I just Met Will Pitt Ask me anything...

But for starters...he is a hell of a nice guy in person. Gets a crowd eating out of his hand...and is a top notch speaker.

:hi: Will. It was real nice meeting you tonight.

"a political rookie"?

www.kucinich.us

are you a political rookie?

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seemingly out of the blue... Let it go... What may have seemed like a slap at you may actually have been the result of some ass who crossed his path before you- you have to admit there are quite a few here ;) Easier just to let it go... Peace

... the very charisma that makes Will so attractive makes his slaps hit harder.

It's HARD to let it go.

Will's charisma comes across better in person than on these boards. Trust me on that one! To be frank I was surprised at how warm and kind Will is. I was expecting someone with a swollen head - what I got was a real mensch. I hope you two have the chance to meet one day.

I fully understand your point though... I'm sorry that was your experience :( and I hope it can be replaced with a different one.

I never had a bad experience with Will.

My comments were based on long-time observation of the dynamics of these boards.

Personally, I'm 50 years old with an advanced degree and I've been a newsjunkie since I started reading Time magazine cover-to-cover when I was nine. I have a book out ("Jove Laughs, They Say") and was somewhat less of a minor celebrity during Impeachment than Will is now. Will couldn't hurt me.

In other words, I betcha I think I'm smarter than Will more than Will thinks he's smarter than me!

However, the condescending attitude Will sometimes exhibits could be a dealbreaker, i.e., prevent him from breaking through and being a major talent, co-Host of Crossfire someday, maybe even replacing Tom Capuano in the House of Representatives when he retires in 10 or 12 years or so.

I snap on this board more than I do in real life because it gets so intense... You hop from a heated thread in F/A to a heated one in LBN that by the time you get to GD, sometimes that baggage is just too much. But I hear you... Wise words for all of us.

I'd love to see Will get that far!

Peace

... the first and one of the few times I replied to Will Pitt on this board, that was almost exactly what I called him.

And to make you feel really better, if I remember correctly, I called him that because he called someone else something similar.

Calling people rookies in political discourse is a rookie mistake, AND I AM NOT BEING CUTE. For some reason, it carries a sting that lasts far longer, frequently, than the political question at issue, as I have a feeling you know.

that did make me feel better. :)

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You can't be a political rookie and be a Kucinich man! DK rocks!!

Did you read Will's piece on Dennis Kucinich? Here goes... Will even gave me permission to make as many copies as I wanted and pass it out at the Vets for Peace Convention where Dennis was one of the guests of honor. Needless to say, I made sure Kucinich got a copy hot off the press. Peace :)


That afternoon, barely able to lift my arms above my head, I was brought down to an organic foods co-op – essentially a vegetarian supermarket with a nice café on the second floor – to hear a quick speech by Presidential candidate Dennis Kucinich. He was there when we arrived, and I plowed through the crowd to get a view. Kucinich, I saw, was sporting a sharp new haircut, and was bristling with energy. He addressed the crowd very briefly and answered some questions. The man, I decided, has sand.

As he was headed for the door, someone told him I was there. Came then the shock of my life. Kucinich stopped dead, whirled around, and bulldogged through the crowd to find me. I smiled and reached out to shake his hand. He grabbed it and hauled me in until we were basically bumping chests and nose to nose. He did not give me the standard triple-pump politician handshake, but the triple-grip old-school activist handshake. He said an incredible number of nice things about my work, and about truthout, the very last thing I was expecting to hear. He only had a few seconds before he had to head off to his next speech, but a connection got made in that café that is difficult for me to deny. I am not the swooning type, but I felt after that like I had just come out of the hot sun. There aren’t many politicians who can do that to me.

That night, several activists and I went to hear Kucinich give a more formal address at a public theater. Before he came out, the crowd was addressed by a Hispanic man named Fernando Suarez del Solar. Mr. Suarez carried in every aspect of his bearing - in his eyes and his face and his very being – the most profound sorrow. His son, Jesus, was one of the first men killed in this second Iraq war. Mr. Suarez spoke to the crowd in passionate Spanish, which was translated by a woman to the side of the stage.

Suarez denounced the war, denounced Bush, and asked that everyone present reinvest themselves in the effort to get American troops out of Iraq. He described how troops fighting in Iraq are being denied standard overtime pay, despite the fact that they have been deployed well beyond normal time parameters. He announced that he would be going from high school to high school on a tour to tell the children not to believe the lies told by military recruiters, lies that caused his son to enlist and die in an unnecessary war. When he was finished, he closed his eyes and kissed a pair of dog tags he was wearing around his neck. The tags had been worn by his son on the last day of his life.

