Hymen surgery- NOT A JOKE!

(This is from salon.com)

First of all I am very sorry if this is in the wrong place.

"Have you ever felt not so fresh? Somewhat less than pure? Used up, alone on cold winter nights, pining for your long lost innocence?

We thought so! Because according to the Wall Street Journal, many American women just like you are now clamoring to have their innocence surgically restored. Well, not exactly their innocence -- just their hymens, which, as anyone with access to Google can tell you, is about as reliable an indicator of virginity as a signed and notarized abstinence pledge. That is, not very reliable: About.com's honeymoon guide counsels that tampons and even "overzealous douching" can wreck the hymen of a virgin.

Still, as the Journal points out, some men -- and some conservative, not to say backward, cultures -- still consider an intact hymen the best proof of a woman's virtue. And for the women who'd like to please these men, now there's hymenoplasty, or, as the kids are calling it, "revirgination." In this costly surgical procedure a plastic surgeon "uses dissolvable stitches to reconnect the skin membrane that once partially covered the opening to the vagina," thereby making a girl who has been around the block a few times look like she has never even been out the house. "

Link: http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/

This is kind of funny. Apparently some people have money to BURN and can spend it on surgery for their vaginas (vaginii?) Oh the silliness.

heh

:spray:

:evilgrin:

Who cares about NECESSARY medical care for the masses! There are hymens to restore!

Are people expecting the theocracy will start inspecting sometime soon?

...is scum and not worth my time.

...experience is rarely a bad thing...

If you have "issues" with one's state of virginity--you have hangups, plan and simple.

Sex is supposed to be fun. Most things (sex included) are more fun when you know what you're doing. By definition, virgins don't know what they're doing...

...I guess I'm missing something...

:shrug:

which is associated with virginity...

Long story...check out your history.

This is not meant as a bash...just a head's up kind of thing.

If I wanted to own something to simply have sex with, there's no shortage of inflatable options (that don't talk back).

I just can't understand why anybody who's actually HAD sex would strive to find a partner with zero experience.

the repub party with sex workers? You think it would change their entire outlook?

Make peace, not war!

And, if you had large "lots of land" the whole virginity thing starts to "make sense" in a twisted sort of Machiavellian sort of way.

No offense intended on the check your history thing.

Personally, I think that if some of those uptight "I know what's best for EVERYBODY" idiots got really good sex once in a while, their whole outlook would change...at least about sex...

"I just can't understand why anybody who's actually HAD sex would strive to find a partner with zero experience."

Maybe self-loathing?

What judgment would you make regarding those who haven't had sex and who strive to find a partner with zero experience?

WindRavenX wrote:
"any man that cares that I am not a virgin when I met him...
...is scum and not worth my time."

self-loathing is unhealthy and NOT something that's going to be "cured" by hooking up with a virgin.

If somebody has no sexual experience of COURSE they have a "right" to find somebody else with no experience. It's still counterproductive on ANY level to judge a woman based on the state (intact or non-intact) of her hymen. That said, it's my personal belief that virginity is overrated. If I'd never played baseball but wanted to experience it, I wouldn't shun all experienced baseball players out of hand for the simple fact that they'd played the game.

...and I certainly wouldn't advocate pretending that you HADN'T ever played baseball just to gain the interest of somebody who was insecure enough to believe that mattered.

The implications of seeking out someone because you yourself are a virgin is very different from those who relish the idea of deflowering someone because of the power trip.

My SO had his V card before we starting seeing each other. It make no difference to me. I loved him. Whether or not he had experience was not even a concern.

But there are some men, and certainly some women, who insist on sleeping with "intact" partners for selfish and, imo, dangerous motives.

MercutioATC wrote:
"By definition, virgins don't know what they're doing..."

Virgins don't know what they're doing. Does that imply that those who aren't virgins do know what they're doing? Maybe there is an unsatisfied need for lessons and training from qualified instructors.

There are plenty of non-virgins that have no idea what they're doing (I know from experience).

Still, I think we can agree that your chances of finding somebody who knows what they're doing are greatly reduced if you limit your search to those who've never done it.

On edit: that's how it is naturally too

a virgin usually can use a tampon without disrupting the hymen, although I don't know if a surgically replaced one would hold as well as a natural one.

reduced to a body part - a passing, temporary body part for that matter.

:cry:

No offense to you is intended - this current fad is to what I'm replying.

I know what you mean.
Especially considering that having sex is not the only way the hymen can be broken. A lot of active girls break theirs long before puberty- gymnastics, horseback riding, biking, climbing trees, general running amok are often the cause. (Not to get too personal, but that's what happened to me).
It is sad.

