"You're pretty. But not, like, Victoria's Secret pretty."

I feel like I've now heard it all.

Someone actually said that to a woman he's dating. She really likes him, thinks he's great and wonderful, is convinced that he is responsible for hanging the moon and other nice things. And then he has to go and say that.

"You're pretty. But not, like, Victoria's Secret or Sports Illustrated Swimsuit pretty."

She asked me why a guy would say something like that, and whether it's really a compliment. I told her it translates roughly to "I'm thinking about joining a monestary and don't want to have sex ever again in my life." Come on, guys. That's not a compliment. Far from it.

I did think of some good retorts for her to say to him.

"You're strong, but not like Muscle & Fitness strong."
"You have a big wiener, but not like a porn star wiener."
"You're smart, but not like high school smart."

The strange thing is, I think he was sincere. I just think he's too stupid to know the difference.

So whadda ya think she should do? Reciprocate with one of the above? Dump the idiot? Buy him some monk's robes?

he's married to Uma Thurman and in refernce to her beauty said something like "it's not like she looks like Uma Thurman when she wakes up in the morning".

It's one of two things

1- He's too stupid to know that what he said was a offensive, in which case he isn't worth your friends time.

2- He doesn't care if it's offensive, in which case he's an asshole.

If such is the case, you know the phenomenon; "Anna Kourinokova? Meh," coming from a Net geek who's lieing in his parents' basement and hasn't had a date in months.

To the point of the thread: that's a damn dumb thing to say, if he has any interest in your friend whatsoever. I can't see how any ensuing relationship would be worth your friend's time or emotional investment.

Romance for Dummies
at amazon. com or at your local book store!

But maybe it's one small drawback compared to many other positive things about him. She should just tell him he hurt her feelings and see where it goes from there.

Tell her I'm available; I'd never say anything THAT stupid!

Your double #6 checked me out; he can give you a full report on what a great guy I am. :D

or stupid as all f*** and either way she should run, not walk, away from this clod.

there ya go: my Texasism for the evening!

My Texasism for the wee hours of the mornin'.

I'm going to bed now....

Was that ALL he said? Maybe there was more and he can be redeemed here....

I told my ex-wife (well, she was my wife at the time) that she wasn't "cheap, pop-star cute", but that she had classic beauty, like Katherine Hepburn (she actually did look like a young Kattherine Hepburn...or a 5-year-ago Jodi Foster).

She seemed happy with it at the time...


...hmm...she IS my EX-wife....I wonder....

admit it... :D

so that he's aware what he's said is hurtful rather than a compliment. Chances are good that his response to a clear, direct assertion of her perception of the comment will reveal the best possible path.

Some guys I've been quite close to have been known to make amazingly stupid statements which sound quite bad on the face of it. But then, some guys just have a knack for getting both feet in their mouth all the way up to mid-shin.

Sure, if there are other problems with their interactions, maybe she should take this opportunity to beat feet.

I'm also going to point out that we don't know the context of the conversation. Maybe he was saying he thought she was more "Cosmopolitan," "Vogue," and "Elle," kind of pretty rather than
the two publications he mentioned. Maybe the girl is utterly lovely, but in a 'wholesome' sort of way and he tried to articulated that with horrific result.

he should get him to clarify exactly what he meant.

Obviously this guy's an idiot. It's better to be alone than to be hooked up with a numbskull like this. Why take on a project?

and take a closer look at this guy. Could be he hung the moon crooked.
Maybe he just had a cloddish moment; but my experiences with guys like that years ago tell me this one isn't relationship material...at least, not yet.

Maybe if she waits a little before investing more emotion in him, he'll start to notice her beauty and comment on it...frequently, and with careful attention to what is specifically beautiful about her. If he doesn't, it offers her the opportunity to find someone who appreciates her.

And if he says something like that again, I'd say one of your responses is totally apropos as she's waving bye-bye.

I once asked a girlfriend why she bothered wearing a bra. The look I got said it all.

Damn. Amazingly, I survived that one.

In ten years, he'll be wondering why his relationships don't work out.

Who the hell needs that? He sounds like the kind of guy who when things got tough would seek solace in the arms of teenboppers. No thanks.