A document being handed out described an organization founded by Suarez called Guerrero Azteca, created to help Latinos whose family members have died in the war. The last paragraph reads, “The immense majority of the youths in the armed forces were recruited with deceptions. They are the ones in the line of fire. They are the first ones to go into battle. They are the cannon fodder. Therefore, for the Hispanic community to support the antiwar position is to protect their children. They are protecting their loved ones from going to die in absurd wars.”

Then came Dennis. He reached the podium on the crest of a great ovation, and stood silently until the crowd hushed. And he waited. And he waited. And in that silence he began to sing, softly, “Oh say does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave o’er the land of the free, and the home of the brave?”

Kucinich then slammed the podium and roared, “Courage, America! Courage, America! Courage, America!” before spending the next 20 minutes denouncing the Bush administration, the war, and the direction this nation is moving in some of the most eloquent language I have yet heard. There is not a single Presidential candidate in the field willing to say when Kucinich said on that stage in San Diego, for good or ill. The crowd reacted as if they were coming out of the desert to find a pool of ice-water waiting for them. They drank it up and called for more.

I learned a few things on that road. I learned that a lot more people care about what is happening than the television would have us believe. I learned that just about everyone in the activist communities I met is ready and willing to join ABBA – the Anyone But Bush Association – to put aside their own hard-core preferences when the deal goes down to make sure that George is unemployed in January of 2005. I learned that, despite my sense on occasion that there isn’t anyone out there who feels as I do and is willing to act on it, there is an army of good people across the country doing just that. I learned that George has some tough sledding ahead of him.

I learned that Dennis Kucinich is still polling in the low single digits. The political campaign analyst in me understands this: He has less cash, a few wild ideas, and is less well-known. A lot of people think Dennis has no chance to win, and they well may be right. But I learned that, in the end, there is something profoundly wrong with a country where a man like Kucinich has no chance to win the Oval Office. The point of the exercise, I learned, was to change that.

I am off again tomorrow to participate in perhaps the greatest honor of my life. I have been invited to deliver the keynote address to the Veterans for Peace National Convention in San Francisco. I will tell them about Mr. Suarez, and I will leave the wetsuit at home. Before any of that, though, I am off to Charlie's to get the meatloaf dinner. If you need me, that's where you can find me.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/080703A.shtml

Kucinich then slammed the podium and roared, “Courage, America! Courage, America! Courage, America!”

Is there an audio link?! I'd love to hear it!

so keep an eye peeled.

Will, that is ... I was on the 2nd floor balcony when DK arrived ... he got out of the vehicle ... walked toward the co-op ... looked up ... I waved at him, etc. ... then, inside, I saw someone with a DU t-shirt on ... after a little observation ... I called out "Will???" ...

"someone told him I was there" - I witnessed Dennis speaking to Will.
Saw this episode first hand.


Fernando Suarez del Solar, also, spoke briefly at the co-op - high emotion - and, he supports DK for the USA!

... and, if hearing DK begin to sing, softly, “Oh say does that Star Spangled Banner yet wave o’er the land of the free, and the home of the brave?” doesn't cause one to get that feeling ... it'll bring a tear to the eye ...

... thanks Will for helping to bring this to the attention to others ...


p.s.

I asked several people if they knew of DU ... I was surprised at those who have yet discovered DU ...

I think I'm going to have to order one of thse DU t-shirts now!

Do you know where I can hear Dennis sing that? I'd love to hear it- I who normally flee from hearing such things.

Have you seen this?

http://www.muzility.com/video/viewer.php?code=kucinich/moment

More stuff here: http://soli.inav.net/~njohnson/kucinich/


Pace

was the "A Prayer for America" speech ...
http://www.kucinich.us/speeches/speech1.htm

I thought the above was on audio file (???)


Because we did not authorize the invasion of Iraq.
We did not authorize the invasion of Iran.
We did not authorize the invasion of North Korea.
We did not authorize the bombing of civilians in Afghanistan.
We did not authorize permanent detainees in Guantanamo Bay.
We did not authorize the withdrawal from the Geneva Convention.
We did not authorize military tribunals suspending due process and habeas corpus.
We did not authorize assassination squads.
We did not authorize the resurrection of COINTELPRO.
We did not authorize the repeal of the Bill of Rights.
We did not authorize the revocation of the Constitution.
We did not authorize national identity cards.
We did not authorize the eye of Big Brother to peer from cameras throughout our cities.
We did not authorize an eye for an eye.
Nor did we ask that the blood of innocent people, who perished on September 11, be avenged with the blood of innocent villagers in Afghanistan.
We did not authorize the administration to wage war anytime, anywhere, anyhow it pleases.
We did not authorize war without end.
We did not authorize a permanent war economy.



we've seen haiku threads at DU ... DK did some haiku of
http://www.kucinich.us/speeches/speech2.htm

The implosion of the Enron Corporation is a cautionary tale of the danger to the people of our nation, to our economy, and to our political system of the influence of unfettered, unregulated corporations and the grave risks of privatization. The power industry used its influence at every level of government to create a structure which transferred at least $71 billion from California to itself. It is the Haiku of Hegemony:

Plotting gains.
False promise low rates,
Political contributions place.
Regulatory controls erase.
Energy supplies manipulate.
Shortages create.
Blackouts.
Taxpayers bled.
Ratepayers dead.
Windfall profitgate.
Earnings misstate.
Stock inflate.
Enron investigate.
Bail-outs by state.
System remains.