Here's a link to a pic that pretty much...well, "a picture is worth a thousand words" and all

then I feel really sad :(
Anyone who cared that much about my virginity or lack thereof would have been tossed directly out the door and/or window.
Somehow I doubt, even if there was a way to physically tell if a guy was a virgin, that women would care as much. I'm not trying to be sexist, but it's just not something most of the women I know are concerned about.

I purposely "looked" for a boyfriend who had "some miles" on him. Who had some experience. I figured 2 things; 1) he'd already "sowed his wild oates and 2) he'd have something to offer as far as sex, i.e., he'd know "what women want"

Amazing, to me, that men/guys/boys (painting with broad brush for brevity's sake) would want someone they have to indoctrinate/teach/etc.

Must be that "fragile male ego" (more broad brush for same reason). Geez, guys, doesn't that stereotype of frailty bug you yet? (same broad brush for same reason).

I think a lot of it comes down to that.

Some men like virgins because he doesn't have to worry that she may compare him (perhaps unfavorably) to another lover. Some men just get this big ego trip that she was "saving herself" for him that he some how charmed her or won a prize and he gets to play the big man and teach her 'cos she doesn't know any better and she's just so cute and helpless. Macho b.s.

But, I like to think most men are reasonable about it. Some men actually prefer a more experienced woman. Before we met, very young, my husband was dating a virgin and told her to come back when she had more miles on her. Not the most mature way to handle it, but at least he recognized he wasn't prepared to help her through all of the consequences. I guess some women DO buy into the idea that virginity has meaning and get emotional when they lose it.

As for religion, I'm a little cynical. Too much misogyny is (falsely) attributed to a deity.

Girls have drilled into them from when they hit puberty "Losing your virginity is a HUGE deal and you will remember it forever and God help you if you do it too soon or with the wrong person" etc. etc.
Boys, however, have it a lot differently. A guy's virginity is something to lose quickly or to be ashamed of (or at least keep secret). A woman's virginity is something to guard and defend.
It's different for men and women, which it shouldn't be, but I don't know how we can change this perception.

I didn't know he was in need of an operation.

Get well soon, Hymen.

for the past forty years.

Of course, they didn't go to a doctor---they just had another woman do it.

.

Only $39.99??


Leave it to DU to have the Earl Scheib of hymens as a member...

as opposed to ___ ?

:shrug:

Although this operation sounds silly to most open-minded westerners, it can save the lives of women from different cultures. For example, if a woman from certain middle eastern regions was raped, it could lead to her being killed to restore her family's honor. Even in the best of circumstances, she would be considered "unmarriable". If she can find a way to have this surgery, it allows her a fresh start.

In general, I agree that the story is just one more example that women are often valued only for their parts. :(

"...according to the Wall Street Journal, many American women just like you are now clamoring to have their innocence surgically restored. Well, not exactly their innocence -- just their hymens..."

I'd say that this article specifically adresses the "silly" end of the spectrum...

yeah, lying to your partner.

It is why I am so disdainful of books like "The Rules" which try to tell women to become some one else to catch a man, or to be disingenuous.

The Arguments:

1) I'll just say right now that I'm not talking about women in cultures where lack of virginity is punishable by death or ruin.

2) What if a woman is raped? If she really feels she can be emotionally healed by that, I'm not going to judge her. But (and I'm not a psychologist) is denial really the best way to deal with that trauma? If in her heart she wants to be a virgin, I say she is, no surgery needed. But, if she finds intimacy with some one, I hope she trusts him/her enough to let that person help with the healing, and that means honesty.

3) What about being "born again"? I don't know a lot about it, but it's my understanding that woman has given her life to Jesus. So, in God's eyes, she has a sort of clean slate from that point forward. However, should she decide to marry, I can't imagine Jesus would be pleased by her lying to her husband about her past; that seems contrary to the idea of repentance. Perhaps a lie of omission is OK, but to deliberately go to great lengths to practice an elaborate deception? How Christian is that?

So, sisters, if you made a decision you regret now, too bad - live with it. You don't get a do-over to pretend it never happened.

And, men, get over it - we are not on this earth to be slaves to your pleasure. If you can't love us for who we are (lack of virginity or whatever) you can go jump in a lake.

I think the whole issue is ridiculous.

This is definitely a U.S. bred form of...misogyny

I first heard about this surgery several years ago, and the women who had it came to the US from middle eastern countries. The one story I remember clearly featured a young woman who had been raped by a town elder. Her aunts took her to the US for a supposedly well chaperoned vacation. The aunts (brave souls) arranged for the surgery to be performed while in NYC. The young woman was very much in love, but hadn't started planning a wedding because she knew when it was discovered she wasn't a virgin she would be cast out of her community. The cultural rule requiring purity extends to all classes. Wealthy women have received this surgery in the US and Europe for who knows how long.