Some guys just aren't too bright when it comes to women. I doubt he even realizes he hurt her feelings.

reciprocate, then dump him. Let him buy his own dang robes.

at first glance.

Consider. Suppose SHE know's she's not "pretty," and he knows she knows it.

Then, when she asks him "Am I pretty?" he's in a spot. If he says "Yes," she knows he's lying, which makes him a liar, which makes him a dubious match. If he says "No," she knows he's brutal, which makes him a dubious match.

If you had ever been on the male side of a woman asking the dreaded "Am I fat?" queastion, you would know whereof I speak.

Which is not say that the guy wasn't clumsy and short-sighted, but then, depending on how young the couple is (mid-20s or youngfer?), clumsy and short-sighted kinda goes with the territory.

Centerfolds----in ads or in "special issues"

Pretty immature standards of beauty that hint not at the "appreciation of the feminine form" but a guy who thinks the height of beauty is the centerfold girl. I'd guess that he's dreaming that she'll do in "real life" unless he gets lucky and gets one them super-models all to himself!


If he's over 20, dump his ass. Not because he is clumsy but because he is painfully immature for someone past sophmore year of college (or two years working in the world after high school). If he's under 20 or so, then he might just be *young* and she'll be part of his learning curve socially...

You said 20, I said mid-20s.

Wanna split the difference and say if he's older than 22 and a half, he shouldda known better?

so the 3rd statement is unfair.

I wonder what she said before he said this. It sounds like a response to a question. Was she fishing for compliments? Sometimes you catch things you don't like.


One more thing. Is she, in fact, pretty? If so, to what degree? If she looks like the elephant man and asked "Do you think I could be a catalogue model?" then he was being generous.

Funny that he would be dumb enough to say that.

I said something akin to that to a woman once.

The point I was trying to make was that she didn't look like a model but that she was beautiful in a very individual and appealing way.

Didn't go over well, and I blame myself.

I presume:

I could look at you all night.

"Do you FEEL fat?"

Then if she says she does "feel fat," ask her why.

The exception is if she's not in a manner, shape or form even remotely fat, 5'6" 105 lb or something like that. Then you gotta worry about eating disorder.

"Well, a certain percentage of you consists of fat" ;-)

You're in the dumpster with the dude in the root post.

Made me laugh out loud, though. Good answer.

would fall short too...

"Does the pope shit in the woods?"
or alternately "Is a bear Catholic?"

Either way you can't be held to a position.

of a friend who likes Dangerfield jokes with blown punch lines, i.e:

"Take my wife...for example!" or
"Horse walks into a bar. The bartender says, 'What'll it be?'"

I know that the punchline to the first one is supposed to be "please"

The political version goes like this:

Horse walks into a bar. Bartender asks "The usual?" John Kerry walks in next. "Why the long face? the bartender asks.

"Just flew in from the coast, and boy is it warm here!"

your Cyrano DeBergerac if you ever expect to get married.

I'm cheap, though.

I found a woman who could live with my sense of humor and the occasional misstep.

because it encourages communication not only with you, but with herself. But I don't think anorexia should be an exception. If she suffers from that disorder, it's even more important to encourage her to talk about her feelings. You might be able to convince her that she should get counseling.

I meant talking about it might not be enough in that case, i.e., you might need professional help.

Are you in the market for a good Cyrano DeBergerac?

My other strong lead fell through.

If a woman seeks a man who is does not spend all day sprawled on the couch in a vodka-induced coma, I'm her man, at least on weekdays.

... MEMORIZE my answer to "Am I fat?"

I know a guy who actually told his girlfriend that.

They didn't stay together too much longer after that one.

Did she ask if you thought she was pretty?

I learned a long time ago that you never ask a guy if you look pretty. It was so bizarre watching this poor fella look around for a hole to hide in. Women should never ask this question.

On the other hand, if a guy really cares about a woman, they shouldn't have to ask. I think people (not limited to either sex)should look for the beauty in each other and talk about it frequently. Maybe they'd find they're much more beautiful than the plastered painted excuses for selling underwear.

OMG, twenty years later..."You're much more beautiful than the plastered painted excuses for selling underwear".

You're great Goddess. I hope you're in advertising. I'm gonna call that girl up right now, let's see... where's my phone book...