"The United States, brought forth by the power of human unity, seeks to be reborn. We invoke the Spirit of Freedom. We hear the cadence of courage echo across the ages: "Life, Liberty, pursuit of Happiness". Once again, the hour has come for us to stand for unity, even as our government tells us we must follow it into war. Once again the hour has come for us to be strong of heart. The direction of human unity is forward. We are on the march. It is our government which must follow, or be swept aside."

"Crown thy good, America. Crown thy good America. Crown thy good."

You can sense Dennis' depth in a Marianne Williamson type of way all throughout "Prayer for America".

I CAN'T WAIT until she starts stomping for him.

THAT's the kind of President I want as the world stands on the brink of a catastrophe.

This is truly the time for all men of good will to come forward and vote their consciences- not their wallets or special interests but their consciences. We have done such harm, created such ill-will throu-out the world, and inherited so much negative karma that I fear only a drastic, radical change can stop the karmic retribution we're in for.

I'm ranting I know ;) but what are these times?


Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.



Surely some revelation is at hand;
(...)
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Yeats

Hallowed Ground by erasure
Released on Innocents album.
------------------------------

Everybody's intent on killing someone
The streets are closed and there's a kid on the run
The bullets scream out from gun to gun
Everybody's intent on being someone

The cold and darkness of the criminal dawn
Wrapped in blankets, gotta keep themselves warm
A child in the arms of a teenage mom
Who will be there, who will be the next victim of the criminal dawn?

Old friends meet on the edge of town
Sharing conversation, hoping things'll soon get better
While the children meet, got the world at their feet
Not knowing what's around the corner
Are we living for an uncertain future?

Down by the corner sits a broken man
Lives by the bottle, swears never again
Lost his money on the dogs and gin
He looks for his supper in garbage can

The kids hang around by the old schoolground
Right by the river where the body was found
Throwing stones on hallowed ground
Who will be there, who will be the next victim of the criminal dawn?

Old friends meet on the edge of town
Sharing conversation, hoping things'll soon get better
While the children meet, got the world at their feet
Not knowing what's around the corner
Are we living for an uncertain future?
Can you hear them calling?

In the cold and darkness of the criminal dawn
Wrapped in blankets, gotta keep ourselves warm
A child in the arms of a teenage mom
Who will be there, who will be the last victim of the criminal dawn?

Old friends meet on the edge of town
Sharing conversation, hoping things'll soon get better
While the children meet, got the world at their feet
Not knowing what's around the corner
Are we living for an uncertain future?

Old friends meet on the edge of town
Sharing conversation, hoping things'll soon get better
While the children meet, got the world at their feet
Not knowing what's around the corner
Are we living for an uncertain future?

Never listened to Erasure because I've was living in a cocoon for 6 years. Will go find that song. The lyrics are so Tom Waits-ish...

I'll have to alternate that with Jack Johnson and Erik Satie to not go mad...! So much pain in this world that empaths and poets are the first at risk. Tears for Fears Mad World for sure!

Peace and thank you for sharing that

Cocoon

Well based on your smile
I'm betting all of this
Might be over soon
But your bound to win
Cause if I'm betting against you
I think I'd rather lose
But this is all that I have

So please
Take what's left of this heart and use
Please use only what you really need
You know I only have so little
So please
Mend your broken heart and leave

I know it's not your style
I can tell by the way that you move
It's real, real soon
But I'm on your side
And I don't want to be your regret
I'd rather be your cocoon
But this is all that you have

So please
Let me take what's left of your heart and I will use
I swear I'll use only what I need
I know you only have so little
So please
Let me mend my broken heart and

You said this was all you had
And it's all I need
But blah blah blah
Because it fell apart and
I guess it's all you knew
And all I have
But now we have
Only confused hearts and
I guess all we have
Is really all we need

So please
Let's take these broken hearts and use
Let's use only what we really need
You know we only have so little
So please
Take these broken hearts and leave

