Is it wrong to marry someone you love...but aren't "in love" with?

Okay, you guys are so good at relationship issues, so here's one I could use some help with.

What do you do when the person you are with is madly in love with you, and you love them too...but there's just that "tingly feeling" missing? You know, the anticipatory feeling in your stomach you get every time you are about to see them?

The person I am currently with is wonderful and crazy for me, and I know there isn't a thing in the world he wouldn't do for me. He has a great career that most men can only dream about with a high six-figure salary, is absolutely gorgeous physically, is funny, kind, attentive, sweet, loves his family, and most of all, loves me. We get along perfectly, have great conversations for hours, and the *cough* physical aspect of our relationship is good, too. On paper, he's absolutely everything a girl could ever want and hope for - except, there is something missing that I can't quite put my finger on.

He's asked me to marry him, but I am concerned that while I love him very much as a person, I am not sure that I am in love with him. He is a wonderful person and a good man. But, there is just some kind of chemistry missing for me. I know that if we got married, he would be a spectacular husband and father, and our life would be great...except, it wouldn't be exceptional.

Is it wrong to marry someone you love, but aren't madly in love with? Is it wrong to marry someone who will give you a wonderful life, but doesn't also give you that tingly feeling inside? Am I expecting something that you only see in the movies, that never really happens in real life?

Then again, life is short.

If you think you can do better, hold out, or don't get married at all. One the one hand, the Buddha would tell me that all desire leads to suffering. On the other hand, you only have one life, why settle?

So maybe I am just expecting too much. In terms of doing "better" I seriously doubt it. He's perfect in every way except that I just don't feel much of a spark between us.

If your deal-breaker is a "spark" then perhaps it'd be best to let this guy go and find someone new to love. If you think you might develop said spark, or you think he'll let you make spark-finding arrangements later, then the rest of the deal certainly looks good.

And, guess what? It's not you. It's not this guy. And best of all: It's not me.

If that spark is reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally oh-so-important, somebody has a case of obsession.

Having learned long ago that the spark is fleeting, emotional love is far more endearing... For an Aspie, I am a total oxymoron. I can't even get past a first date and we have people who have fuckin' EVERYTHING and want the one piece that is so frigging rate in the first place, and if they do find it chances are it's attached to a real jerkwad...

HUMANS, ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm responsible for my own spark.

And sometimes I electrocute myself!

:rofl:

you have posted some pretty weird shit in the past - and I've always enjoyed reading what you have to say.

But this post is pure genius. You've captured it entirely. :hug:

Well said, my friend. Well said indeed.

It's the porridge and bed of the little bear, not too hot and not too cold, not too small and not too large, called Love.

Trust your instincts.

Didn't somebody here provided a link to a study-while people in love have some sort of hormones elevated, those high levels are gone within a year. With that in mind, any sparks are going to be gone in a year.

I'm too tired to find the article. I believe in was on BBC.com

}(

I'm picky and have yet to find a man that truly fits the bill.

I think it depends.If the tingly feeling you're missing is sexual attraction, then it may not be fair to marry him. If you mean something else, then it may be okay.

In terms of sexual attraction, that is definitely there. I just don't feel much of a spark between us...everything is just sort of...perfectly boring.

Then again, the few people I've ever felt that intense chemistry with or felt that "spark" between us, ended up being really, really bad for me.

But is what you are missing some kind of drama that made life exciting for you in the past?

And I fear you may be right. Because of his job, he has the opportunity to be with his choice of many different women, and I heard through the grapevine that he decisively turned them down and actually spent the entire time telling them about me.

I worry you may be right.

don't necessarily need that anymore?

I think that might be a good thing, and not necessarily worrisome?

Just speaking from my own experience, happiness can be a frightening thing when all you've had to deal with in your life is conflict.

It can also be transformative.

You don't need to answer, but has your life been rather drama filled? Could you find yourself saying that it's always one thing after another going wrong? Having been in his shoes, I lost someone like you for that exact reason - I brought a stability and happiness to her life that she was so unaccustomed to that she got bored. She defined herself through drama. Her accomplishments in life were fixing problems, usually in other people because the ones within herself were far too complex, and once she found herself in a situation where there existed no problems, she managed to create them.

that tingly feeling is not love, it's uncertainty, it's a sickness

people who need all that fake drama to enjoy life and appreciate their partner have a sickness, i sure wouldn't let my personal sickness stand in the way of being w. someone who loves me like no one has ever loved me before

by the time they get married. As someone who has been married for almost 36 years, I can tell you that the "sparky" ones are sometimes the WORST people to marry.. Steady, kind, caring people are the ones you need, even if you don;t know it right away..(like my husband)

You never know what life has in store for you, and marriage is better when people are grown-ups...not lovesick, hormonal maniacs:)

People who have marriages arranged, and never even see each other until a short time before the wedding, do fall in love with each other and have happy lives too.. (some do NOT, but arranged marriages are a bit rare these days in most societies, anyway)

Marriage is about sharing.

Imagine your life without this person.. Is the rough-and tumble possibility of the occasional "spark" worth losing this person?

Please do NOT tell him how "sparkless" you feel UNLESS you are done with him forever.. People NEVER forget words that hurt.

Bad Idea? You betcha.

Selfish? Possibly.

feel differently.

See if you can come up with a way to take a break from each other without hurting his feelings. Stay out of touch for a couple of weeks- no calls, no emails, nada.

Then, see how you feel when you think of him or when you see him again.

Sometimes we don't know how much a person enhances our lives until we don't have them around anymore.

You may turn out to be pleasantly surprised!

Marriage is made up of many, many factors. The sexual infatuation is wonderful in the beginning, but it is not what ultimately makes a happy marriage.

Best of luck, and be true to yourself!

I think that this is a good idea, and I have always been one that despite my best efforts I never realize what I have until it's gone. I think I will perhaps ask for a little space to think about such a big decision, and see where it goes from there.

Thank you for your advice, all of you :hug:

From what I recall from your previous posts, there has been a huge amount of upheaval and drama in your life overe the past couple of years, with some major losses.

It's so hard to make life decisions like this one, but you know at your core, and in your heart, what is right. You may just need some quiet space to listen to your heart.

For all the advice to listen to your instincts, I think that is good advice. But be sure that you are really reading your instincts clearly, and not just thiking of throwing away a good thing because you are fearful of commitment.

I wish you all the best. This is a good problem to have, hon!

:hug:

If you feel there is something missing, then most likely there is and you will be aware of it. You may not be able to put your finger on it, but I guarantee you, you will know it when you find it. This man obviously doesn't have it, even though, as you describe, he has a lot of very fine qualities.

And no, that tingly feeling inside doesn't just happen in the movies.

Still yourself, get away from others' desires and expectations, and listen to your heart.

with cheaters. Maybe she shouldn't listen to it this time.

when Nurse Hathaway almost married the orthopedic surgeon who was a really nice guy and loved her? He wanted to marry someone who had that tingly feeling for him too... so they didn't marry, and years later she ended up with her true love Dr. Ross.
I don't think its wrong, but I'm a holdout for the real thing.

If you SO doesn't make you tingle all over with anticipation then it's all for show.
You can be in love a hundred times but when THE ONE comes along, you won't need to ask;
Gee..Should I marry them?

It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing.

the tingly feeling doesn't last anyway, the six figure salary will

some women can only have "chemistry" w. a bad boy, some men too, marriage should not be abt chemistry, is an economic unit

holding out for "chemistry" is how so many women wake up one day and find themselves married to substance abusers

get him before someone who appreciates him gets him away from you, you won't know what you have till he's gone

She better damn well love this guy when he's back to earning a regular living.

drama ain't love, it's just drama

what she HAS for the guy is love, she just thinks it isn't good enough because he isn't shitting on her and twisting her emotions all around

it's a shame abt how our brain chemicals work sometimes but there it is

His job is such that he could very possibly be working at McDonald's next year if a series of events were to happen. Being financially secure is certainly a positive for him, but you're right that the money isn't something that should hold much weight (if any) in my decision.

then you might be headed in the right direction.

He is such a wonderful human being, and I know based on his actions and his own priorities that he would be committed to me and our family always...and that's something I really want above all else.

I think I might just be expecting too much.