Personally, I prefer a woman who looks like she eats a couple of full meals every day. Call me weird, but the emaciated look simply does not turn me on!

No one in Victoria's Secret looks emaciated. Those girls are curvy and well-endowed.

they have implants. And we've adjusted to thin women with big boobs as the standard. They aren't emaciated - but they sure as heck aren't representative of the general population.

that sounds like a really dumb thing to say, but i can imagine at least one context where it might not be so dumb. maybe he was trying to say that he likes her for more than her looks. or that she has charms that go beyond the mere physical. why make assumptions? ask him what he meant, and if his answers aren't acceptable - then dump him with no regrets.

"You're pretty. But not, like, Victoria's Secret or Sports Illustrated Swimsuit pretty."

I don't know your friend, or him - so maybe I'm wrong here - but can't that be read potentially as a criticism of Victoria's Secret or Sports Illustrated Swimsuit pretty? Maybe they guy thinks she's Lane Bryant/REI/HotTopic/AARP/somethingelse pretty and he thinks that's preferable but just didn't have the capability or forethought to express it in a way that she'd understand?

Maybe I'm wrong, like I said I don't know your friend or the guy.

"You're pretty, but not Victoria's Secret or Sports Illustrated pretty." (Pause.) "You're much more classic, like Da Vinci silverpoint angel pretty..."

Tucker

'Did anyone ever tell you look like Roseanne Barr?'.
I don't think he meant it as a compliment. If I was thinking fast, I would have said, yes that is right, I am a cross between Roseanne Barr and Kathy Bates - now watch out!

I think I'd rather hear that than be told I was supermodel-gorgeous when I *know* I'm not. Because I'm extremely insecure about my looks, anyone telling me I was ultra-hot would cause me to worry that they were not being completely honest.

Tucker

... it sounds like a legit compliment to me. Maybe he's not Shakespeare, but seems he's basically trying to say that she pretty, even though she doesn't fit some mass-media/societal expectation of "beauty".

If he's wonderful in every other way, then I'd say forgive his failure to speak poetry.

Men like that are a dime a dozen.

But of course, wouldn't use it on people who didn't know me...

but those who know me would realize that I think the SI Swimsuit models are tacky looking with their airbrushing, enhanced boobs and bad makeup and vacant eyes bespeaking a level of literacy that might approach junior high level, and the Victoria's Secret ones, while a bit more natural, are still not very natural looking.

So it would be "You are pretty, and not that vapid societal-induced big boob sludgery unnatural look that so many men think is "hot" or "pretty", which it isn't."

Why men go gaga over the SI swimmers and VS and other enhanced, madeup, airbrushed women is beyond me, except that I realize a lot of men are just dumb and think with their testicles and view women as flotation devices holding up an entertainment console.

One day I'll post a thread about it, LOL. I've never met a guy who considered the airbrushing/safety pins in back of the dress to curve up the model/etc. to be FAKE.

The closest I ever got was "Okay, maybe she has on makeup, maybe they airbrushed a zit, but that's what she looks like, or else she wouldn't be a model. You can't airbrush good looks".

I've known men who can't tell when a girl is wearing extensions, even if they're done badly, men who can't tell if a woman is wearing foundation (actually had a college friend ask his girl buddies why they took all that time to get ready when they couldn't be natural like X, a girl who wore about an inch of foundation every day and probably took just as "long" as we did).

They don't get it. Some on DU may, but most of them.....

I just don't get it.

part of me is rather proud that I'm a guy who ISN'T into that au crapural fake look.

I just wish that society would change enough that a) men stop thinking that fake stuff looks good, and b) women stop buying into it.

Plain look is so much better.

I've believed that all my life; had people trying to dress me up like a doll all my life, and was relieved to be married to someone who preferred plain...until he left 12 years later with young and painted.

Meanwhile, I'm 43, and just had a guy at work tell me how "cute" my hair would be if I would just cut, color, and style it a certain way.

make up and other beauty accessories are as old as human culture. You may like plain, but most of us dont. I do agree that looking completely fake is ridiculous, but taking it extreme the other way is just as crazy.