It's difficult as a fan of erasure to pick a favorite LP ... but The Innocents ranks very high ... even it's cover seems to talk to me on so many levels ... when I was legally challenging my employer 6 years ago ... I sent a copy to my "lighthouses", friends who were very supportive.




```````````````````````````````````````````````
The lights begin to twinkle from the rocks;
The long day wanes, the low moon climbs; the deep
Moans round with many voices. Come, my friends,
'Tis not too late to seek a newer world.

-Alfred, Lord Tennyson, Ulysses

I was living in Germany at the time and into a totally different type of music but I did recognize some familiar songs! Thanks a million- I will be downloading more from them!

Peace

http://fluxrostrum.com/video/Prayer56k.ram

there's no way anyone can say Dennis Kucinich doesn't have it

found at:
K u c i n i c h : T h e A n t i d o t e for what ails U.S.
http://www.fluxrostrum.com/MindFlux/DennisKucinich/kucinich.htm

found at:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=25161

I had not seen this. This was just excellent. Dennis Kucinich at his best!:D

Don't trust them polls though, DK is very electable.

& think tanks and DK is doing amazingly well on those so I am re-assured. :) So many people are hurting and tired and listening...

... your huddled masses... your tired... your poor...

Peace

rather than have a public gossip session about a DU'er who, while he has a couple rough edges, has done MORE to get the liberal perspective on the war OUT IN THE PUBLIC eye in a reasonable manner (and in the form of three books in one year) than most of the others on this board?

I have had my disagreements with Will..he always worked them out with me.

I certainly don't worship him but he does have my respect for being a far bigger human being than many.

1. I haven't the slightest doubt that the poster here has a genuine grievance; as you seem to imply, you find that highly probable as well. A public airing of such a grievance is vastly more satisfying than some chicken-shit ritual of private niceties.

2. Although Will desperately needs a professional editor (at least on these boards, I haven't read his book yet. Hopefully I'll read his next one), he's a potential SUPERSTAR. A national-level talent. If he is going to build a career as a public intellectual, he needs to hear these kinds of things publicly, because what he learns from this sort of public exchange is going to increase his ability to influence the civil discourse in the years ahead.

As far as I can see, it's a win-win situation.

Here he is a member of this community and has put himself out there. While he has made mistakes, he is usually big enough to apologize when called on it.


This is his refuge from that aspect of public life.

Rationalizing it only means you will work far too hard justify being an ass..at least when Will did it, it was more likely than not, a mistake and not premeditated.


as far as private chickenshit niceties...wow...I just call that being an adult...as for us in this exchange...you chose the public forum to justify poor bahavior so I had no choice but to challenge it publicly as well.

If this is a private reserve, then there's really not much difference between this thread and and e-mail, then, is there?

I mean, it's not as if the poster got up during the Q & A on C-Span2 last week and asked in a hostile manner "Why'd you call me a rookie?"

Seems to me a late-night Lounge thread is just about the PERFECT venue for this.

It took me a minute to figure out who you were referring to with "rationalizing." You think ErasureAcer was being an ass? Why didn't you write privately to him instead of making it public here, especially since I appear to be carrying the argument now and not ErasureAcer? I suppose you'd be publicly justified implying that I was acting like an ass, but all he did was ask a quick question and make a quick reply to my response.

Moreover, the core complaint was a public comment by Will. If public comments aren't fit for public comments, why not do everything by e-mail?

Will was very warm and friendly with me tonight and God knows we have had our heated debates. But he had the crowd rapt and eating from his hand. He was giving GOOD information and giving it as a teacher. Will may be brash...but as NSMA said

He "has done MORE to get the liberal perspective on the war OUT IN THE PUBLIC eye in a reasonable manner (and in the form of three books in one year) than most of the others on this board?"

Thanks Will for coming to Seattle! You Rocked and I enjoyed the baseball story.

Gbnc

... quite understand the emotional/spiritual foundation of the complaint at issue.

This isn't about "heated debates" or "rough edges." It's about a particular sort of "heat" and a very specific "edge."

For you two, I'm guessing (though not without having encountered you on numerous threads), the heat you sometimes feel from Will is with the confident understanding that you are disagreeing as peers. No matter how harsh the rhetoric, Will and you both KNOW that each other's position is at least worthy of a hearing, no matter how

The complaint here is with a habit that leads Will at times to demean and belittle the authority of his conversants, i.e., to deny that they are his peers. And THAT, as I suggested in my first post in this thread, really, really stings. And it's hard to empathize with how deeply it hurts when you possess a sense of reciprocity in the discourse regardless of how heated it is.