It is more important that HE love you more ( Men still wander more than woman!), than you love him. He LOVES you, will be a great husband and father and a great provider. The soap opera kinda love is total bushit and only last for a short time. We have a 50% divorce rate in this country...maybe because everyone is looking for some drama, not long last love and commitment. We may very well be headed for some tough years. Sounds to me like he would be a terrific partner to have during the tough times. I say go for it...and BE HAPPY!

there is nothing worse than marrying someone who may not love you as much as you love them...

I have known many women who marry the "bad boy" cuz he made them feel tingly but then they spent many a night alone at home with the kids wondering why the "bad boy" wasn't home from work at a reasonable hour...the same women who find themselves competing in the imaginary "best wife in the world contest" because they spend their entire marriage unsure about whether it will last.....if some people call that "tingly love"...I think they need to see a pychologist...

I still have not read it but saw him on TV. I think he's right. Let them run after you. When get one as great as this on..CATCH HIM! He sounds great!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/068987474X/ref=ase_bookstorenow50-20/104-9248865-0042317?s=books&v=glance&n=283155&tagActionCode=bookstorenow50-20

you are not mature enough to marry anyone, marriage is an economic contract not just a pretty white dress

all careers have normal ups and downs, but unless you're bill gates you don't need to marry someone who is not self-supporting, doesn't have a future, etc.

i know of NO woman who married a penniless man for money who is still with that man, the reality of our society is that men who are unsuccessful become bitter & depressed & take it out on their families, which leads to misery

nothing wrong w. having great sex w. a physically attractive poor man but you needn't marry him

i don't seriously think your intended is going to be working at macdonald's, i think you are looking for reasons to self-sabotage

i may very well be over-stepping so i'll shut up now

but i don't say what i say to be mean, i say it because i think you're at risk of screwing up a good thing

i have no credentials other than being w. the same man 20-plus yrs

Even if he were to lose his job in the next year, he has earned enough (and saved enough) since taking this job that if he lost it tomorrow, we could still have a fairly comfortable life for many, many years.

Don't get me wrong, the money he makes is very nice, I was just noting that it isn't a huge factor for me. He is a very hard worker nonetheless, and doesn't take all the money for granted.

It lasted five years as a result of sheer stubbornness. We managed to make each other miserable before it was over.

Maybe you need more time to figure out if he's what you want? I seem to recall we're roughly the same age and while I'm in no position to tell anyone not to get married young (well maybe I am- I did and it didn't work) I do know from experience that settling doesn't work out well in the long run. If you love him remember that you're doing him no favors by marrying him without every reason to believe that you can both be happy together in the long term.

PS Take all my advice with a grain of salt. I do not have a good track record when it comes to relationships.

It's like that line from "Thelma and Louise": we get what we settle for. For some people, the mundane safe life is what they want. Other people need more.

was that I was very young (and for that matter, I still am in some ways, but I've got a much better idea of what I want to do with my life and what I desire in a man) so I had very little idea of what it was I wanted and needed from a relationship. I went from a wild, madly in lust kind of relationship to a very settled one without really stopping to evaluate who I was and what I wanted, not that I really had enough life experience to do that effectively anyhow.

I don't regret that decision because living the quietly domestic life and having my son was a huge part of becoming who I am today, but settling for a man I was never in love with caused a great deal of pain to me and to him.

Ten years on, and I want out.

I can identify. :pals:

I wish I'd charted my life a bit more deliberately. I should have held out for someone with as sterling qualities as my husband's (he's a rock), but with whom I have some sexual and intellectual chemistry.

I think that's what's missing for me too. As I said, he's a good, decent man, but we're more like really close friends than spouses.

Writing that makes me feel sad.....

"romantic love" only lasts for a year. So it could be that that tingly feeling you're missing wouldn't be around that long anyway.

I don't necessarily think it's wrong to marry someone that you love but are not in love with, as long as you really do love him and believe in your heart that you will be able to be faithful. If you find yourself hoping that the man of your dreams is right around the corner, however, it probably wouldn't be fair to him.

As long as we were sexually compatible, I would personally rather marry someone with whom I got along perfectly and could talk to for hours (a best friend) than someone that I had a lot of chemistry with but couldn't talk to or get along with. Of course, it's not necessarily an either/or choice.

That's a tough one. Good luck making a decision.

If you have the emotional feelings, the physical ones become moot. If you love him emotionally, say "yes" before he feels too hurt and moves on.

BTW: Try being unloveable and see how far you get. Trust me, you haven't a clue as to how well you've got it right now.

After a year, your love hormones get back to an exact level they were before you have fallen in love.
So, the only way to keep "that loving feeling" is to keep changing partners year after year, or realize that "loving feeling" isn't going to last and stick with it.

"That loving feeling" is like a drug for a lot of people. They use it to make them feel better about themselves. But if you love who you are BEFORE falling for someone else, you won't need that tingling to make it last.

I've been married for 10 years and I hate to tell you that the love hormones are still in full force.

have been married for just over 3 years, and together for 6. They fade and sometimes disappear for awhile, but the *in love* feelings are still there for us. Like I said, sometimes they do disappear and we have to step back and admit that we feel more like roommates who have sex than like two people in love and in a great relationship. All it takes is a couple of minutes imagining life without the other, and all the sparks come flooding back. It's all about appreciating the other person, not for who they are, but for who you are because of them.

While I think it's different for different people, for Chris and me, we wouldn't be happy with just loving someone because we know what it is to BE IN LOVE and no one could make me (or him to hear him tell it) happier than the one I'm with. I couldn't settle for less. But, I've been told I'm lucky; and I really feel lucky to have what I have with him.
I fully believe in trusting your heart, not the tingly feelings in your stomach (or the lack of tingly feelings). It's the love in your heart that will keep you happy, not the giddy-ness in your stomach. And very few people are lucky enough to have a lifetime of both.

I lack, amongst other things, the understanding.

But I can say this: We only live once. Life is a lottery. Pull the proverbial lever. You've got nothing to lose.

By the way: Fuck the media, and not in that way. The media is an image and a conveyance of an image. They are dreams and nothing more. Keep reality out of the fictitious.

Would you want someone to marry you if they didn't love you the way you love them? Would you want someone to lie to you about how they feel?
And sometimes when you love someone, that tingly feeling isn't there. That feeling isn't love. The need to take care of someone and make them happy is more important than that feeling you're discussing as well. I sometimes wondered the same thing about Skip before I married him. I realized that it was the lack of drama that made me think I didn't love him. This is the first relationship that I've ever had where someone loves me completely and wholly just because he wants to. There is no drama. He's my best friend. And sure, maybe I don't get butterflies in my stomach everytime he kisses me, but I know that there's no one else I'd rather kiss. Take a few minutes and imagine how you would feel if you didn't have him anymore. Imagine him with someone else. How you feel when you do will give you the answer to your question.
Duckie

makes me sure...you wont be happy. Why not try
living together first.

Ask yourself what would make it exciting. What you give you that tingly anticipatory feeling?

Another thing I've found helpful is the old yellow tablet divided down the middle--positives on the left, negatives on the right.


And, ultimately: when in doubt, don't.

That's a value judgement I'm not willing to make about other people's lives short of legal, ethical/moral dilemmas. So, - if you don't love him at all then I'd say it was wrong. If you went into it solely for the financial benefits, I'd say that was wrong. But you do love him and you've got a doubt about whether you love him enough to spend the rest of your life with him. That's not so clearcut in the right/wrong scale.

I will say this; marriage is very difficult thing in the best of circumstances. If you're not going into it 100% convinced it's a life-long love, you're not giving the marriage the best possible chance for success.

Maybe some time and a bit of time with a really good relationship counselor would help you sort out the concerns you have. Maybe a long engagement or a bit of time 'living in sin' would help you sort out an answer.

I'll butt in with my two cents. I "settled in" to a relationship that was financially secure, comfortable, predictable, and for all intent and purposes, boring. I never had the "falling madly in love" phase, and quite frankly the passion of it all was brief and after the novelty wore off, it was just a kind of numbness of routine that took over. I stayed in the relationship because I was comfortable, and because I was too codependent to think that I could live by myself. Things went sour; then they went destructive. And still I stayed, because it was what I knew.

