OK, last poll from me ever, is it "Tow the Line" or "Toe the Line"?

Enquiring minds want to know!

but I think it is toe the line. Standing at the scratch line meant drawing a line to start a fight I believe. Toe the line was to accept the challenge. You notice I am not very positive about this but I remember reading something about it a while back but I can't be certain what it was I read either! Very definitive answer here.......

but everytime it pops up on DU, it's Tow the line, or towing the line, it drives me fucking nuts. mostly because I'm pretty damn sure I'm right, but could be wrong.

:argh:

but I think it is toe the line. Standing at the scratch line meant drawing a line to start a fight I believe. Toe the line was to accept the challenge. You notice I am not very positive about this but I remember reading something about it a while back but I can't be certain what it was I read either! Very definitive answer here.......

on edit...sorry the answer was bad to begin with but you should not have to look at it twice!! Having trouble posting

it's a military expression for lining up in formation. Everyone puts their toes on the imaginary line...

To "toe the line" is to stand up as if you were at attention and in formation.

That's what my Dad always said, and he's a veteran.

Toes on the line was big in bootcamp, but I never heard that phrase, it was more "Get on line!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

(us) Get on line aye sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

repeat about four times, even after we've been standing there for a good minute

http://phrases.shu.ac.uk/bulletin_board/12/messages/697.html

If you are asked toe the line the you are expected to conform to the rules of the situation. In one suggested origin the Line actually exists and is found in the House of Commons. It was put there to mark the sword distance between Government and Opposition front benches. Members were told to toe the line if, in the eyes of the Speaker, they became too excited.
A less romantic possible basis is found in athletics where the runners in a race line up with their toes on the line.

The US navy has a completely different origin. From their web site comes:
The space between each pair of deck planks in a wooden ship was filled with a packing material called "oakum" and then sealed with a mixture of pitch and tar. The result, from afar, was a series of parallel lines a half-foot or so apart, running the length of the deck.

Once a week, as a rule, usually on Sunday, a warship's crew was ordered to fall in at quarters -- that is, each group of men into which the crew was divided would line up in formation in a given area of the deck. To insure a neat alignment of each row, the Sailors were directed to stand with their toes just touching a particular seam.
Another use for these seams was punitive. The youngsters in a ship, be they ship's boys or student officers, might be required to stand with their toes just touching a designated seam for a length of time as punishment for some minor infraction of discipline, such as talking or fidgeting at the wrong time. A tough captain might require the miscreant to stand there, not talking to anyone, in fair weather or foul, for hours at a time. Hopefully, he would learn it was easier and more pleasant to conduct himself in the required manner rather than suffer the punishment.

From these two uses of deck seams comes our cautionary word to obstreperous youngsters to "toe the line."

I've taken the tour, which is excellent, although your have to arrange it a month or two in advance.

"Before the Queensberry rules were devised, English prizefights were long and bloody. There was no footwork, and no tactics aside from dirty ones. No attempt was made to evade blows from an opponent. Their bare fists often hardened from soaking in walnut juice, fighters firmly placed their toes on a line officials marked in the center of the ring and slugged it out until one man fell, thus ending the round. The fighters then staggered or were dragged back to their corners for 30 seconds and the match continued until one man couldn't come out to toe the line when the bell rang for the next round. One of these bouts, the Burke-Byrne fight in 1833, lasted 99 rounds, and poor Byrne--who never gave up---died from the beating he took. The sight of lurching, leaden-armed, broken-handed fighters toeing the line for hours at a time, and doing their job of battering each other bloody and senseless with superhuman willpower, inspired the saying to toe the line, 'to do one's job, to live up to what is expected of you or conform to the rules.' That the expression was an early one used in track events, meaning that all contestants must place their forward foot on the starting line ('Get ready, get on your mark . . .') also contributed to the popularity of this phrase."

edit: Backslash...meh.

'Queensbury Rules,' ...yes?

but that's how it's printed in the source I got it from.

edit: Silly me, I thought you were pointing out the uncapitalized 'R.' No, I'm pretty sure it's "Queensberry."

and prize-fights, then it should be "Queensbury." The Queensbury Rules were so named after the Marquis of Queensbury, and first introduced in Britain in the 1860's.

I really wouldn't know which it is, but that is faithful to the source, Robert Hendrickson's Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins. Checking with Google right now, I can find around 3,000 pages for "queensberry rules" and 5,500 for "queensbury rules." Critics that spend their eyes to find a hair upon an egg. . . . But I wouldn't really know.

Also, it's row to hoe (not road to hoe), it's weigh anchor (not way anchor), iced tea (not ice tea), daylight saving (not savings) time, should have (not should of), and the one that I keep seeing on DU--
lose (not loose--as in "Bush will LOSE in 2004").

:nuke:

I, too, am an English instructor at university.

Wait until you've seen the number of DUers who spell it "definately."

I will be back soonly.

Another :nuke:

"ifs, ands, or buts." That should be "ifs, ans, or buts." Also, I'll throw in "champing <not chomping> at the bit," although I doubt there is any end to bastardized phrases. English is an evolving language, remember, though!

edit: Meh! Messed up bracket-related things again. Replace angle brackets with standard ones, please.

Grrrr!

on "Scarborough County" from another DU link. Referring to the 10 commandments in the Alabama courthouse he said,

"So the answer is, yes, that monument will be moved, in my opinion. I can’t imagine that this court is going to allow the order to be flaunted."

No, no, no, it's FLOUTED. One "flouts" the law when one deliberately disobeys it. One "flaunts" something they are proud of, often to the disapproval of others, as in "she flaunted her pneumatic bosom in the poor preacher's face."

"I couldn't fathom" This also puts my teeth on edge. If you talk to her (she is a compulsive liar btw), she will tell you how many degrees she has (it's really only one associates), how she is two credits shy of a law degree (horse puckey), and how she helped perform retinal surgery in a past job (should be past life)...and yet she says phantom. Arrrrggggghhhh!!!!!

is one that drives me nuts.

it sounds suspiciously like a definition of trolling!!!


Interesting explanations of "toe the line." I'm not sure I ever heard an explanation before, just assumed it had to do with putting one's toes on the starting line of a race.

Drives me nuts. Should be 'same old, same old.'