"the emotional/spiritual foundation of the complaint at issue."

I don't know how long you have been at DU...But believe me when I say I understand and empathize...

I won't go any further than that

But I still Like Will and respect his work...especially after hearing him tonight.

Okay, I'll take your word for it.

I've watched Will pretty much from the beginning, a couple of months or so after the board was founded, I forget exactly.

Don't post much, but I read a lot.

anymore and Will ignored me for the longest time- only answered one of my at least 5 PMs to him and rarely any of my posts or threads. No sense getting offended. When I met Will in SF and realized how much work goes into what he does, I realized he doesn't have that much time.

I shudder to think how many e-mails and PMs he gets...

accordingly...I don't show up at someone 's acknowledgement thread to tear them apart anymore than I would show up at someone's congratulatory post count thread and say "hey you were an ass with me way back when"

Again, it's decorum versus a chickenshit cheap shot...you think that's fair game..I think it's dirty pool. WE just disagree but nobody lacks an understanding of your point...it's the other way around.

I think in toto I've been respectful in my criticisms--as well as CORRECT, as almost everyone who has replied has acknowledged--and highly complimentary at times. As a matter of fact, I have no doubt that the reason this thread didn't devolve into a "trash Will/trash the trasher" flamewar is my effort at making this a serious discussion.

I did NOT take a cheap shot at Will.

He is a far more influentional person than any of the folks who expressed resentment of him on this thread. The question is WHY did some people show up on this thread and tear him apart? Why do they retain the hard feelings? I think it was Maslow who speculated on the existence of "dominant" personalities. Will sparks intense and longstanding feelings.

Your trivial concerns about "dirty pool" do not apply to such personalities.

"He is a far more influentional person than any of the folks who expressed resentment of him " I couldn't agree more...but since we are invoking Maslow et al..back to my original point..it would have been far more empowering for everyone involved to get it complete privately with him since he is an APPROACHABLE person than to whine like a baby on a thread I now hope he never sees.

I never saw why he said what he said to others who complained..he may have been right.

I don't know what to say.

Not that you have me boggled or anything, it's just that you agree with my key point in the previous post, and I agree with the key point in your post, that he may well have been right in what he said that caused the original complaint.

Nevertheless, I disagree with your hope that Will never sees this thread, for the reasons I gave to Raven below in #42.

I won't even ask you to prove to me that you're not.

:)

*ducking, fleeing, giggling like titmouse*

and the Maestro ;) himself appears...

Will Pitt- I LOVE YOUR MOTHER! Only the FINEST type of woman could raise a son who ducks into this thread and apologizes with such humor!

:hi: Raven! You're my new heroine! ;)

PS. Love you too Will- but since we all know you didn't create yourself, I'm moving my little pillow from your feet to your mother's!

Peace and that was way cool.

Just wondering.

but I am sure he means it in the nocest of ways.

185 pounds

But he hugged me...WOW I was flabbergasted.
;)

:)

I was ALL over the place! Sorry and hopefully next time!

I was in a hurry to be somewhere else on that Friday night, so I did not get to indulge and mingle with people:(

And I was on the waay left side of the stage... :( Some other time, I really hope!

If you ever pass by a Kucinich affair, slow down and see if there's a light-skinned, red-haired mulatto making a bunch of noise ;) that will be me! So stop by and say hi! I'd love to meet you! Do you live in SF and are you coming to the DU Picnic? There's a thread in the Activism Forum...

Peace!

I met him in San Francisco and will vouch that Will is one of the kindest people you will ever meet!

Will Pitt did me a life-saving favor OUT OF THE BLUE which I will never ever forget!

The minute I introduced myself his eyes lit up and he gave me a friendly and sincere kiss on the cheek. Talked a while and then he pointed out the people in the room he knew I wanted to meet

"See that lady in the black and white plaid dress? That's Rachel Corrie's mom." (wicked twinkle in his eye) and off I went leaving poor Will and Jim McDermott in the dust but Will knew I would do that and after chatting with the Corries I eventually wandered back to Will who was an absolute sweet-heart the entire night and very very easy to get along with. Will is not only kind and compassionate but one of the most brilliant people I've ever had the pleasure of talking with. Polite and sincerely kind.

The favor he did me later on is one few people would have to grace to do. Thank you Will! And thank you DU for making it so easy to meet great people like him!

I wish Will the best as his career takes off! If anyone wants to read about meeting Will Pitt that night- my thread is right here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=160436

Peace to all but most of all, good luck and great life to Will Pitt- a man with a heart of gold.

