I just don't understand creationism

Or, should I say people who still believe in it. No matter how many scientific facts you slam them with, or how many biblical inconsistencies you throw at them they absolutely refuse to listen.

My question is why? How can they hang on to something as truth that flies in the face of all scientific fact? Is it they they just don't understand science, or the scientific method? Do they see evolution as an attack on the idea that they are created in God's image? Do they see evolution as the enemy that seeks to tarnish the infallibility of the Bible? Is it all of these and more?

it's all that and more.

If you follow the debate for any length of time, it's obvious that the creationists are opposed not only to the simple fact of evolution for religious reasons, but POLITICALLY they use it to represent everything they hate. It's political as much as religious.

although some creationists also fall under your first category.

Personally, I can accept the Big Bang theory and evolution, but my lingering question is: Where did the original matter come from, and what set off the 'bang?'

and philosophically

There is no 'from' and there is no 'set off' because there was no existance of time and space (and energy and matter) before the Big Bang. And there was no 'before' in any meaningful sense.

Its like asking about your life before you were conceived. The potential for your existance was there, but no existance.

However, evidence that the Earth is a lot older than 5 to 10 thousand years is everywhere. One look at the Grand Canyon ought to settle that, or tree fossils 500 ft. below ground or the known distance of stars, millions of light years away. The only way any adult could believe that the Earth is 10 thousand years old is to be in a complete fog of superstition, a fog so dense that not even the most conclusive evidence can change their minds. This is the mind set that is allowing Bush to stay in power.

Today, on the Kim Peterson radio show in Atlanta, a caller said that the seven soldiers who committed the prison tortures were his heroes. "We didn't send our soldiers over there to coddle the Iraqis. And they haven't apologized for killing and torturing our guys."

The host, Peterson said, "You're a beautiful American, man. God bless you."

"God bless you"????? Did he mean to say "God help us".

I'm 68 years old and pretty hard to shock, but that conversation chilled me to the bone. What has happened to America and Americans?
How did we become so vicious, self-centered, greedy, arrogant and cruel, in such a brief time span?

When I was a college student, years ago, one of the Deans was criticized for not allowing his children to watch TV. Maybe he was ahead of his time in recognizing the dangers of it. On the other hand, it has a lot to offer that is positive, if only the TV management wasn't part of the global oligarchy.

I was asking about the Big Bang Theory, as I do not know that much about it. My expertise is not in astronomy or physical science, but I am intelligent enough to recognize that the earth was not created in 6000 BCE.

However, to me, the apparent inability of current science to answer the original-matter question does represent a slight problem. I don't deny scientific evidence; I merely pointed out what I (admittedly a nonscientist) saw as a kink in the theory.

I do not deny the possibility that scientific advances will answer this question in the future, however.

As for your last question, How did we become so vicious, self-centered, greedy, arrogant and cruel, in such a brief time span?, I have a two-word answer. Material wealth. We were quite vicious, self-centered, greedy, arrogant, and cruel in ancient times, too.:-(

and they don't really understand or accept the concept of scientific fact.

Science inherently includes uncertainty about life, both individually and collectively and they are unable to accept that as a part of their lives.

If they dont understand science, it's because they really dont want to.

the version in Genesis I or Genesis II?

a belief system propagated by the well-to-do which enabled them to sucker the peasants out of their pitiful holdings or earnings.

Believe there is something out there that will avenge you for having to have lived this shitty life, and it makes it easier to exist for a little while longer in it. Of course, the longer you exist, the more you are able to produce for "them." Them being the storytellers. Myth propagators. Fear inducing bastards that will con anyone in any way they can for a buck.

That's the outline of it.

I believe that creation was divinely inspired. With that said, I also don't believe that the universe was created literally in six Earth days. What is a day to God?
Bear with me here, but let's say you're God. You're bored one day and decide you're going to make the universe. Do you decide to make it an ongoing work in progress, or do you go down to the hobby shop and get one of those cheap, snap-together universes? I believe a supreme being is obviously complex, a being impossible to fathom. To take a literal, fundamental approach to creation is as insulting as refuting God's existence. And yes, I am a Christian. Flame away.

you obviously don't believe in creationism as the term is used for this discussion. Generally, it's a shortcut for "Young Earth Creationism" which states that the universe, the world and all its inhabitants were created as-is about 6,000 years ago.

What many fundie don't seem to grasp is that the Bible is full of metaphor- even Jesus spoke in parables so folks would understand what he said. To make a literal interpretation of creation is ridiculous. If God wanted to unlock all the mysteries of creation in the Bible, then Genisis alone would span infinite pages.

...and that is what's so frightening. But even then, they try to bend that literal interpretation.


Jesus never mentioned Homos, Leviticus did. Yet, lots of "church people" will INSIST Jesus condemned gays..Must have been during the sermon on the mount...Or maybe when he was dividing the loaves, or hanging on the cross...they KNOW he said it, PASTOR SAID HE DID....

literalists are scarey people, and they're rising to positions of power in this country...

... and by the way, Paul mentions homosexuals, alot. The love of the writhings (inadvertant typo for "writings", but I'm leaving it)of Paul are sometimes held to convey the triumph of Paul over Jesus.

Paul: hatefilled, intolerant, ultraconservative
Jesus: hopeful, tolerant, liberal

"Let those who have Wives live as though they have NO wives..." that was one of his, wasn't it?
Paul had some really BAD hang-ups, IMO...

Whatever gives one strength has got to count for something.

but not as it is presented in the Bible, it's just that it keeps me thinking...

I mean, what if "scientific facts" are simply rules set up by the "creator"... Maybe there's more than one "creator"... maybe evolution is just the means of the creation...

or maybe we all just live in a computer simulation, as this guy argues of possiblility of:
http://www.simulation-argument.com/simulation.html

"Were you there? Then how do you know it happened?" when you mention evolution.

Good god, what idiots! They hate to be asked "Were you there when the earth was flooded?" They build a castle on sand.

I feel more special knowing that humans got here on their own, then think that it all had to be put here for me.

the fall of the Roman empire either. I don't think it ever actually happened.

Their tiny minds are incapable of grasping the relatively simple concept of metaphor; were they capable of this they should have no problem reconciling the creation story of Genesis with the process of evolution, especially as the order in which plants, animals, etc are created actually works reasonably well as a metaphor for the stages of evolution from the earliest organisms in the seas to plants and land animals to humans. The fact that an attempt to reason with a creationist by pointing this out will elicit a response along the lines of "no, it says six days, that's what it means" simply proves it. They are idiots.

and there are a number of PTL-type execs who know how to capitalize on that illness. And as long as they can keep their followers stupid and frightened, they'll be powerful.

Science tells us we are just this teeny speck in the universe that can go pfff and the universe wouldn't miss us at all.

Creationists: "God dun made every'ting fer me!"

of how creation was supposed to take place?