Question for Gay/Lesbian DU'ers

Watching Will and Grace last night, after about the 50th gay stereotype, I found myself wondering if those stereotypes are offensive to any in the G/L community.

I don't know...maybe I'm asking "permission" to laugh at some of the stuff!

I laugh at stereotypes of other genders, etc., if it's funny. I felt really guilty about laughing at "Bringing Down the House," until I read an interview with Queen Latifah, which made me feel better.

To an extent, it's not what you say, it's how you say it... and "Will and Grace" is technically a "gay show." Now, if it was a Klan meeting....

but after they milked one tired stereotype after another, I got tired of it and stopped watching. You have my permission to laugh, but I'm suffering from faggot fatigue.

:hug:

:loveya:

As for being offensive, I find the writing offensive and the stereotypes bizarre. It can be humorous, but it's a waste of time for me.

Frankly... I find the show more offensive to women than to gay people. Grace's obsession with being a bride is nauseating.

Grace is... Grace. She's not reflective of all women, or even all Jewish women. She's Grace, and she's nuts.

As for stereotypes, I think the show does what "All In the Family" did — drags them out and shows us how stupid they are.

It's all a matter of perspective.

On edit: Maybe I shouldn't have posted this, since I'm not gay, and there're likely elements of this that I can't understand.

biggest dream in life seems to be to be a bride. Just odd to me, and my point was that that is more offensive than the gay stereotypes on the show, not that it is necessary that offensive.

A basic theme of just about every sitcom ever made. It gives the writers room to play with jokes. The greater the contrast, the greater the potential for laughs.

Most sitcoms play off human foibles. If Grace were free-spirited, content, comfortable in her skin, etc., it just wouldn't be as funny. And I think it's damned funny.

However, I do see a potential for offensiveness — though, like I said, it's likely that I can't see the offenses themselves, as I lack the perspective.

A lot of people thought "Married... With Children" crossed several lines, too. I could understand that, but it also made me laugh my ass off.

so I was responding at that level. Maybe it's just because there is NO other portrayal of gay characters (as central to the theme of the show) on regular TV? That's offensive all by itself. This show? meh... I really haven't given it much thought past what I posted.

...doing an (what I would consider) admirable job of portraying a gay teenaged boy just coming out to his family. You can catch it tonight on NOG.

But I always find myself laughing at that show. It's just so silly.

to be funny. And ridiculously silly is, for some reason, funny. I LMAO at Karen & Jack.

She totally rocks. She's really the reason I watch that show. She is just great. As far as the sterotypes, yeah the show doesn't really accurately portrays gay lifestyles, relationships, etc. but it's just a fucking sitcom. So I just watch and laugh.

And it is a messed up world, but a freakin' funny one!!!

reason it cracks me up soooo much. It should be called Karen & Jack b/c they make the show!!

It has cardboard characters, absolutely no relevance to real life, and it's utterly, completely silly.

Someday, television will portray us as real people. Someday.

:hi:

I mean, what else is there...or was there? "Queer as Folk"? I mean, PLEASE. :-)

:hi:

"slaps hand on forehead" Now, how COULD I have forgotten that paean to shopping, superficiality, more shopping, bitchy remarks, and more shopping? :-)

I don't get that channel but heard it was good

I really liked the gay relationship between Keith and David on Six Feet Under. I have read that their portrayal of a gay "marriage" (not legal until the post show shorts) really changed some perspectives on that issue. I have no idea HOW anyone would know that short of a poll or survey or something.

But that was just as unrealistic as "Will and Grace". Apparently, all gay men (according to the show) spend a lot of time in clubs, work out religiously, and are pretty much drop dead gorgeous. I wearied of "QAF" after a few seasons. Granted, they did push the envelope in showing sex between men, but that was pretty much it, IMO. That, in of itself, is not realistically portraying gay men.

amazing they even have jobs... do they? I agree with you on QAF... so over the top that it probably did worse for gay stereotypes (of men) than before it ever aired. Didn't do much better for the few women it portrayed either.

but as they say - it's not TV...its HBO

a gay relationship realistically.

Like those airheads on Sex and the City, but Jack is a howl.

:rofl: They are so bad!!

But I don't think it portrays gays/lesbians in the most positive light. Nor women.
But I do think it's funny on a purely enertaining level.

but I can say that I do know some gay guys who really act like that. They love the show (as do I) and relate to it (somewhat). But everyone is so different. :shrug:

...with another man yet???

I've seen maybe 5 episodes and never once have I seen Will in an intimate position with a man.

