I almost walked out of church (an angry Vanity)

First of all, it's not really my church. I'm a catholic and I wound up going to this...evangelical I would call it...new church near Simi Valley CA. Its a livlier service and I have a couple of good frieds who go there making it a friendly environment.

Their having their annual 'revival' and the pastor kept talking about how great it would be if all of L.A. would find their spirituality. Then he started in on how the country is turning to sin and Hollywood and immorality; all stuff I've heard before and woulld expect from this church.

Then this meathead pastor starts spewing crap about the ninth circuit court and 'geniuses' on the supreme court and prayer in schools and the separation of church and state. He read a letter from some anonymous person that totally savaged the ACLU and how America was founded on Christian principles and the Ten Commandments.

Now I am a firm supporter of the separation of Church and state...not only because it gets religion out of Government, but also so I don't have to have my church time bombarded by some Right Wing Fox News talking points Garbage. This dipshit preacher had the lights lowered and had selected quotes from Franklin, Madison, and Jefferson projected onto the screens all intended to gloss over the subject for his lemming/sheep followers who were all saying 'Amen'.

I wanted to either stand up and walk out, or go to the pulpit and tell them what Franklin REALLY thought about religion. What pissed me off was if my time at church was to be bombarded by politics, I would have like to have heard a well reasoned, well thought out argument, not something this twit read on the opening page of a website the night before. Suffice it to say, I am not coming back...I'll stick to my dry, plain, apolitical Catholic church. Thank you very much.

there to protect religion from government, primarily...believe it or not.

Religion in government was/is the danger.

It dosen't matter how the combination comes about really. IT is never, ever, a good thing when you allow the two to walk hand in hand. Both the government, and the ascendant relegion, suffer.

Isreal, Saudi Arabia, Mideval Britian, Afganistan...all very good examples of this.

I think the Founding Fathers' concern was keeping government out of religion. Our challenge is keeping religion out of government.

Try a Unity church. They are absolutely wonderful. Or Unitarian - they care about activism and spirituality both... or Religious Science. ANYTHING BUT THOSE EVANGELICALS!!!

not all religious people are fanatics like the preacher mentioned above. Some respect the constitution and don't push this crap.

I never expected to hear this in this church. He said someone asked 'what about atheists'? His reply was "What about them?" He had a diatribe about being able to walk away or not listen yada yada yada.

It was some weird station I found while surfing channels. Some idiot was pushing for making Christianity the official religion of the US and was asking for donations to fight the fight..

Maybe these fundies are organizing en masse to push this into the govt. We need to be very afraid!

...the one that states unequivocvally that we are not a Christian country, adn take it to your pastor. Ask him kindly, and calmly, to use it as well next time. Then make sure to leave copies in the hymn books, just in case. The personal letters of teh FF's do not stack up against official treaties and documents. What they may have desired personally, and what they actually worked toward professionally, are two different things. Too bad we can't seem to get the same thing from our government now.

and the Lutherans I grew up with were adamant about the separation of church and state. It was our unyielding position that if the state got involved with religion, it could start telling us what to believe, and how to act. That rendering unto Caesar business was taken very seriously.

We could, of course, tell the state what to do, but that had little to do with religion. As citizens, we own the state, and our positions may have had some basis in our religion, but the law has to have secular arguments and apply to the general population. "God says so" just doesn't cut it outside of the chapel.

As a Quaker, I am now even more adamant about it. Our history is one of battling the state at almost every turn.

Totally unconvincing to the fundies, but good for your own peace of mind, is The Virginia Statute of Religious Freedom. It was the source of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, and Jefferson considered it as his finest achievement-- even greater than the Declaration of Independance or his Presidency.


http://usinfo.state.gov/usa/infousa/facts/democrac/42.htm

http://www.pbs.org/jefferson/enlight/religi.htm

http://www.vahistorical.org/education/religiousfreedom.htm

The pastor even railed against EVOLUTION being taught in our schools.

No need to shout, to say anything to the blatherer -- just vote with your feet. But it's more effective to vote immediately, rather than by simply not coming back.

I worked the Thousand Oaks Street Fair yesterday and I swear every RW fundy GOP nutjob ruined my day (worked a feminist activism table).

AND it was 100 degrees on the asphalt. Called it a day when I was going to really get in trouble with the "pro-life" assembly candidate's volunteers at the table next to me.

n/t

Isn't that kind of a "conservative corridor," that back side of the SFV, up to Santa Clarita?

Shucks, I should talk. I'm in "Bakersfield by the Sea."