I look back, and realize that I had grown so complacent that I had never throughout the relationship been true to myself. I was always looking over the fence for the greener grass, but never having the balls to do anything about it. Comfort only goes so far. What looks good on paper only goes so far. I realized in all of the years I was with my ex, that not once had that person indulged any of my interests. It was always about what they liked to do, whether it be dine out, or travel to Florida. I was an avid horseman, an avid snowboarder, an avid surfer, yet not once in eight years did this person try to engage relationship-wise to my whims, my strengths, my passions. And so, life just was.... comfortable.... it just looked good on paper. I was unhappy but didn't know it, or didn't want to know it.

My point is that I think your intuition is telling you something. Don't settle for comfort. Human beings aren't static creatures, and the point at which you just do something for comfort sake, and question the whole time if it is the right thing to do... the moment you stop feeling that spark, that thrill, that excitement, and the moment you stop wanting to challenge someone else or challenge yourself, is the moment you stop living, and the moment you get old.

Which is probably why I am so very single these days, hahaha. Because I won't settle anymore, just to be with someone. There has got to be that person out there who gives me that thrill, that challenge, and I do the same.

I'm screaming inside..DON'T DO IT! I married someone for the wrong reasons and wasn't in love with that person and it was awful.

Maybe you're misdefining "in love" my dear.

Maybe you ARE in love with him, but you're more comfortable with him than you expect, and with that, the "tingly feeling" isn't so obvious.

Here's my question...why are you not sure that you are in love with him? Seems a big schism for a preposition...

I am not sure I am in love with him is because - as an example - I practically feel nothing 90% of the time when he kisses me. When he tries to hug me or kiss me or touch me, sometimes it almost bothers me (or annoys me). I feel like a horrible person obviously, because he just wants to kiss/hug me to show me he loves me, but it bothers me sometimes. It's almost like I've lost interest in the relationship, while at the same time realizing that he is SO good to me and loves me like no one has before.

I'm starting to think I am a horrible person and frankly just don't deserve someone like him. When I think back to relationships I've had where I feel that "spark" and that nutty, crazy love, all of the men were cheaters or otherwise very bad for me. I'm probably doomed to destroy every good relationship I have because there's something wrong with me.

Based upon what you've said, I don't think it would be fair to him.

ETA - It wouldn't be fair to YOU either.

and I understand what some people are saying about maybe needing drama. I was like that -- and it was always negative drama. But I've done a hell of a lot of healing, and have come to realize that I am a passionate person about many things, which is not the same as being a Drama Queen.

I married a very safe man -- he's good, kind, decent, funny. But I am realizing that the relationship does not fulfill me in the way I want. I'm not just talking about sex; I'm talking about many things. He seems to be fine with it; I am increasingly not fine with it.

You say you feel almost nothing most of the time when he kisses you. I would expand that, and thing about other aspects of the relationship. Are there other areas where you feel nothing, or just feel safe, or worse, complacent?

He may be madly in love with you, but if you feel there is something missing, it would not be fair to him (or to you) to marry him. Believe me, what is missing will just become more noticeable over time, not less.

You don't "deserve" him. He should deserve you, and should prove as such.

Next, regardless, you are no horrible person for whatever thoughts/feelings you have. Dismiss your negative self-judgment, and let clarity work it's course.

As to what you said, why does it bother/annoy you when he shows physical affection?

If you've lost interest, or don't have "that loving feeling" then you might want to consider why you'd entertain the idea. He's good to you and loves you like no other. That's great, but it's not a valid basis for marriage. Two way street. However, if you're just being tough on him, then, well...

BTW, never view a current relationship in light of other relationships.

Sorry, hon. You know I wish the very, very best for you, and you should have the epitome of happiness.

Big hugs to you.

I think we should take some time apart and go from there. There's certainly no rush or hurry, and if it's meant to be, it will be.

Honestly...thank you for the support and advice. It means so very, very much to me. :hug:

I just want you to be happy, my dear.

And he...he would be the luckiest man on earth to be your other half. You know that.

You're right. No hurry...no clock to beat, no goal to achieve. Enjoy, be sure.

If you dislike (or for that matter, don't actively like) his non-sexual touch, something's really wrong.

I don't want to go out on a limb here, so please tell me if I'm not onto something, but is some part of you looking at this guy as your way out of your issues with your family?

I've thought about that, but don't really feel like that's much at work. What may be happening, is that I am having issues with receiving love from others. My Mom was always a good parent for the most part, but was not very love-y or affectionate with me, and I have spent my life seeking her approval. I'm sure there is some psychological dynamic in my relationship with my SO that stems from my relationship (or lack thereof) with my parents.

I think we should take some time apart and just step back for a little while and see where we are. As I mentioned earlier, there is certainly no rush or hurry to make a decision overnight.

In any event, thank you for being so supportive of everything, LeftyMom, and for the advice. You're the best :)

I think taking some time to reflect and make a wise decision is a good idea. :hug:

Sweetie, take your time, KNOW YOURSELF!

A few important questions: If you could support yourself very comfortably, say in style even and without any help, would that significantly influence your decision? How much do you really RESPECT him as a person? Is he emotionally strong?

Don't do any guilt trips on yourself and ignore family pressure. Find your heart.

A few trips to a female therapist might also help.

Good luck.

in fact, it's going to suck for him.
unless you can live with a life time of faking it, it's going to be pretty crappy for you too.

go to a therapist, cause that is an obvious problem.

There are so many things that factor into "true" love, and I think the components of "true love" can legitimately vary for individuals and relationships. In any event, when encountering issues such as this I try to step to the other side of the mirror. For example, how do you think he would feel if he accidentally overheard you telling your best friend:

Why I am not sure I am in love with him is because ... I practically feel nothing 90% of the time when he kisses me. When he tries to hug me or kiss me or touch me, sometimes it almost bothers me (or annoys me). I feel like a horrible person obviously, because he just wants to kiss/hug me to show me he loves me, but it bothers me sometimes. It's almost like I've lost interest in the relationship, while at the same time realizing that he is SO good to me and loves me like no one has before.

How do you think he would react if he knew you felt this way?

hairy children who are sometimes capable of acting like adults. It sounds like yours is quite nice!

There isn't a thing wrong with you. You found a normal man and could be about to embark on a normal, healthy relatioship, if you let it. Or else you could just move on to the next loser and have yet another ballistic, volatile, empty relationship that goes nowhere!

Marriages aren't the movies. They aren't story books. They're built on trust, friendship, mutual goals, companionship, equality and love.

Old people who have been married 50 years don't have a spark or fireworks. They push each other around in wheelchairs and wash each other's teeth in a glass.

Here's another thing, and rather unorthodox... you don't have to stay married forever. You could though, if you two feel like it. You could get married, have your family and see how the relationships evolve. Maybe you'll stay together forever, maybe you won't. Divorce isn't fatal! Hell, half the marriages in the US end in divorce and most people end up FINE, if they conclude the marriage the same way they went in, with dignity and friendship!

I say give it a shot. Don't dwell on any particular aspect of the relationship, stop overprocessing it, and just live your life. He sounds great, he'll be a great dad, get knocked up right away, and have some kids. Make a family, live a life and enjoy it for TODAY. You sound like you're on the verge of growing up yourself.. this is a great time to do it, and will change things for the better for you. So, go for it.

And just a side note- the more annoyed my husband makes me, the more I love him!

Well, thank you for that insightful advice - it made me laugh, so thank you ;) I think so many of us (girls, particularly) are hard-wired from a young age to believe that we will have that initial, tingly feeling forever.

going to deal with the sex part of the marriage when you feel nothing?

And you're really looking for opinions here... then he's not the man for you. I've had relationships like that where you think that since everything else is so great, you can ignore the fact that you are not really attracted to the person, and if you are annoyed by his touch, then either you are not attracted to him, or you have boundary issues that have nothing to do with him. Since you say you have had relationships with a "spark" though, I'm going to assume that you've also been in relationships where the man's touch does not annoy you.

Just asking this question indicates to me that you might have already decided what you feel. In any case, you should definitely not marry him until you reconcile this. In my experience, the feeling of annoyance and dissatisfaction will only increase over time. If it decreases, great. At the very least, you owe it to him to discuss this with him.

just my opinion, but almost annoys you?? No, I'd say don't marry him.

