip!

It's the small luxuries in life that we pay for, that give us joy, and that we can appreciate. If you dig your 7.11 coffee, go for it. I can't drink that fake, flavor enhanced, chemical covered, watered down crap!

Cheers!