So what's the scoop with Narnia, keep reading how fundies are crazy for it

I have to admit that I've never read any of the Narnia books when I was a kid. They weren't heavily promoted in school and was never required to read any for a class.

Now I'm reading everywhere that this is like the greatest thing since "The Passions of the Christ" & Left Behind series combined. Churches are lining up for field trips to go see this movie.


I stand corrected - Liam Neeson is the Lion. Rupert Everett is the Fox (and that my friends - he is!)

If I am correct, CS Lewis was Catholic...and a contemporary of JRR Tolkein.

Tolkien was a Catholic. They were colleagues, friends, and had a friendly writing rivalry for years.

To be annoying. And trust me, I know Anglo-Catholics, and they get all crazed if you call them Anglican.

Was allegedly an atheist who converted later in life. TLTWATW is somewhat of an allegory. Kinda. Sorta. I suggest you read the books or read up on C.S. Lewis before you form an opinion.

Which is why I'm posting in hopes to hearing opinions about the movie/book.

Since no one bothered to tell me to read the book some 30 years ago I really don't have the desire to read them now.

Then...

You can put the whole religious aspect of it totally aside and I think you would still enjoy the story.

"Narnia" is a Christian allegory, but it's so gentle that even in fourth grade when I first learned that it's a Christian allegory, I didn't really care because it's a good story.

I think they're trying to fire up the church audience that made Passion of the Christ such a hit. But I strongly doubt that the film will trigger mass conversions.

Anything can be a Christian allegory if you want it to be. The Bible's a big book with a lot of stories, and you can loosely relate most stories to something, somewhere in the Bible.

Her teacher promised to take them if everyone in the class read at least one book in the series. Of the 26 kids in her class 24 ended up reading the whole series, and the two that didn't finish it all have most of them done and are still working on it. My daughter had a bit of an advantage though; I bought her the boxed set last year, so she'd already read most of it.

It's not just fundies...it's a good story, so lots of kids want to see it.

I read them multiple times as a youngster and never really got the "allegory" part of them. I appreciated them for what they were to a tweener--a good fantasy. But then, I was already hooked on fantasy and SF.

I never did read them...

If there is, then why do they hate Harry Potter so much?

pretty much constitutes magic.

Like I said...I never did read the books. :shrug:

very powerful.

I loved them when I was a kid. It bothers me that people think they are the purview of the fundies, because I saw them as very anti-authority at the time. I am very interested to see how the movies are.

And would most probably be very displeased they were attempting to coop his wonderful book. He was an Anglo-Catholic, btw.

It's not like consistency is the fundies strong suit. Come to think of it, with the exception of bigotry and hate, they really don't have a strong suit.

The series has some Christian symbolism, so the fundies are going crazy trying to make them "their own." I read on here, however, that C.S. Lewis was a pretty tolerant Xian and no sort of fundy. The fundies are probably just jumping the gun in their search for another Passion of the Christ.

It's kind of odd that they are embracing a fantasy series, though, considering the outrage about Harry Potter in many circles. Of course, there seem to be distinct breeds of fundies. My aunt goes to a church where they don't care what you wear and try to make their sermons into big productions, yet they have problems with fantasy literature, don't celebrate Halloween, and preach Republican politics, while I have a fundy friend who goes to a "fellowship" (they focus on it being a small gathering of believers, and don't call it church) where they have no problem with fantasy or Halloween, but are still pretty intolerant and touch on concepts like pre-destination. There is definitely a pretty wide spectrum of beliefs among fundamentalist Xianity.

They will likely be disappointed if they're looking for a lot of religious references in the movie if they're anything like the books. I've read one in the series, the first one- The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe, and didn't pick up on any religious symbolism. Of course, I was seven at the time, and had never been to church regularly, but still... I doubt the movie will be sending out any particularly strong Xian message.

the Christian allegory was very minor, I had no clue when I first read them at age 10. Just a good vs evil story. I hope the fundies dont ruin what is a good story by pushing the allegory part of it.

but that's not a bad thing. CS lewis was a brilliant writer/thinker. And he was a good person who emphasized God's love and the actual teachings of Christ. The stories are also very good and can be enjoyed by people who aren't christian (heck most people don't even notice the christian symbols in the book).

I'm not sure about the movie, Aslan looks a bit too CGI for my tastes, but I love the books.

Aslan the hero lion is Christ. C.S. Lewis became a devout Christian and wrote books about his belief. Narnia is a mix of Lewis's faith, the stories he told his younger brother, and a fantasy/adventure for kids.