It's easy for me to imagine women in the US being in danger if their virginity couldn't be proved. Not to sound crude, but I can see some redneck yahoo beating his new wife if she wasn't pure enough for his taste. It's obvious to anyone with basic knowledge of women's anatomy that the hymen rarely has any bearing on virginity, but until this is backward phase in our history is over, I want this available to keep women safe.

Wow, I'm really cynical tonight...

evangelicalism where female sexuality has become so stigmatized that some feel unpure and in need of rebirth. It's no different than never feeling satisfied with appearance; a rebirth every trip to the mirror.

Either way, even though in the U.S. its less tragic, its still sad.

this would sell well in cultures where lack of virginity can get you stoned to death??

I remember reading an autobiography of a woman who accompanied her husband for some work for several years in Iraq, I think. They attended the wedding of a friend's daughter, and the couple were dismissed to a tent. After a few minutes, the mother of the bride went in and proudly brought out a white sheet with a small stain of fresh blood on it, proof that her daughter had been a virgin.

of bride's mothers who gave their daughters a vial of blood to take with them into the chamber, "just in case."

The irony.

Did the WSJ article provide any "proof" that "many American women" are having this procedure? Or is this a 2005 version of those bullshit "trend" articles mentioned so often in Susan Faludi's Backlash?

A telling paragraph from the WSJ piece, via the Post Gazette

Hymenoplasty, a controversial medical procedure known mostly for its prevalence in the Middle East and Latin America, is becoming popular in the U.S. Although there are no hard data, the American Society of Plastic Surgeons says vaginal surgery, including hymenoplasty, is one of the industry's fastest-growing segments. Gynecologists are marketing hymenoplasty in magazines, local newspapers and online. They report business is booming.

Kind of like that supposed "man shortage" and "fertility crisis" crap they made up in the eighties...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05349/622923.stm

I believe every individual is entitled to make his or her own medical choices, life-saving or cosmetic, without interference from me or the government. :shrug:

..and just because someone gets it surgically replaced, doesn't mean it's 'resoring thier innocence.' They can't take away the experience with surgery.

:wtf:

I couldn't wait to get rid of that thing!

Never missed it!

no one with any sense, WOULD miss it. But who would want to go through THAT again?

The first time is NEVER cool, fun or the way you ideally hope it will be. Everyone I've ever talked to said it's yucky, fumbly, bad, awkward, etc. Sure, I've known people that have been with people that they cared for that first time, so it did have more meaning--but it was STILL awkward, fumbly,painful, etc.

:shrug:

a sense of humor about it, and my boyfriend had sought advice from his big sister, so we figured it out eventually, and I'm glad it wasn't a big deal.

LOL, the memories!

that he asked his sister's advice. :) Most guys would go to another guy, and get it all wrong! LOL! It sounds like he had a healthy opinion of women--so cool that a guy like that was your first.

But, as you said...the memories--too funny! I can now laugh at what I remember of my first encounter. I don't know if I forgot based on the fact that it was so dull--or if I blocked it out because of the trauma. LOL! Either way, probably best that way! hahahaha! :hi:

Why women would WANT some physical evidence of alleged purity just seems so bizarre to me.

I could see where this type of surgery could be useful as something that could help rape victims or something like that, however, but for born agian virgins or for a rich woman to use for an anniverary, that's just wrong.

how's it "just wrong"? Don't you agree that there's nothing wrong with people (regardless of gender) making their own medical decisions, cosmetic or life-saving, without interference from the public and/or government? :shrug:

No thanks. Honestly, it got beat up when I went horseback riding (which was often). Now that it is *ahem* gone, it's more comfortable. As is using a tampon, btw.



... was that tmi?

which I was thinking might not be a bad thing. The first time hurts like bleep and why should women go through that if they don't have to? After reading a bit further I found my original belief shattered. Couldn't ONCE there be a place in this world where women aren't mistreated?

Maybe someday it'll be a "necessary" gesture of God and culture to sew scrotum's to men's thighs. Gee :think: I wonder how long THAT practice would be considered "sacred"

Probably because the adult men couldn't take it.

or compassion, or kindness. You are only truly a good person if your hyman is intact before marriage. It's about time that this was addressed.

:-(

A rather common surgery among the Turkish minority over here. But it costs a lot less than the $1000 stated in the article (IIRC more like €400)

If we allow them to control the education agenda, all our kids will grow up just as stupid as they are--and when the inevitable pregnancies result, the poor kids will be forced to become parents.