Go with you gut. I wish I would've at several crucial times in my life.

He's from a lower-middle class family from Jersey...even though he has money now he knows how Republican leadership treats anyone who isn't super wealthy. I'd never even seriously date someone who was a * voter! :)

romantic feelings can fade, even after just a few years. But REAL love is something you feel after you've both gained a lot of weight, you've gone gray (or bald), and gravity has taken its toll on your 20-30something physique.

Nobody looks the same on their wedding day as on their 10th anniversary-- or even their 5th, for that matter. Marry somebody because you love who the ARE, and what they mean to you-- not just because you feel some sort of physical "chemistry".

you had to ask. :shrug:

Sounds like you've got a great thing going that not many people have. Course, that's just my opinion.

How many relationships have you had? This makes a huge difference.

Have you ever had that spark you seek with someone else? How long, exactly, did it last? These sparks, I think, are ephemeral. The fire that comes after, controlled and measured as it may be, is much warmer, much more comforting than sparks.

Love is a very complex matter and maturity and experience are very much involved. I very much doubt that I could value my wife as much as I do if I didn't have some comparisons. Now I know what I have and nothing could ever make me stop appreciating her and feeling how fortunate I am to love someone like her.

My sister-in-law expressed the same kind of reservations as you do when she was 32, after x (x>10) lovers, and I advised her that she was really looking for something that doesn't really exist - the stuff that goes with the intoxication of puppy love. My guess is that it was a kind of fear that resided in her, and had little to do with her husband to be. I think she was aware of what I was saying - she had reference. She has been married for some time and seems quite happy.

I think that the need to hold on to a magical fascination of wild eyed heads over heels love is really an attempt to keep what you have never really had. Mature love - based on respect, caring, shared experience, trust, and above all, friendship - is incomparable, but you have to work at it. It's not magic.

Kahlil Gibran wrote, "If, in your fear, you seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears..."

This applies somehow I think. If you cannot give love so much as take it, it would be better not to weep all of your tears.

necessarily be someone who "made me feel all tingly," because I am capable of being physically attracted to men whom I absolutely KNOW would be disastrous for me.

However, a sense of being on the same wavelength mentally, emotionally, and in terms of values is priceless.

I would marry a man who had sterling qualities but didn't make my heart go pit-a-pat IF I felt that we, say, had the ability to communicate on several levels.

Two years ago, I had an Internet matchup with amn who seemed just fine in cyberspace, in that he seemed to have all the right qualities and we connected intellectually, but there was no communication on the level of emotions or sense of humor when we met in person.

Here's something that I've always found to be a good test: Spend some time (a weekend or a week) apart and see if you miss him. If you don't, if it's a relief to be away from him, then the relationship has no future. If you do wish he were with you, if you find yourself thinking "X would enjoy this," or "I wish I could tell X about this" or "I could really use a talk with X right now," then you do love him, only it's in a way that you're not used to.

:nopity: :banghead:

right there is a big thing you'd never admit to him, right?
not a great start.

Passionate kisses aren't worth much when the one you love turns out to be more in love with himself, or is easily distracted and/or finds other things in life more important to his entertainment than your company and affection.

I think you're young, IIRC. How does he feel about your horses? Does he encourage you with them, or does he resent them? That's a major part of your heart.

Think about what drew you to him in the first place. Must have been something there for it to last for a while like this. Were you looking for someone solid and stable? Why are you looking for something different now?

Life isn't perfect. Love isn't perfect. If the tingly feeling were there with someone else, maybe another important aspect would be missing. Are you the kind of person who tends to say, "It's almost perfect, but ..."?

How would you feel if he disappeared tomorrow? Be honest with yourself. Think of your life 5 years from now without him. Will someone better come along, or will you again be wrestling with the idea that you're "settling"?

I'm just about to step down from my soapbox, but I would advise you to seek out a good marriage counselor for a few sessions, just to get a truly objective professional viewpoint. But, if you want my sincere opinion, my gut tells me you won't regret marrying this man.

And if not a marriage couselor, how about a counselor to work through some of this stuff on your own?

I think the question about the horses is very important.

He is honest and honorable, and is very loyal to those he cares for. He has a little brother who he absolutely adores - he helps him study for his tests and when he makes good grades in school, he will reward him with special things. As I mentioned above, because of his job he has many pretty women around him a lot, and through someone I didn't even know, I learned that one woman in particular was really hitting on him. She was disappointed, she said, that all he kept talking about was his girlfriend.

He is extremely supportive of my interests - he's a city boy but comes with me when I'm at the barn with the horses, and comes to my shows when he can. He was sort of into politics when we met, but since we met he has started reading DU a lot so he will be able to talk to me about the things I'm interested in.

What drew me to him was that he appears very much a "bad boy" but is nothing like it. He's physically very attractive and is one of the kindest people I know - he would help absolutely anyone with anything at anytime, especially those he really loves.

If I think about him not being in my life, it does make me sad. But I can't seem to shake the possibility that maybe there is someone out there that has all his qualities and still gives me that feeling in my stomach when we kiss.

I think, no matter what, that some counseling as you suggested might be a good idea. I think he may be a little confused if I ask him to go with me, but I am certain he would do it if he thought it was good for me.

Thank you for the insight...really. It means a lot to hear yours (and everyone's) advice. :)

Nothing but a biological reaction which has really nothing to do with your heart, your soul, your mind.

I once fell in love with a man who almost made me faint every time he kissed me. (Heh) Anyway, after a while, as time went on, there just wasn't anything there to really hold us together. We're still friends, I still get a thrill just to look at him when we chance to meet, but I would never get back into that relationship. Can you guess why? Because I prefer someone like what you've already got. That's the difference between those who believe that time is on their side, and those who know that time is on no one's side. There are no guarantees.

From what you say of him, I think he'd be willing to go to counseling if he thinks it will improve his chances that you'll be with him forever. Sweetie, a man who is your best friend is a wonderful gift. And remember that you don't have to make a decision right away. If he loves you today, he'll still love you next year, and the next, and the next, if it takes that long for you to feel comfortable with the idea of being with him forever.

:hug:

when he finds this thread.

Realize how good you've got it with this guy.

Girl, now I am really beginning to think that you want out of this relationship on one level or another, because knowing that he reads DU, you come here and post this?!

Even if the feeling existed, after a couple of years of marriage, it would most likely be gone anyway. And then where would you be? The feelings-they don't last.
LOL.

but you've said things here that make me think you have the same disease I did-- the ones who make your heart beat madly are the ones who turn out to be utterly impossible.

Therapy helped me to realize that I was unknowingly afraid of intimacy,which made me hot for charismatic "bad boys" who were incapable of it.

I had to consciously let myself open up to the idea of finding someone who might not make my adrenaline spurt as much, but who I was truly compatible with-- emotionally, intellectually, spiritually, and yes, sexually.

We've now been happily married for 15 years.

I can only relate my own experiences. I met him when I was 16. We graduated from HS together and went to college together. He was a drummer and I was determined to make it work, even though there were clear signs early on that I was not his priority. Also, it was apparent that he wanted it to work, but it just wasn't right. I gave up my music and ended up in finance because one of us had to earn a living. I put him through two graduate degrees. While we were friends, we didn't always communicate well and there really wasn't any fire. If there were occasional sparks, it was hormones calling to one another. We had a child and limped along for nearly 18 years married. He found his passion with someone else and his inappropriate relationship lasted over a year. Yes, I was the last to find out. So at 44, I'm on my own with my daughter. He's remarried.

I made all the right decisions for the wrong reasons or the wrong ones for the right reasons. Don't know which.

I guess personally, I believe that if you don't have some spark and passion for the person - if you don't find yourself smiling when he calls or comes through the door, eventually, you'll look elsewhere for it. I know my ex did.

If I'm fortunate enough to find love, I will not settle. Personally I think life is too short and at 44, it's getting much, much shorter.

Please understand that this is all from my own perspective and based on my experiences. I'm just offering some real-life outcomes.

You're in a very difficult place and have been give some excellent advice. I like the idea of time apart and how you feel when it's over.

Please know that we're thinking of you.