The Christian angle is pretty damn subtle. Unless someone told you, it'd be hard to figure out. The closest it comes to religion is the boy heroes are referred to as "sons of Adam" and the girl heroes as "daughters of Eve". Otherwise it's about strength, courage, and trying to do the right thing. (Also giving into temptation and how that only causes problems.) Not bad lessons for anyone and hardly fundie.

(By the way, I agree with you on Rupert Everett.)

Khash.

For anyone interested, here's a good recent New Yorker article on Lewis, the Narnia books and Christianity:

http://www.newyorker.com/critics/content/articles/051121crat_atlarge

Very, very short. Just a paragraph about the two wardrobes that are now in museums. The one Lewis described as The Wardrobe in the Narnia books. And the one he and his brother would hide in while he told his brother fantastic tales. Kinda sweet, really.

When I think of him sitting in a wardrobe telling his little brother wild, wonderful stories in the dark .... it becomes clear why he wrote the Narnia books.

Khash.

An old Oxford tradition claims that Bertrand Russell, on being asked why his concerns had turned so dramatically away from academic philosophy, replied, with great dignity, “Because I discovered fucking.” So did Lewis, only he was older.

I read them.

like you say, "Not bad lessons for anyone and hardly fundie."

Lewis was too smart to be a fundie. ;)

He regained his Christian faith in the 30's, partially due to Tolkien's influence. By heritage a Protestant from the North of Ireland, he could not go all the way to Rome--but would be considered a "High Church" Anglican. He soon began writing books "explaining" Christianity--while JRRT toiled away at his endless Hobbit sequel.

I read the Narnia books as an adult--perhaps too late in life. (I preferred his Space Trilogy.) They contain some Christian allegory, but they also show Lewis's Classical Education. (He was one of that generation who went to the Trenches equipped with a knowledge of Greek & Latin.)

The movie is being marketed to religious groups. Some of the more Fundamentalist ones may be surprised! Alas--some kids might hate the movie (or books) because "It's Good For You!"

like The Wizard of Oz and LOTR.

As for reading the CON series, I suggest you clear your mind of all pre-conceived notions, Christian and otherwise.

As the article in USA Today said: read the lines first BEFORE reading between the lines.

Link:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2005-12-02-narnia-main_x.htm

(snip)
The book has long charmed children of any or no religion. The movie is, in many ways, faithful to the book — and faithful to the faithful — without sounding the horn of religious orthodoxy.

Johnson says you will find Christian symbolism in the movie only if you found it in the book. That's fair enough, though you will find it if you look closely — or are told to.
(snip)
The book is no staid Sunday school lesson: It is a rousing adventure tale that stands on its own, with echoes of larger themes that reverberate in young minds even when children are unsure of the source of the echoes.

'Don't go explaining it'

"Let story be story. Don't go explaining it," says Peter J. Schakel, author of The Way into Narnia and a professor of English at Hope College in Holland, Mich. "Don't ask kids, 'Does this remind you of something? Do you find something deeper here?' Let them discover it on their own, if they ever do."

Bruce Edwards, a professor of English at Bowling Green (Ohio) University, says, "With Lewis, the story is the thing. You ought to read the lines first. Then you can read between them."
(snip)

:smoke:

Rupert Everett, yeah. I'm looking forward to seeing Tilda Swinton as the White Witch. From the rumors I've read, she gives movie villiany a whole new aspect. Wouldn't be surprised to hear her discuss this on Charlie Rose's show late night on PBS.

:smoke:

I just thought they were fantasy. The Christian allegory had to be pointed out to me.

I wouldn't call C.S. Lewis a Christian fundamentalist by any stretch either. Although we was devout, I doubt he'd be a member of The 700 Club today.

I just don't want to sit in a movie theater filled with a bunch of fundies.

because Lewis was Catholic and their families did not agree w/ the faith. Odd that they are all now jumping on the bandwagon.

the world would be a better place.

I hate him and I hate his books.

All one has to do is read his work: most of the strongest, bravest, most loyal and moral characters are females, except for Jadis.

I totally don't get that from his work, especially not Narnia. The girls are often warriors - usually archers - and some of the female characters are very powerful, much more so than Tolkien's idealized females in LOTR. Yes, there's sexism inherent in it, but he was very much a product of his time and culture. I can't read A Horse and His Boy without cringing a little at the outdated racial stereotypes in it, but taken in context, it's still a good story.