"You may like plain, but most of us dont." Link or citation would be cool if you have one.

but if most men liked plain looking women then the magazines would be plastered with pictures of Amish women. There isnt some huge conspiracy to make American men like women with make-up or any other beauty accessories. There is a reason that even primitive cultures use make up, and its not becasue the US media told them so. Im not saying there is anything wrong with being plain, or even liking plain, Im just saying that the vast majority of people are not attracted to plain.

Using magazines as a guide doesn't take them into account. That's why I was looking for a poll. Also, don't most magazines make money from advertising beauty things like makeup/cologne etc? If everyone was natural, what would there be to sell? I think, although I'm not certain, that there seems to be an interest on behalf of the magazines of perpetuating the idea that people need some sort of beauty add-ons. Using fashion/beauty magazines as a guide - things that cater to the idea that beauty isn't what your born with but something to be attained through purchase of products, services, or guides (like magazines) wouldn't seem to me to be an appropriate judge of what the average guy finds 'pretty'. An average guy could see beautiful natural looking women everywhere, so magazines have to portray the unnatural to generate sales. Just some thoughts, I'm not sure I've settled on a position yet :)

Edited to add:
That's probably a little less coherent/straightforward than I intended it to be. I can clean it up later on when I have more time if you'd like.

its like the chicken and egg arguement. The magazines and popular culture saturate us with such images of women in order to generate sales which gradually begins to set the standard for what beautiful is. But then again maybe the media has taken notice of what we fnd beautiful and are only feeding our (as in the general population) thier desires. Primitive peoples with thier nose rings, face paint, scarrifications, earrings, eye shadow, tattoos have all used add-ons to enhance physical appearance all across the world. So I dont think that looking "plain" is is what the average human finds attractive whether influenced by media or not.

On a happy note not everything they have tried to push on us has worked. I remember when people were scared the "Ethopia" look i.e "I look starved", was going to be very popular. Well apart from some already mentally imbalanced people most females did not decide to starve themselves and most men are turned off by that look.

Reminds me of my late 85 year old uncle who was a total physical wreck in a nursing home. He still passed judgement on every nurse who came into his room -- very explicit judgement on how much of a babe or not she was. Never mind that he was totally dependent on them and couldn't have lived for 24 hours without their help.

Why do men think it is theirs to judge, no matter who or what they may be themselves?

And why do women keep asking them? Stop the idiocy!

"Hit the road, Jack
and don't you come back
no more, no more, no more, no more"

Word to the WISE men out there: when a compliment is given, make it specific and don't make it a backhanded one like that "Victoria's" comment.

If you are asked about "pretty," say yes, then reach over and gently kiss a pretty part. My husband did that and we have been married for 8 years, together for 11. And he's 12 years younger than me.

I know I'm attractive, but I still asked the question. Even if it is just fishing for a compliment, USE YOUR DAMN HEADS, guys. There is no other answer besides, YES. REPEAT IT OVER AND OVER TILL YOU GET IT RIGHT. Any man who would make me feel "un" no matter if he's ignorant, stupid, or just an asshole would keep my attractive backside as a haunting last memory.

The proper answer to "Do I look fat?" is: No, I just love your (favorite body part here).

Blondatlast is happy to offer advice to the ignorant--I've been through it all, and have the successful relationship to prove it.

"Well, you're a good date/ Not like a "you're dating me date."

You don't have big boobs.

What a jerk the guy should rot in hell for telling someone she needs to look like an airbrushed model.

assholish thing I've heard all week. He sounds like a big enough boob all by himself.

That's what he's really telling her.

But, we need to know why he talked about her looks in the first place. Did she ask him if he thought she was pretty (bad move)?

At any rate, that sentence says to me that he doesn't think she is as great as she thinks he is.

He must look really great because he sure seem pretty clueless.

He is still looking for his "dream girl," and he will always be expecting someone "better" to come along. She should not waste one more second of her life on this situation.

I am older and I still remember the stupid jerk that told me that I didn't have BOOBS and he couldn't marry me.

She doesn't need someone who is superficial she needs a GOOD MAN!

The guy's either a jerk or a moron.

Dump that loser.

What is wrong with that guy anyways??? please, even if she is not a beauty he is dating her and he could treat her better.

An early remark from my husband. Another classic: "You smell like guinea pig." (I had been grooming my pet rabbit at the time, but it was still unnecessary.) He was corrected and has since learned to keep these observations to himself.