:hug:

I am so thankful for the wise souls on here willing to share their experiences and thoughts - thank you so much for the advice and good wishes. Don't know how I'd survive without DU! :hug:

lack thereof. I've been with my husband for 27 years. During the ups and downs of a life together, I know we wouldn't be together if I expected that romantic, tingly, love to last. That's the uncertainty of the first romance and the euphoria of those first heady days. Sure, we do romance each other but the love that lasts is the one where you work together building a life. Sometimes life is boring but it so much better together. I think you should marry him.

we know and understand this concept.

I occasionally stare whistfully into space and wonder what it would be like to have that charged, uncontrollable urge to jump my husband's bones. And it still happens sometimes, but it's not what holds our relationship together.

If one has a deep need for constant "tingly" feelings, one will never be happy with just one partner. And there's not necessarily anything wrong with chosing that path.

I guess it's just a question of getting to know yourself and what will make you happy in the long run.

For me, the "tingly" feeling is about a feeling of connectedness with that other person. Yes, there are ups and downs, and it is unrealistic to think that that high level of intensity will be constant. But is there a connection of body, mind, heart, and soul?

But would you agree that there is a difference between craving misery, and knowing that something is "missing" from a relationship, and the "missing" thing is not misery?

relationship. As she described it herself, the guy is good-looking, rich, loves her, and her best friend. Maybe she is not happy because he doesn't make her life miserable?

her? That sometimes she doesn't like his touch? Do you think he knows this, or is she faking it already?
H He deserves to know this. and hey, if he still wants to marry her after knowing that, i guess he's the one who's a glutton for punishment.

notion that all is good sex wise. and if if she's pretending already...
well, what can i say, it's no way to treat a "best friend" either. and he'll figure it out eventually.

best behavior before marriage. LOL.

and when they're not feeling it, they look to fix it, not hide the problem.
good god, one of them took libido vitamins because it was going to be a deal breaker if it continued. they actually seemed to work. LOL.
i myself have said a few times, "Okay, but make it quick! " or "Again? you have to be fucking kidding me?"
:shrug:

edit: sp

and it all depends upon why. I'm someone who desperately needs some alone time. I spent much time alone as a child and I go crazy when I have to interact all the time even with someone I love. It's something my husband and I had to understand about each other. Sometimes, I just want to be alone and I don't want any interaction. Other times, I crave his touch. On the other hand, if you don't desire physical closeness most of the time than that's not good for a marriage.

and used the term perfectly boring, and she also said she completely related to the poster who said you could have great sex and then not care much when/ if you see the person again.
i'd be shocked if he knew any of this, let alone all of it. so much for being on the same wavelength, or best friends building something on trust- none of those things are a one way street. :shrug:

I'm not looking for all the fireworks. I do want to be appreciated, cherished and will do the same if the right person comes along. Being a safe harbor for one another is so important and being truly glad to see one another should be a given or did I live in a meaningless marriage too long and now have expectations that aren't real?

The same word can mean different things to different people. And you pose an interesting question about maybe having unrealistic expectations. I know what's missing in my marriage, and realize that it -- or rather they, as there are several things -- are very important to me. My husband is not a bad guy at all, but I have come to see that there are things about each of us that don't match very well. I don't think my expectations are unrealistic at all, but it is a good question to ask.

You can be in a bad marriage with a nice man or woman. Still, I've seen too many folks not marry or end marriages because that initial euphoria fades. Good relationships are based upon more than that wonderful 'in love' feeling.

The connectedness is very important.

But even that takes work, and it also ebbs and flows.

but after too many failed marriages, I can suggest that you talk openly with this man.

Have you discussed childrearing? Everything from whether or not he will attend any delivery to breastfeeding to discipline to religious preferences? Boys or girls? Procreate or adopt?

Have you discussed how and where you wish to live? Does he support your career? Does he have an opinion as to your working - if and when a child is born?

Does he have any prejudices that might cause conflict with family and friends? What were his past relationships like? Why did they end?

No person is perfect. There is something to be said for those once-in-a-lifetime relationships where you seem to be cast into one another's DNA and you feel you can't afford to spend one moment in life without that other. They can end in disaster just as easily as the "convenience" relationships; even nice guys eventually will desire to wander if you fail to reciprocate affection.

But who is going to be there when the baby is sick and you are at your wit's end? Marriage is more than how you spend your time now. If you decide to have kids, your happy couple life will change dramatically. You might just fall in love with the guy who is there for you through morning sickness and labor and late- night feedings.

Have some open discussions and find out if there are significant issues where you two differ. Your gut may be telling you that there are. And don't use anybody. If you can't give to this man that which marriage requires of you, back out graciously.

Good luck.

Obviously the "tingly feeling" you're referring to isn't just sexual because the physical aspect of your relationship is good. It seems like you're missing an emotional connection that would make the relationship last through the almost inevitable times when the money is tight, his looks fade, and he doesn't have enough time for you and the family. Think of how he would feel if he knew that he was your perfect match on paper but you weren't in love with him and felt like something would always be missing.

...and in fact was thinking of posing a similar question here (with the differences being that I'm the male, and she's not nearly so "hollywood" perfect as your guy, but she is "perfect" in many ways for me and my situation). I haven't read this thread yet, but I fear I'll be just as confused as I am now when I'm finished reading all these replies.

Until I found myself in this situation, I know I would never have been able to understand what you mean by, "the *cough* physical aspect of our relationship is good, too". But I do understand. Or at least I relate (I can't really say I "understand" my own situation). And all I can say is, it's just weird; to find oneself having amazing sex, as often as you could want it.... and not really caring that much about when you'll get to see them to do it again.

And then I think, "well maybe if you just decide to go for this, everything would fall in place, the romance would follow". But I'm afraid that my mind and heart just don't work that way.

Everything you said is how I feel, too. It;s confusing and from some of the posts I feel like a cold-hearted bitch for even doubting this seemingly perfect guy. The truth is, I want so very much to feel the tingly feeling inside and I want this to work. I am not consciously feeling this way about the relationship because I enjoy toying with him - honestly, it is the last thing I want to do. I guess I don't have a real good reason to end it, and keep hoping that I'm just being young and flakey and I will grow out of this antsy, "I might want more" phase.

Ugh.

you found a good one yet-I feel sorry for the guy.
Seems like he will be hurt, regardless of whether you decide to marry him or not.

I am trying to decide if I can spend the rest of my life with someone. I think it's a pretty good idea that I at least consider that it may not work out forever, instead of just gushing about how perfect he is and glossing over any potential problems we may have (like most people do, and that's why 50% of marriages end).

If I truly didn't give a shit about him and didn't care whether I hurt him, I'd just marry him and screw the consequences or any reservations I'm having now. I'm asking because I'd rather hurt him by ending it now than destroying him by ending it 15 years down the road.

and that guy routinely beat her, stole from her, and made her life miserable.

But still . . . she said she was "in love" with him and no man made her feel "tingly" like he did.

He finally went to prison and she still pines for him.

I'm sure she could've had a happy life with a guy with whom she was compatible and even "loved" but she was hung up on the concept of "in love." Even when she had stitches in her head.

I think "in love" is an over-rated concept.

We are all revealing our own issues here as much as we are addressing the question.

I feel like a Johnny-come-lately to this thread and suspect I can't say anything that really hasn't already been said, but I thought I'd stick my nose in anyway.

See the topic. Asking advice about things like this, particularly in a public forum, tends to be a delaying tactic that allows one either to avoid making a decision or to find validation in one of the opinions for a decision that has already been made, which needs time to surface. Perhaps you're a person who doesn't do well with quick decisions, and even the term "quick" means different things to different people. (It's not a bad thing.) Perhaps some other unstated, possibly unrealized issue is driving you to delay. Whatever the reason, a stall it is. Subconsciously we know that by asking advice of multiple people, we're going to get multiple answers, and in the end, we haven't come any closer to doing anything merely by contemplating the advice. What you're doing when you ask about this is allowing yourself time to consider, perhaps only subconsciously, but that's more important in the long run anyway. What you want deep down comes from your subconscious, and it takes many of us time for that to manifest itself as a conscious thought.