I love her character. (and Hinn's) Along with Jill in "The Silver Chair."

The unsaved Susan --'She always was a jolly sight too keen on being grown up.' Being female seems to be OK only if you are never a sexual adult. Sort of like people who would like kittens and puppies better if they didn't grow up to become adult cats and dogs with sex lives.

A statement that while he may disagree personally with the practice of homosexuals, he doesn't feel the need to have legislation against it?

I see that as way more tolerant than what is currently going on in our own country.

His brother "Warnie" was thought to be gay, which makes "Jack's" opinions on this interesting....

But, you know, most of the supposedly Christian things are archetypes common to a lot of other sets of beliefs.

Hey, Lynn

(I think this is the first time I've ever directly responded to one of your posts... do I get to sit in one of the cool seats, now? :woohoo: )

I decided to respond to this before reading any of the other responses, so you may get some overlap...

Lewis is considered to be one of the most prolific Christian apologists of the 20th century. But a fundie? Hardly. He had some pretty harsh things to say about the free-market economy and it's driving forces- greed and gluttony; things that would make a fundies head pop like the cork from a bottle of cheap champaign. :evilgrin:

His opinions and views of tolerance of other religions would be considered anathema to the Falwell groupies. And his writings on charity (very good, very long-- will post two specific books of his that dwell on the above topics if you're interested) entail waaay too much work for the Tammy Faye-lights to ever consider.

No... I think Lewis is what most agnostics and atheists would prefer all Christians to be-- quiet and unassuming. No advertising of the faith other than through works and deeds. No mega-churches, no involvement in politics (other than on the personal level). I firmly believe that Lewis would be shunned by the GOP churches that dot the world and he would be ridiculed by Limbaugh, et. al. were he in the here and now.

Walden Media is producing the film (putting the money up front prior to revenues). And they have had pretty good control over content of the film.

On the other hand... there's the marketing campaign, handled by Disney. This is, I think where the fundy campaign is most effective. They're (Disney) looking to capitalize on the same success that "Passion of Christ" affected. Promoting the film during televised church services at commercial breaks, promoting it *at* church services, advertising the allegory in the books and downplaying particular similarities to the the Potter books.

This is an advertising blitz aimed directly at the fundy audience to get them to come in, *in addition to* the movie goers who would see it anyway. More audience= more $. That's all it is... well, that and the fundy audiences aren't aware that they're simply being played for saps on this one.


Yes. The Narnia books are allegorical. But that meant nothing to a certain wide-eyed and naive seven year old many years ago who knew nothing other than the stories took him to places he'd never knew could exist. The books stand as a great story, in and of themselves regardless of the allegory. Much like Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, there is an independent story which is absolutely riveting.

For my part, I have mixed feelings about this movie being made. On one hand, I'm looking foreword to seeing it-- the acting, the directing, how faithful the adaptation is, etc. On the other hand, the other day I became aware that McDonald's will be putting Narnia toys in the Happy Meals... in effect, commercializing my fondest childhood memories. Selfish of me, I know. But still..

If you liked Lord of the Rings or the Potter movies, see this one. See it for what is is... a movie.


Now for some fun...

Two of Lewis' books, Mere Christianity and The Problem of Pain are some pretty good reading material if you want to make a fundy's head pop. They are *not* books that either preach to or try to convert the reader. For all intents and purposes, they simply explain why an educated atheist who saw Christianity as one big inconsistency himself became Christian, his thought process during the conversion and the problems he see's with it today ("today" actually being in the 1940's and 50's). He delves deep into the history of "why does man keep inventing religions, why does he seemingly need them to live and why is Christianity (and Judaism and Muslim) different?"

He indicts many of the modern fundy's by popping their sacred cows of wealth and nationalism. I'm not suggesting these books to convert you, by any means, I'm suggesting them because the results of your reading them followed with an encounter w/ a fundy-freeper would be some seriously entertaining posts for us to read if you get around to.

Anyway... that's way to much stuff I posted, some on and some off topic, but that's why I rarely post... the stuff I read is a lot better than the stuff I post.

Have a great day
(and I'm still awestruck that I'm replying to a post made by the Great LynnSin!)

:hi:

Huh, thought the fundies were boycotting Disney for "gay days." Go figure.

you liked the books, eh? :)

thing until I was a little older (I first read the books when I was about 6 or so)
They are not overtly religious or Christian, but since they were written by a respected Christian author, I am sure the fundies find some use for them.
I am just excited to see the movie; I loved the books and re-read them often.
I do find it somewhat surprising that the fundies have grabbed onto this so strongly, given the level of 'magic' in the books (and dragons, and talking mice, and whatnot and all...)