This is an interesting thread and I usually (not all the time) try not to get involved because I am obviously so biased in Will's favor.

Being dissed on DU is not fun and no one has the right to do it, Will Pitt, above all. There have been a number of threads here and on GD over the past week about courtesy in the discourse here. I know Will has read them and taken them to heart. We all should.

In his defense, I have to say that this has been a very difficult year for him, both professionally and personally. It has also been very exciting...but still difficult. It was just about a year ago that he sat up here on my porch banging out what was to become the War on Iraq. He had a very tough deadline but came up here to help me take care of my 88 year old mother bacause I had no one else to help me. I don't know many guys who would have done that so willingly. As the saying goes, he would give you the shirt off his back.

Having said that, he is 31 years old and can be rash. That edge will smooth itself out with time and more experience. He needs to be reminded of that, I think better directly than in a thread he can't respond to.

Yesterday I finally got cspan working and heard his speech to the Veterans in SF. I had read it but have never heard him speak. I say again, I had never heard my son speak in public. Never. I was, quite simply, blown away. I don't know where he learned to do this but he has a gift, a wonderful gift of both written and oral expression. I know him well enough to know that he will use it well and I'm glad he's on our side. Also, I didn't detect one hint of a Boston accent!

My mother used to say to me and my brothers when we fought "Stop that fighting, after all, you're all you've got!" We are all we've got so let's stick together, be kind to eachother, nurture and teach those who find themselves on the front lines and remember, it's going to get alot worse before it gets better. :-)

Well Raven- I hope you're damn proud of your son! He's one terrific gentle-man and I don't say that lightly!

Kudos to you for doing such a great job with him!

I call him Willie by the way and he'll hate that I told anybody that! :-)

and I told you where he gets it...;-)



Thanks Tinoire for your wonderful thread I truly enjoyed it! :hi:

:hi:

I could not agree more.

Much is expected.

And I bet a dollar to a donut that's not the first time he ever heard that!!

You're wrong about one thing, though: "He needs to be reminded of that, I think better directly than in a thread he can't respond to."

If he were here to respond, the thread would've grown too long because of others jumping in, it would've been punctuated by shallow thrust and parries by his partisans and attackers, and if Will chose to post to the thread that would have organically changed the development of this thread. It EXACTLY BECAUSE I knew Will couldn't respond that I took the opportunity to try to develop an argument about the issues addressed in this thread. It would be nice if someone bookmarked it and called it to his attention when he gets back .

I'm an Adjunct Freshman Rhetoric prof; actually, one of my jobs is at Middlesex CC. Once every couple of years I take a freshman aside and say something like, "Charisma is both a blessing and a burden. I don't have to tell you what the blessings are. The burden is, you CAN'T use it to hurt people because they don't have the ability to respond in kind."

Signing off this thread .....

one would expect you to know your assertions are false since Will is ON equal footing with others at DU, gets NO special treatment and has botha mailbox and a line called REPLY on every fucking thread where people can respond in kind.

As an administrative or technical matter, of course Will is on "equal footing" here on DU.

But if you claimed that all the posters on DU have an equal probability of taking a seat in Congress someday or of someday co-hosting Crossfire, I would reject that claim. There a non-zero probability that Will is that great of a talent. For almost everyone else, the probability rounds down to zero.

because you have cited good reasons for such...so has Osama.

Again, I have no issue with you just with the dance we are doing to justify slamming another Du'er on a thread that was intended to acknowledge him....it's like shitting on a birthday cake...sorry I am not up to playing in that highly intellectual league...guess I'm just a dumbshit underneath all my erudite meanderings.

I dumb-shit?! I'll fist-fight anyone who says that!

Uh oh, does that mean I'd have to fight you?

You're such an awesome person and poster! Let it go... as we all cheer you on for sticking to your guns and principles.

:loveya:

And the intent of a thread doesn't always match what the thread turns into.

If you start a similar thread, I promise to only contribute the "superstar, potentially great public intellectual, charismatic, future co-host of Crossfire or Congressman from Massachusetts" stuff and leave the rest out.

Okay?

there but for the grace of God...

We've all had our obnoxious moments. Some of them are forgiven by some and others never will be because insecure people bear grudges. For some odd reason, I had expected Will to be a little full of himself because of all the adulation he gets at DU and so many early successes.

I was taken aback, in a pleasant manner, when I saw that Will is one heck of a humble person and very down-to-earth; he's also extremely considerate. You don't find those qualities everyday.