I know that there have obviously been insinuations. And I haven't watched the past 2 seasons, but he had a serious (and cute) boyfriend, but I don't know if they showed anything! :shrug:

Which is a shame. If they did they may not the crossover appeal that they had during the peak of the show. In a sense, they have "sold out" by not showing Will in bed or in a meaningful relationship at all. But again, I have looked past those qualities and just continue to laugh at it.

Will is basically an unlikeable person. What other explanation can you come up with to rationalize the fact that a hot, single lawyer in Manhattan has trouble finding men? :-)

I don't find Will nor Eric McCormack attractive at all. Will has a lot of hang ups so I can see why he doesn't have any dates.

They were in the crowd of Seriously White People watching the Today show and Jack was trying to get face time with Roker (?) to plead for NBC to show two gay guys kissing on some show. It was a parody-within-a-parody. He said something like "We've never seen two gay men kiss on television," and Jack said, "Until now," and hauled off and bussed him.

i just love the way that information always accompanies anything related to eric mccormack... makes the public -less nervous-

It's disgusting. Yet again, a hetero actor playing gay has to trump up that ol' heterosexuality in every damn interview he does. If Eric McCormick or any other hetero actor is so jittery about the gay thing, then maybe he shouldn't have taken the role in the first place. That gets so freaking tiresome.

that's how i feel about that

I can't remember the actor's name, but he was never able to get a mainstream role (that I know of) after playing that character. Shame really. He was cute.

Given that example, I can't really blame Eric for talking up the family.

Will be interesting to see what happens with Heath Ledger and Jake Gyllenhaal's careers after Brokenback Mountain comes out.

Edit: Hah! Found him. His name is Jack Coleman

I CAN speak as a person who enjoys a good tv show. What really offends me is how lame the show is. Amusing sometimes, sure, but so very lame.

Dave Chappelle axed a season 1 skit that played into stereotypes; including gay stereotypes. I still think it's funny as hell.

The Ambiguously Gay Duo on SNL I always found to be funny.

I generally am not fond of stereotypes, unless I think it's really sharply written.

when they relaced laughs with "Big Name" guest stars. I'm not offended by stereotypes if it's at least funny without being mean spirited.

The stereotypes are sometimes offensive.... doesn't make it less funny.

But it's not one of my favourite shows. Others have done gay/lesbian characters better. i.e. Liz in Nip/Tuck - although her character is often funny, you also get the sense that she's a real person with real feelings. Still funny, though. Like when Christian told her "Liz, don't take this wrong, but you're a better man than I am." And she replied " Damn straight, I am!" Funny and playing on the stereotype of lesbians as overly masculine, but also touching in a way in the admission that he found her admirable.

I just wish we were more often portrayed as fully formed people rather than stereotypes. And that's happening and so the stereotypes become less hurtful and more funny. So laugh if you wanna.

Khash.

... the inaccurate depiction of transgenders on network TV, from Jerry Springer to some episodes of Ally McBeal (yes, despite my nickname, I have issues with that show).

On Ally, Wilson Cruz (a gay man IRL) played a tranny hooker who Ally's lawfirm tried to "save" into the corporate world - to no avail, as she ends up dead by some john at the end of the episode. I discussed this episode with Cruz himself, who asked for a more dignified role - but couldn't get it. :(

On a later Ally episode, Lisa Edelstein (a non-transgender woman) played a pre-op tranny. The whole deal was handled in a very offensive way, as many of Ally's coworkers treated her as a man in drag, and was quite rude to her, publicly talking about her anatomy and all. The best thing to do would've been to be hush-hush about it, make the character a lesbian, and have her hit it off with Ally (we all know Ally was a closet lesbian anyway).

And speaking of trannies on TV, Ann Coultergeist must never be allowed to go on network or cable TV, ever again.

Compared to that, Will & Grace is quite tame, actually.

besides offensive gay stereotypes? But then, straight people don't fare so well on TV either, so go ahead and laugh.

Compared to which a sit-com using stereotypes is meaningless. I can't be bothered to get worked up about minor issues when there are major ones.

Besides, the whole purpose of sit-coms is to play with stereotypes - thus gay character=gay stereotypes. That's one reason that I don't watch many.

If you laugh at the "dumb man who only likes power-tools" stereotype, the "irrational woman who freak out about everything" stereotype &c. then why not the "gay man who lives for the gym" stereotype? I really don't mind myself, and it bothers me not one jot.

here. Always interesting to me when someone asks a provocative question and then doesn't respond to much. Seems you have a gay theme going today...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=4420070&mesg_id=4420703

like the show, but that episode was hysterical...it was more so because of their "real time" reactions.