Great reading, and looks like a great movie....

I guess you could get some "religious" significance of it, but as for the fundies, sounds a little hypocritical to me...thought they didn't like movies with witches in them.

Can see the good in Lewis, but not in Rowling. Closed-minded, ignorant.

They note book said that it promoted toteism. They also banned lillies in the field because they had a single man living with woman.

forces of darkness, forces of light, the lion of judah, evil tyrant; it is all from rowling to narnia, for that matter, a grand mish-mash of events is my read. the books are cool.

i see a disproportionate concern for as-to-whether it is a 'fundie project' and such. preferring h. potter for what? it's proximity to flying brooms, magic toads, the conjure of dark forces, tea leaves & 'disruptors'; when we all know full-well that disruptor's are TS'd around here so go figure :shrug:

unless & until they break out the jesus juice, my council is always reason, freedom & liberty here B-)

I read all 7 books, and they were probably to this day my favorite books to read in my entire life. I got so into those, and I constantly wish I could read them again for the first time.

out of Clive Staples Lewis because he was such an excellent scholar of medieval and renaissance lit and could do religious apologetics in such a civilized manner. AND write good SF and fantasy too. And he died the day JFK was assassinated and my heart was doubly wounded.

i read them when i was younger, before i knew they were allegories, and watched the pbs miniseries constantly. theres nothing wrong with some basic christian allegory (see: the matrix). it's not fundie or anything, it just speaks of the core beliefs.

if you don't like it, that's cool, but don't not-like it just because christians do

Sure, there are real Christian themes at work, but hardly a "fundamentalist" series.

I noticed a few years ago the publisher is now putting the Narnia books in chronological order which I think is terrible! These books should be read in the order they were written/published -- you will enjoy them more, and enjoy more the little "surprises" of finding out how certain things happened (like how a street lamp got in the middle of a forest).

I read these when I was a teen and enjoyed them very much. I could see the allegorical stuff, but that will go over most kid's heads, and who cares anyway? They weren't written with conversion in mind.

I'm looking forward to taking my 8 year old grandson to the movie next weekend.

Actually the only book that was written out of order is "The Magicians Nephew". Chronologically this should be the first book, as it tells how Narnia was created, and how sin was introduced. And yes, how the lamppost got in the middle of the forest.

I actually think it works better to read TMN first.

The rest of the series was all written in order, although I'm not sure about "A Horse and His Boy". Although that one doesn't really fit the rest of the series in many, many ways, so it doesn't really matter.

So, it's set DURING the last part of TLTWATW, before the Pevensies stumble back through the wardrobe to Professor Kirke's house.

...but it doesn't really fit with the rest of the Narnia tales. All the other stories are about English children who are magically transported to Narnia, where they then fullfill some higher purpose before being magically transported back to England by Aslan. In THAHB the Pevensies play only a small part in the story, it's really about two children and two talking horses, all native to Narnia. It's an aside, not an act.

It's actually the first Narnia book I read as a child.

...in the "Tashlan" heresy. Fundie heads will explode.

Out of their whole nation, whereas a many Narnians (white Christians) were.

I am no longer able to look at witches depicted as villains without felling a surge of rage at the author.

Yeah, maybe it's a great book blah blah blah he's not a fundie blah blah blah just enjoy the story blah blah blah.

Doesn't matter. I'll pass.

other people use magic and they're not evil

and the Narnia books damn near converted me. The allegory isn't so heavy-handed that kids still can't read the story with great enjoyment, but the allegory IS there - the sacrifice and resurrection of the Lion damn near did me in. (I'm always more sentimental about animals than people.) The Last Battle gets too heavy-handed for me, and A Horse and His Boy is very dated, speaking in terms of racial stereotypes, but they're still good stories. (The Last Battle is kind of an allegory of the book of Revelation - A Horse and His Boy doesn't really fit in the allegorical scheme that I can see.)

Liam Neeson is more my type than Rupert Everett -- always have a weakness for those big burly guys, and always have a soft spot for the Lion.

Isnt it stated somewhere that GW Bush thinks he is ASLAN?

These were the best books I have read, when I was a kid
I have read them 7times over (Next to Sub books) they are the best.

He is not a fundie, and they are making more out of this
then needs to be

woohoo!