That said, here's my bit to allow your mind to chew on whatever it needs to chew on. That "tingly feeling" is not the same as being "in love." You can get that tingly feeling with a big box of chocolates or by anticipating a highly desired event or even something like shopping. We get tingly feelings about cats and dogs, especially kittens and puppies. Feeling all tingly is feeling infatuated or excited by the new and mysterious, and that lasts, oh, about 32 seconds into a long-term commitment because no single thing, event, person, etc. will ever produce the rush of hormones necessary for that tingly feeling to be a constant. This is not a cynical mantra. This has been scientifically tested and shown to be true.

This does not mean you should marry him necessarily. It only means that the reason you've chosen to question whether you should marry him is not a real reason. At the end of the day or week or month or however long it takes you to go over it all in your mind, do you want to get married to him, to anyone at all even? Again, only you can answer that.

stupid to do something because of an advice from a stranger on a message board.

Do it or don't.

The more you have to think about it, the less right it is.

Redstone

...to your question.

If there were, no one here would be able to give it anyway. Only you can do that.

Human emotions and relationships are complex and elusive things. What suits one person in one situation does not suit others. And only the individual will know what works specifically for them and to what degree. Success is sometimes measured differently from day to day.

Different things work for us at various points in our lives. If you insist on asking someone, talk to some people you actually know, those whose relationships you see in action and seem successful, not some anonymous strangers on an Internet board. Ask them what has changed about their relationships over the years, how their expectation and satisfaction might have shifted.

one that decides what the answer to her question should be.
Frankly, none of us really know the situation, so we really aren't in a very good position to even give advice.

"I am not sure I am in love with him is because - as an example - I practically feel nothing 90% of the time when he kisses me. When he tries to hug me or kiss me or touch me, sometimes it almost bothers me (or annoys me)."

That right there is not good. :( :hug:

if the affectionate things he is doing now can be annoying, how long can it be before looking up at him one day and deciding the very sight of him is aggravating?

I'm in the camp of if you can't honestly give it everything you've got, then it isn't fair to either.

I say Marry him! He sounds great and he'll make you happy.

:hi:

And love grows and changes over time anyway - over the course of a marriage, love can take many different forms and go through many different phases. Often, the "tingly butterflies in the stomach" feeling is replaced by the warm, comfortable feeling of safety and familiarity. Many times that "butterfly" feeling is really more passion than love, and doesn't stand the test of time. And there is a biological reason for that. In the early stages of love and attraction, we often experience some physiological changes. Our hearts race, our appetite diminishes, we have trouble sleeping, we can stay awake all night, floating on the wings of this new love. But imagine if that state of acceleration persisted indefinitely? We'd either starve to death or die of exhaustion. When I first met my husband, I was so jazzed up that I lost 12 pounds and started sleeping about 4 hours a night. Trouble is, I DO NOT have 12 pounds to lose. Luckily, things simmered to a workable level when the novelty of a new boyfriend wore off. After nearly five years of marriage, we've "calmed down" a bit, but are still very much in love. We've also started eating again! :-)

In addition, many times, the same men who make us weak in the knees for the entire course of our relationship are not the same men that can be trusted to be faithful and reliable. One of the greatest dilemmas women face is when they reach that point in their life when they are faced with trading in bodice-ripping passion for security and stability. I have never met a man who provides both. If we still feel overcome with urgency at the sight/sound/thought of a man after a certain amount of time, it's likely because we are still in "chase mode" - in other words, we don't feel confident that he is really ours.

So, IMHO, the kind of love you have now is a perfectly good enough reason to get married - if it is security, trust, and reliability you wish for in the long term. Imagine yourself growing old with this man, imagine yourselves at 80. What will be more important in the long run?

I realize I cannot speak for everyone in the world, but this testimonial is based on my own experiences, and those of every woman I personally know.

Best of luck to you in whatever you choose.

Your advice was wonderful, and thank you for posting it :)

so marry someone you like and respect and enjoy sex with.

It's just that compared with lust (so-called "romantic love"), it is dull and mundane. There is no "fizz." But the fizz of romantic love does not last, and any attempt to build a lasting relationship on it will fail. Love (which is simply attachment or friendship taken to a high level) is comparatively strong and enduring, and is a suitable basis for building a relationship on.

I call it attachmenr or friendship. just like I said, find a friend and build an attachment if you want monogamism.

that gooshy "love" feeling is false. Don't make life decisions because your stomach feels queezy for a few days.

Sometimes the subcounsious is more perceptive than we give it credit for.

Marry someone you can't live without, not just someone you can live with.

After spending quite a bit of time perusing this thread I am thinking there might be some chance that you get that "tingly feeling" in potentially stressful situations. That feeling might be your "women's intuition" warning you, but due to other issues in your present, and/or more probably, your past, you misinterpret this amazing gift...
Therapy could be the best path now. Honesty with yourself and candor are crucial. Finding a therapist to effectively and gracefully help you heal is a daunting task. Perhaps someone here has some tips so you do not end up wasting your time and resources with an inappropriate therapist. Best wishes, you are a lucky woman!

it's time to look at yourself. You're either expecting too much or you're afraid of something.

I'm afraid because I don't feel worthy of his love (which I'm probably not) and I also think I'm expecting that feeling in your stomach that you have when you first start dating to last...well, forever.

When friendship or attachment is taken to a certain level, it is love. It is not that "love" is something different from friendship. They are different parts of the same continuum. It is vitally important to understand this, or no marriage will ever work for you. It is something that I think in the West is very widely misunderstood.

That feeling you refer to that is missing, the romantic aspect, is not love. It's lust. And a marriage will not be supported by it. Lust and love are not mutually exclusive; you can have lusty feelings towards the one you love, and that is great when it happens. But neither are they dependent; you don't have to fancy someone to love them.

The important point is that, compared to lust, love is boring and mundane, but it is also strong and enduring. You can build a marriage on it. Lust, on the other hand, does not last - so don't expect it to - and you cannot build anything on it.

not being IN LOVE with your mate can make it a lot harder. I've had both...I'll take in love and tingly.

It's really not fair to the other person. Everyone needs their mate to be in love with them, IMO.

I was all ready to tell you that a marriage isn't built on "tingly feelings" and that if you found yourself a good man, your best friend, someone stable who you are comfortable with then get over your little Cinderella dreams of what love *should* be and appreciate what you have. Until I read your post about not wanting him to touch you...

Now I'm trying to figure out how to politely ask what you're still doing with this guy never mind considering marrying him. You are being dishonest with him - you say the "physical aspect of our relationship is good, too." and I say, bullshit. If you don't want him kissing or touching you, your physical relationship is NOT good. And if you're pretending that it's ok to make him feel better, you are lying to him and yourself. That way leads to resentment and problems that lead people to divorce.

Good luck. It sounds like you need to figure out what makes a relationship/marriage really endure before you take this step.

If there is something missing now, and I know how you're feeling (I think)It will always be missing, and one day you'll look for it again.

I spent 16 years in a marriage with a woman I loved dearly, She was my best friend for a long time. But in the end, The 'missing' piece got bigger and bigger, more and more important. Eventually we both accepted it wasn't there and moved on.

Now, I've got it back, I'm seeing a woman who I think about from the time I wake up till I go to sleep. I get chills when I look at her picture. I don't know how I lived without that feeling for so long.

well, that would be something.

I can't advise you beyond that.

You want to be told that it is wrong or it isn't.

A better question to ask is for what reasons would you want to marry a person.

If your reason for marrying is that they make your heart go "boom" then this wouldn't be the person to marry.

If your reason for marrying is to have love and companionship with a great human being who cares for you and for whom you would do anything and he would do anything, then he may or may not be the right person but that would require reflection on your part.

Either one of those scenarios involves some suffering and compromise, especially if you are already prone to suffering as many people are. Nothing makes them happy because, fundamentally, they aren't happy.

The physical things you reference, i.e. great sex but recoiling at times when he touches you are far too complex for any of us to address since we don't know your past and don't know what is really being triggered when that happens. That's something for you to address with a competent therapist.

me" part.

Perhaps when they have sex (which is SEX) it is great but when he shows signs of affection (which have more to do with intimacy) it creates discomfort. People/ emotions/ minds are complex creatures.

on edit: Besides which, I believe there are 3 fundamental conversations that most westernized humans share to some degree or another:

I'm not worthy... i.e. leads to sabotage in one's unworthiness

I don't belong... i.e. leads to feelings of alienation whether real or imagined

This isn't IT... when I do/ get to/ have_______ THEN it will be different

You seem to see a manipulation going on here.