I'm not attributing this to you but I think there's a little jealousy of Will at DU and there's no reason for that. We all have our God-given talents and we all either use them or lose them. More power to Will as he uses them! And more power to Raven for giving Will the support to up and chuck a secure job to risk it all on political writing, speaking, and touring.

Here's to you Jfxgillis, me, and all of us using those talents! :toast:

a little jealousy. I'd call that an understatement.

Frankly, although as I mentioned above I've observed these dynamics for sometime, other than that first comment a year or more ago, I just let it pass because I figured interefering in the personal or quasi-personal dynamics involved was way way WAY WAY WAY more hassle that it merited.

But then I saw Will's San Francisco appearance on C-Span and I thought, this was my exact thought, "Holy fucking shit, this asshole is a motherfucking SUPERSTAR."

And boy, did that judgment ever raise the stakes as far as I was concerned. So when this thread came along that seemed so well-suited to expressing my concerns, I leapt at the opportunity. The fact that Will isn't here to (naturally and understandly) become defensive on a subject to which he is so intimately connected (hisself) is just a big bit of lagnaippe.

I had 4 mai tai's :shrug: man was the hanover something else .

I was great meeting him .

I finally got my books signed YAYYYYYYY !

on edit : I meant this as a reply to the original
post . :hi:

I guess I've FINALLY grown up! I stopped at 1 & 1/2 Mai Tai's! Those were GREAT and wicked strong!

Hmmm... wonder if SF Bay DUers might somehow stumble in there tomorrow night ;)

I meant to buy 2 of Will's book and have them signed- one for me and one for John Kleeb but I didn't have time.

As it is now, I'm going to buy Paradise Lost and send that to Will for a dedication.

See you soon :)

:hi:

Now you're gonna swell up his head!

"Holy fucking shit, this asshole is a motherfucking SUPERSTAR."

Not yet, not yet. But oh yeah, he's on his way if that's what he wants. Keep your fingers crossed and give it time.

Personally, I wouldn't wish superstardom on anyone- but hey, that's just me :shrug: I'll tell you what though- more importantly- a nice mensch.

I hope he retains a bit of it for his own sake.

Side note: Raven, made your cheese and tomato pie the other night and we all died and went to heaven. Many thanks from beyond for sharing that recipe! :)

And just in time for the DU picnic tomorrow!

Do you have a link?

Peace and thanks!

If we can get through these primaries alive, here's looking at the
National DU gathering DoveTurnedHawk was thinking of organizing!

Reminds me to check into hotels...

Peace

I am a terrible cook but I really loved that one. I have a really nice one for blueberry muffins. Here it is and it is just great with freshly picked blueberries.

2 eggs
1/2 cup of firmly packed light or dark brown sugar
1/3 cup canola oil
1/2 cup heavy (double) cream
1/2 cup whole milk
1 1/2 tsp of vanilla extract
2 1/4 cups of all purpose flour
2 tsp of baking powder
1/4 tsp nutmeg (freshly grated ideal but not necessary)
1/8 tsp fine sea salt (regular salt would probably do)
3 tblsp of melted unsalted butter
1 1/2 cups of blueberries (they can be frozen)

Preheat the oven to 400
In a large glass pitcher mhisk together the eggs, brown sugan, canola oil, cream, milk and vanilla.

In a large bowl sift together the flour, baking powder, nutmeg and salt. Make a well in the center and slowly pour in the egg mixture. Gradually mix until just combined. Add the melted butter and stir until almost smooth but still slightly lumpy. This batter will be fairly thick.

Gently fold the blueberries in and even distribute them.

Bake for 20-22 minutes. After the muffins are done, let them cool for about 5 minutes.

These seem to freeze well too. :-)

and cooking magazines. It has become my hobby as of late. Thanks again and I'll let you know how they turn out!:-)

and then I will be able to see our Will Pitt in person too!

:kick:

DemEx

:smoke: :smoke:

What I would give to be there with you!

Peace and I hope that happens!

:smoke: :smoke:

But now that I've become middle aged and have 20 year olds of my own its just a nice city nearby.....

:hi:
DemEx

:smoke: :smoke:

What I would give to be there with you!

Peace and I hope that happens!

thang down for the talk show guy in Seattle. It was so cool to hear both of you at once. I hope the experience of meeting him was great!

But, I have previous committments to honor with my children. If you notice the sky a little brighter to the south, know it's me in Tacoma smiling -- just knowing Will is in our neck of the woods. I'm so glad he's on our side!

I'm out in Puyallup, land of pickup trucks and B*sh/Cheney bumperstickers. :hi:

Don't forget land of Big Hair as well.

the way. I swear, I've seen pickup trucks here that would make the USS Nimitz feel inadequate. And have you noticed? Those penile-ly challenged owners never HAUL anything in their precious trucks? It's just a form of compensation. And their "I support President George W. Bush and our troops" bumperstickers are just a form of stupidity writ large.

