Life is TOUGH, so raise your kids to be TOUGH.

Don't raise them in some kind of huggy, touchy, feely fantasy world. Kick'em around a bit because that's what life is like and they need to be prepared.

Get'em as hard, bitter, jaded and cynical as you can by the time they're 8. After all, look at the grown-ups you know and see who's the happiest. The hard, bitter, jaded, cynical ones, right?

right? right?







Sorry, just thinking aloud about some of the fathers I've known.

I remember vividly when I was in about 5th grade, staying over at a friends house whose dad was a very conservative FBI agent whose wife had just divorced him. He was a lot like Col. Fitts in American Beauty (only I don't think he was gay - but he sure liked the old war movies). Very severe, drab, but very neat house, like an artifact from the early 60's (this was the late 70s)...

One night I stayed over and we had dinner - the usual stuff they would eat - meatloaf & mac & cheese - and I'll never forget that when my friend made an innocent little joke at the dinner table, his dad bellowed at him "Shut the hell up you little bastard! You think you know everything, you little smart-ass!"

It wasn't that I ever saw his dad beat on him or anything. I was too young to pry, but I do remember how terrified he seemed when he accidentally tore their movie screen with a pointer, like he LITERALLY thought his dad would kill him.

I don't know what became of that kid, our interests diverged and we stopped hanging out together by high school, but I hope he made it out okay.

The next day when I got home, I was REALLY relieved to be back with my non-god-fearing, easygoing parents. We had our problems in our family, too, but I don't think I ever had that look in my eyes when I broke something of my dad's.

Johnny Cash spelled it all out :)

your parents should be a little softer.

A parent's job isn't to raise children, it's to raise future adults. Equip them accordingly and let them go.

I grew up with a "mean" Dad. I know what fear and terror are from the vantage point of a young child.
The only friend I ever had over said it was the only house she felt comfortable going to because my Dad yelled at her like her Dad did.
Even in that environment, you don't always end up tough...but you do end up with a perspective on life that isn't ALL bad.
With every rain, there is a rainbow.
We are adults longer than we are children. If you seek to blame everyone for "the way you are", you are simply using it as a crutch to keep from changing it yourself.

I'll call him Billy. Bill was a scrapper..always climbing to the highest branches of the biggest tree...the last one to go home at night...constantly building forts.

We knew his step daddy beat him pretty hard and with a belt. (reported from our kids) and we were always very alert and just waiting to make that call to child services. I once called and asked whether our kids' word was enough to make a report and it wasn't. Bill's stepdad was constantly angry at the kid, blamed him for everything.

Our kids stayed friends through adolescence and beyond. Bill was well known locally as a singer in a band and had quite a following. But he wasn't a happy person. He loved my kids because they represented safety and childhood to him, but we all knew he was headed for trouble. He hit the streets and we tried to find him. We did a few times..he'd come home to us, but he'd go back out again.

It was no surprise to hear that he tore into a bridge on I-10. There was no way it was an accident. He had to thread a needle between the guard rail to hit it and there were no skid marks.

When we went to the funeral, the stepdad was there. And you know what? He was still pissed! Said he would never forgive Bill for doing that to the family.

I am a quiet person but it just bubbled out. I took the man's hand and squeezed it sympathetically and said "oh do try to let go of the anger, Bob. I'm sure Billy has forgiven YOU for the all the times you beat the life out of him when he was a child."

It felt good.

ass toward Billy. I'm glad you said that to him - he's a jerk.

kick-a$$-bob had kids as old as yours. :o

...but sometimes there are hurts that leave them completely screwed up in one area or another, whether it be sex or just being able to trust others.

We all have to work through the crap we went through as kids, but the argument that being mean to kids makes them stronger is 100% BS, IMO.

I agree with that as well.
Some of us mask those faults pretty well though...

she's a nanny for a wealthy family. they're very uptight, corporate a-types who seem to have no problem putting job and career above their kids. (although they are somewhat prog politically) they have a suburban with car seats that my wife drives to pick up kids. today the suburban is in the shop so instead of picking them up she delivered a lunch to the youngest who is staying at school until dad picks them up in the repaired suburban because my wife doesn't have car seats.

anyway, about an hour ago my wife gets a call from the school asking when the truck will be repaired and the kid will be picked up? my wife related that the kids dad is handling all that and they'd have to get in touch with him.

the woman from the school says to my wife that its not necessary to bother the father, but if its going to be more than an hour maybe my wife could have the father call and speak to his daughter on the phone so he could reassure her that everything was alright and that she hadn't been abandoned. my wife, being concerned asks if the kid is okay. the school tells her everything is fine and the daughter hasn't said anything, but after an hour she might feel traumatized and hearing from dad that everything was fine would be very stabilizing and comforting and would reinforce that their family life was still in order....after an hour, at her school, with her regular teacher.

on edit: school is still in session. the kid is pre-k and does half days. i didn't want to give the impression that the kid is sitting in an empty school with a teacher who wants to go home. she is in an after care section that is not her usual schedule, but still the same faces/places.

"on edit: school is still in session. the kid is pre-k and does half days. i didn't want to give the impression that the kid is sitting in an empty school with a teacher who wants to go home. she is in an after care section that is not her usual schedule, but still the same faces/places."


Yes, but as a parent of a Kinder kid, I think the concern on the part of the school is warranted. Kids at that age are very comforted by routine and are quick to feel uneasy when that's disrupted.


Not that this is some huge trauma on this kid, but it's good to make them feel reassured until dad gets there.

This post starts off rather judgmentally against the parents, for what reason I'm not sure - an awful lot of parents are like this. As long as they create a loving environment for the kids is the main thing.

How nice it must be to be able to afford a NANNY...

the kid couldn't care less. i thought it was funny that the school thought enough to call the nanny about potential trauma, but not enough to follow up with a second call to dad.

i also didn't mention that dad's bmw, with a car seat, is in hte garage. he told my wife, who is a very safe and capable driver, that "you wouldn't want to drive that".(translation: i don't want you to drive it) he trusts her to drive his suburban and all his kids around, but not enough to drive his bmw.

this family is very corporate, and has "outsourced" raising their kids to my wife and some others. they give all the appearances of being concerned, nurturing parents, but do very little with their own kids from monday to friday and they make more than enough money that one of them could be a full time parent. they have very strict standards of how the schools and caretakers treat the kids, but don't act to those standards when they actually deal with the children, themselves.

...there was a time when I was an hour late and my kids were just fine.

There was another time when I was 20 minutes late, but all the other kids had gone and my 7 year old was in tears when I got there, even though I had called the school that I would be late. He was sure that I'd forgotten about him for some reason.


Kids are funny. One day this way, and another day the other way.

I have heard several RW radio shows get on the topic of child rearing and inveriably it turns into stories gleeful stories about how much their fathers beat them when they were kids. My RW boss is the same he loves to tell about how much his father used to punch him in the face and so forth. It is an amazing thing to witness.

but I've seen what happens when someone constantly beats his dog and it's not pretty. You wind up with a dog that is constantly cowering.

Besides, discipline can't really be enforced from the outside, it has to come from within. I know I was much more motivated to win praise from my parents than simply avoid punishment.

"but I've seen what happens when someone constantly beats his dog and it's not pretty. You wind up with a dog that is constantly cowering. "

Either that, or you end up with a mean dog that's always snarling and snapping.

The worst (people and dogs) are the ones that have just been completely deprived of love and affection.

sad.