I see a young woman who is confused and going through some really important changes in her life and trying to get advice from others with more experience.

I think it might be pretty cruel to post some of the things that has been posted. If he thinks he is about to get married, it might be a shock to read what his girlfriend actually feels toward him.

I don't think she's said anything cruel about him. She has been complementary and has said only nice things about him. She knows this is her problem, and she is trying to figure it out on her terms.

preferred to find out in private, and not on a public message board: such as her not liking him touching her, not being in love with him, etc.
It sounds like he hasn't a clue about any of it, so, I am assuming she hasn't revealed to him how she actually feels about him.

Isn't this the same kind of conversation that someone in her spot might have with close girlfriends or other confidantes?

It could be that this is a safer place to ask those questions. Imagine a jealous friend making sure he found out that she had doubts after she had discussed this in "private"?

I just think you're being unduly hard on the OP. She is confused, and she is asking the right questions before she makes a committment.

From what she has said, I think she's doing some real soul searching. Doesn't she have a right to do that?

She as said that she's not "in love" with him as related to a rather iffy definition of being "in love".

But I agree with you that he would be hurt if he read this. I hope he won't. But if he does, he'll probably learn, in addition to anything hurtful, that she is searching her soul. One would expect that of their future husband or wife, would they not?

He sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders, and if he really does care for her, he will let her go through this process. All we can do is hope that for everyone's sake, they are both being honest with themselves.

if he happens to read this thread, he is going to figure it out. And seriously, who would be happy to find out that their SO is going trough some soul searching process, in order to decide if they even would want to be with you?

Because of his job, he won't be reading much of anything on DU until after the first of the year. And when he does read DU, he doesn't read the discussion boards.

He knows I am doing some soul searching, and he's a good enough man to know that this is what I need right now and he's letting me do it.

Thank you for sticking up for me. I truly, truly do not want to hurt him. I am just very confused and don't want to make any big decisions that will ultimately hurt him - or me. This is a big step, and I know that I will either come out on the end of realizing I can't live without this person in my life, or I'll decide that maybe he and I aren't meant to be together. Either way, I'd rather have my doubts now (before we even get officially engaged) than after the marriage and 2 kids.

The last few days, my girlfriends and I were talking about this, and I am well aware of the fact I have problems being intimate with men. My family was never a touchy-feely, "we love you so much honey!!" kind of family - always hugging and kissing and all that.

I DO love him very, very much - more than anyone I've ever loved before. I just feel like I am not feeling things I should, and am only asking because I don't want to hurt him in the long run. If I didn't care, I'd just marry him for his money and because we get along so well and say the hell with it, I'm giving it a shot and whatever happens happens. I think if more people DID question whether what they had would last forever, the divorce rate wouldn't be what it is. I think it's more normal to question whether or not one has a lifeling partnership then to sit back and think everything is perfect there's NO way this will ever break up!

I realize it would hurt him if he knew I was doubting the longevity of our relationship, but I'd rather hurt him by having my doubts now than 15 years and 2 kids later.

I wish you well.

with that?

If so, don't marry him. If you don't think you could stand losing him, spark or not, say "yes".

IMHO, YMMV.
Julie

I cringe at the thought of him just being with someone else. And the more I think about it, I don't know if I could stand losing him either, sparks or not.

Thank you, Julie :hug:

What truly matters is lifelong fidelity and commitment.

It sounds like this is the type of guy to grow old and raise generations with.

You have to determine if it's more important to find that elusive, quickly-disappearing "spark" that doesn't last a full year of any marriage.

I'd say you have a good guy. Go with it. There are too many jerks out there, not enough decent joes.

Life's too short to chase something that doesn't exist.

or it's the ole' badboy-danger anxiety. Either way, one of you will probably love the other a little more--why not have it go your way? You CHOOSE "The one". Then you choose to keep choosing that one. Holding back, waiting for Mister Tingles is a waste.

Would you step away from the guy making your heart go pitter-pat, congratulating yourself on having something worthwhile? Would you have an affair? Would you consider divorce? How well would you make out in the settlement?

Speaking as a spinster here--the "non-tingly" matters appear to be more important in the long run. But it seems a pity to begin a marriage so cold-bloodedly.

I know I would feel like crap if my GF talked about me like this on the web. I also know that I would feel even more like crap if my GF married me and secretly wasnt in love with me. I would definately rather she broke up with me than married me because I was safe.

and he is having a great relationship there.

"...and secretly wasn't in love with me."

I am confused, and nervous about something which is by any account, a VERY big and serious commitment. I realize my having doubts now isn't ideal, but as you yourself said, isn't it better I have them now as opposed to 10 years down the road?

If I didn't care about him or his feelings, I'd have accepted the beautiful ring he bought me and said to hell with what I feel now, I'll just get over it. I don't want to mislead him into thinking I am committed to the idea of marriage if I am not sure yet. He is a good enough man to understand that I need some time to commit to something this important and serious.

Shared sexual attitudes are good, shared values are terribly important, and an ability to just HANG together is vital. That tingly feeling really kinda becomes less of a factor when you are dealing with mortgage payments, your kids' school issues and scraping last night's hash off the Revere Wear.

Don' get me wrong--you have got to love someone to stay married. By that, I mean you have to be able to put up with them when they are less that a thrill a minute (in sickness and in health--remember?) You have to be able to laugh with them over stuff that is just too freaking strange, and you have got to be able to trust them without reservation.

Some days I know full well my husband could probably cheerfully plant me in the back garden, but I have never doubted that he loves me and will be there for me. He has days that he's human and he pisses me off, but I can't think of a single person on this planet that DOESN'T have days like that. We are human with all the frailties that it brings.

I ask you this, can you see yourself with him at an advanced age? Can you see yourself sitting in a rocking chair next to him and thinking "damn, this life has been a real hoot and I'm glad we chose each other"?

Can you see yourself being ok with a man who maybe would rather watch football on TV/ play Chutes and Ladders with the kids/ install a new hard drive in your computer rather than take you out dancing at your favorite club? Can you se yourself with a man who maybe would rather take your kids to ballgame rather than take YOU to Paris that day?

If you can't honestly answer yes, then maybe you want to consider if you are being fair in your expectations of what marriage and parenthood really can be about.

Other times it CAN be a whipped cream and chocolate kind of life. It ISN'T terribly mundane--but you have to be able to accept both aspects of it, IMO.

I don't mean to preach, but a lot of women (and men too!) have this mental image that married life is all about rampant sex on the beach and soap opera drama. I know a woman who has been wed to three different men, and has lived with twice that number, and she has never been able to be satisfied with any of them. No, it isn't about sex, it is about the need (dare I say addiction?) that she has for high drama. She's not a bad person, she's no slattern, she is just somebody that really has looked at long term relationships differently, and she has suffered for it.

Good luck. Please don't settle down because you want to have been married or want to get away from your family--do it for the right reasons and you'll be fine.




Laura
an old married fart

>I have never doubted that he loves me and will be there for me.<

I wrote our wedding vows. The hardest one to live up to has not been the ones we'd all think would be the toughest. The hardest one for me has been the fact that I promised to support him, no matter what. This means even when I don't necessarily agree. This means without reservation and with my whole being.

Laura, you are right. Marriage is not moonlight and roses. It's days of monotony punctuated with moments of sheer terror or sublime romance. :scared: For those with kids, it's got to be even more scary. I once read a writer referring to marriage as someone to "stir the oatmeal" with.

Love is what you've been through with someone else. After many years, the shared history ensures that your spouse is the only person on the planet you're going to sit up all night with when one of your friends or a family member dies/one of you loses a job/one of you is ill/you're having family problems. If that person isn't the first person you can turn to when the rug has been jerked out from under you, don't marry them. This is the important thing. Feelings come and go. Love is a decision.

Julie

Humans are like tuning forks. We seem to attract people on the same frequency as ourselves. This is evident mostly when people always seem to end up with the same type of partner every time. On the rare occassion that we attract someone different than ourselves there is always that uneasy feeling because we are out of our comfort zone.

me about my wife. Say yes to both, marry him.