I started to see these huge pickups with those ultra thin tires. Now there is no doubt people are buying those gas guzzlers for looks not function. We have, what, maybe 40 years of oil left on the planet, and people are using it on this. Those folks really don't care about the future!

:hi:

hicks in the sticks? Shoot, I lived in Tacoma for nearly fifteen years. Man, I wish I still did. It's a marvel of liberalism and progressiveness compared to Puyallup.

I consider it a complement :-)

LIGHTEN UP! I live in Texas and only say HOWDY to people I LIKE. :D

Please, for god's sake, no one start a "What's with all the HOWDY bashing?" thread.

Please, no, not that...

Mods, can we filter all text, so that all hi's, howdy's etc, become "Bonjour". That would fix this mess I've created!

Howdy is a compliment! Just like Skittles says

Will was on a radio talk show, hmmm, about 6 weeks ago, and you called in -- no hint of a Texas accent. I would've guessed midwest maybe (like me).

Born in El Paso and the family now lives 10 miles south of Crawford. Yes they are Right Wingers.

Ok, so, we have Raven, who obviously knows how to raise children, and we have you with the Crawford connection:

Next time W goes on vacation, which is about every other week, we fly Raven down to Crawford, and she tends to W for a couple of weeks, and -- if we could get even 0.1 % of Will's intelligence from his upbringing installed in W's mind, that'd be a dramatic improvement!

This is a nonpartisan issue if ever there was one, I'm sure your family wouldn't mind picking up Raven from the airport ;-)

But there is no Airport where my family lives. Besides, they think GW is just fine the way he is. My sisters think he is "Cute" :puke:

legally blind?:crazy:

We all have freeper relatives. My mother is devoted to Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and thinks GW can do no wrong. She has recently discovered Joe Scarborough. Just yesterday, I tried to tell her the truth about him, but she said that I was crazy. I will never learn.:shrug:

I just wish I could put that many miles between us! Life would be much more serene.:-)

and Stupid.

me? I used to say 'howdy' a lot. Then I had this one girlfriend. I ran into her with a bunch of her friends one time and said "howdy!" She kind of smirked and said "Tee-hee-hee, he said 'howdy'". Well, she wasn't my girlfriend after that, I can tell you. I knew I was with the right woman (who is now my wife) when we were out on a date one night at a buffet-style place. I had just had a couple of plates of salad, and was heading back to the buffet. She said "Aren't you going to have some real food?" I said: "That's what I'm fixin' to do."
She said: "Fixin'! That's so CUTE!"

At that moment, I knew we were meant to be together. :-)

is it genetic or what?

Alabama, uses "down yonder" a lot. I've never said that phrase in my life, and I've only just typed for the first time right now.

...instead of a "To Do" list...I have a "Fixin' to do" list! :D

that's good! :thumbsup:

if you like, you can come kick my ass if you want to. I hear you're good at it. ;-)

"Will? Hi. I'm CosmicDot."

see post #57

Instead of after September 17 when I will be there?

I would have been too...Maybe he will come to your fair city...

:hi: Really, he'd get a good crowd in Albany!

Are there many of us up here? (I'm in Greenwich, not far at all). Any chance of an Albany DU get together?

I'm about an hour north of albany. probably no chance of me getting together with anybody, but I know there are more of us! :)

Are you my reclusive neighbor?:shrug:

:D

I'll introduce you to everyone. They are mostly freepers, but harmless, I promise.:D

:-)

(just kidding - will is a sweetheart isn't he???)

But really like him now...He has a very engaging way about him.

even when you try to disguise it, I can tell your heart is as big as they get.

Glad you all have the chance to meet up. You're all good folks in my book.

:loveya:

;-)

It was really great to meet you, and you are exactly as awesome in person as you are here. Now I'm going to take you out and get you drunk.

GBNC is NOT much of a drinker. I will try myself when I am in Seattle next month. For now, I want to hear if the stories he tells me about him and beer are true or not.

Thanks for signing the book.

That would be suitable for framing.:-)

I am not going to ask if he bought you dinner. I imagine that has already been said. I hope you treated him to one of your great chicken subs, which he would, no doubt, appreciate, as they are not available in many places, including Upstate New York.:-(

I visited my local Subway a couple of weeks ago. I ordered a sub and some potato nuggets. They said that the potato nuggets were not available there, at that time. When?! It was the dinner hour. I got the potato nuggets at the drive-thru at another place, nearby, Mr. B's. All the women gathered in the drive-thru window to make a fuss over my little dog that I had riding with me. Yes, he was the main reason I got the potato nuggets. Nobody seemed to care that they weren't available at Subway.:shrug:

camera shy.

If Will can see you, why can't I? I'm jealous.:-(

j/k

I only heard his C-SPAN speech and was deeply moved. I bet he kicks ass in person, eh?

I saved the C-Span2 link that was posted on the thread about his speech. I just checked and it still works, if you'd like to hear it again. I had missed the beginning because I was telling my friend to tune in.:-)

http://www.c-span.org/Search/basic.asp?ResultStart=1&ResultCount=10&BasicQueryText=%22veterans+for+peace%22