1. Do you like his friends?

2. Can you see yourself sitting on a porch in 50 years with him?

Done

in many cultures marriage is considered a practical decision....and i tend to agree...

if you can fulfil your vows to each other and bring each other more happines.. then i dont see the problem

what the old people tell me is that the realtionship that is worth having is the one that develops into a slow burning fire no matter if it was started with a spark, hot coals or lighter fluid.

The point that I have taken from this is:

It's not where or what you start with, but where or what you end up with...

those old people sure are smart....

Half say wait until you find the right match, and the other half is saying marry this guy now. Either choice will probably make you miserable in the long run. It really sounds like you're having a terrific time with this guy right now. There are no problems. You're having fun, and you're enjoying each other's company, so why even bring up marriage? Just enjoy the life you're having with this guy.

If you find the spark in someone else, walk away. If he insists on marriage, then he does not respect your freedom, so walk away. He should be happy to be in a relationship with woman who does not want to restrict his freedom to walk away, and he should happy to grant you that same freedom.

Your problem aint the spark. Your problem is with marriage. You don't want to be tied down.

I wouldn't go so far as to apply it directly to the OP, but I've been going around for a few years thinking that marriage is vastly overrated.

>I've been going around for a few years thinking that marriage is vastly overrated.<

When it's great, there's nothing better. When it's not so great, things suck. One is making an investment for the future, not the present, when one says "I do." Both parties have to believe and be dedicated to that investment.

Just like every other endeavor in life -- you get out of it what you put into it. It's also good to choose the right person to embark on it with.

Julie

But it's not for everyone.

that the whole relationship should turn on something as ephemral as "chemistry", "tingly feelings" or as an old friend calls it, "napalm". From my own perspective and those of my friends, long married, long single, multi-married and long divorced, this whole "I love you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you", smells like nothing more than a cop-out. It's someone looking for an excuse to reject an otherwise totally suitable person, when no other rational reason exists. And it's not because the other person has any crippling defects of any sort, it's because the person in question either doesn't want to be honest enough with themselves about their issues with marriage in general or they're just adrenaline junkies, looking for higher highs in, excitement, uncertainty, mystery, unreachability and other destructive elements, and think that respect, appreciation, support, honest communication and so on are dull and boring.

There have been far too many relationships based on "napalm", that have been ruinously destructive to myself and others to count. Chasing adrenaline "chemistry" highs has caused too many other addictions, lies, betrayals, depressions, divorces, and other crimes against real love.

A love that is real, solid, and trustworthy is a pearl beyond price. "Napalm" doesn't seem to be more than a device to sell movies and romance novels.

End Note: Why napalm? According to my old friend, "It comes in low and fast, so you don't see it coming. It hits hard and ignites on impact. It burns hot, fast and for a long time. And finally, it sticks to anything!"

I have recieved the dreded "I love you, but I'm not IN LOVE with you" speech(from my girl of seventeen years)
and damn you sure summed it up.

and sexual chemistry/physical compatibility. Wanting to be touched, enjoying being held, having decent sex, is not "napalm" which will leads to destruction. It's what differentiates marriage from friendship.

I am in no position to know the OP's experience of her situation, of course. Only she can make that call.

Tingles are short lived.
Looks like you have a friend a lover and a cushy life waiting for you...
I say give it a try..
Shit as a straight man i wanna marry him lol..

Someone better might come along. :sarcasm:

At least from marriage.

If you feel nothing, NOTHING, 90% of the time he kisses you NOW, and it sometimes bothers you when he goes to hug you, how in the world are you going to last a year/two/twenty years from now?

People need affection--that they *like*.

Oh sweet jeebus, don't marry this guy right now. You don't want to cheat on him when you find someone you *do* feel tingly about. You don't want to cheat yourself by secretly thinking you could do better.
I'd agree with others who suggest just waiting. I definitely would not escalate the relationship.

I don't believe I'm saying this, either, because a six figure salary on a good looking, wonderful acting man would make me weep tears of joy.

it could be hormones that is affecting the chemistry part.


I'm not saying that's what it is but when you hit that stage and your hormones are all over the map the sexual appetite is affected.


Good Luck and don't do anything you're unsure of.

From the way it's written, I think it's a safe bet the OP is younger than that.

to marry the guy if you aren't in love with him. I love my brother too, but I don't wanna marry him. edit: I'm saying that as a way to say there are many differnt shades and types of love that you can have for another person. You might simply just love him as a good friend, but not as a life-partner.

If you don't feel anything when you two are physically affectionate, then you will grow to resent it, even the quick hugs and kisses. And if he's smart, he will eventually figure it out that you don't love him as much as he apparently loves you. It might take him a year, 10 years, depending on how long you can keep up the pretense. But if he's all that you say, then he will eventually know.

Do this man a favor and let him go find someone who will love him. Keep waiting for someone you will really enjoy. Economic safety is important, but it is not the only reason to get married.

And your kids might come out a little strange too.

person", when the "tingliness" wears off you might see for the first time the "human being" that you thought you loved but may not after the "tingliness" wears off. some say that if romeo and juliette had lived long enough and their relationship had lasted long enough they would have been throwing dishes at each other at some point.

but..whatever you decide for your life, may it be the right decision for you.

:-)

My 1st wife i was "in love with". We had super hot passion. I got all those tingly feelings loss of sleep etc. But or relationship in practice was crap. Jealousy, fear anger, the whole nine yards. While there was passion there was no real sanity.

My 2nd wife i had feelings similar to yours. I cared deeply, but did not have the same intense passion. I avoided marriage because i felt something was missing. I did end up marrying her due to the fact she showed me i could trust her too the hilt all the way on any issue. We have been married for over 10yrs, and though i have never had those intense tingly type feelings i have a love that goes far deeper. It may not have the intense skin crawling feel, it does have a devotion that runs deeper than any ocean.

Also passion does not last and will fade after some time. It is best imo to look for the deeper(real) love that we are capable of.

I also believe many confuse passion for real love. Passion fades even though original feelings may be more intense. Real love grows, and while it may not be the same intense feeling it's power goes beyond passion.

I agree with you, but I don't think that when wife #2 kisses you, you feel nothing, or that when wife #2 goes to hug you, you get irritated.

The OP, IMO, is basically saying she has NO romantic feelings for this guy.

Would your opinion change, after reading her post #41 above?

...and I love it...

He has been there with me when the babies were puking on the floor and on the bedding we just changed.

He has been there for me when I was sick and I for him...

He has been there sorting out sock drawers so I could throw away all the mismatches...

He and I have sat outside reading or working together...

The tingly feeling was fleeting...but our love is still growing....

one not related to romance. It might be: "Do I choose my own fate, or is my fate chosen for me? Is this a direction I choose for myself, or am I doing this because this wonderful person wants it?"

In any case, the path to the answer leads through the heart, perhaps guided by a therapist.

You and the guy together. Then my perfect advice will follow and both of you will live happily ever after.

If you are someone who NEEDS to get married... and will settle for nothing less in life, then maybe you should suck it up and marry this man. He seems like a good guy, plus he would probably make a good father and husband. Its really hard to say whether you could ever find another person that could be a good husband, good father, and love you the way you say he loves you.

That being said... don't get married.

Think about it this way for a minute... if you're having doubts now, how many will you have after spending the rest of your life with this person. People change (and never the way you want them to either) and the things that don't spark for you now will only continue to eat away at you over time.

Also, if he really is "in love" with you the way you say he is, doesn't he notice that you're not in love with him the same way?? If he really knew your feelings would he still want to marry you? ... hoping that you will eventually be "in love" ?? If you do really care about this man, then wouldn't you want HIM to be happy the rest of his life? If you're not "in love" with him, then how can YOU be the one to make him happy forever? Doesn't he deserve someone that loves him as much as he loves them?

As far as your own feelings go... Can you find someone else that makes you feel that spark? Maybe. Can you find someone that you can be "in love" with forever? Maybe. Will you forever regret it if you don't at least try to find that special love? YES!

There is nothing wrong with going off to find your own answer without him. You may regret giving him up, but if you aren't "in love" with him, then it will never work as well as it could with someone else. And again, think about his feelings... He deserves someone who is in love with him too.

Just my two cents... maybe I'm just jaded from getting married when I probably shouldn't have... but I can tell you that now I have found someone now that ALWAYS gives me that tingly feeling, it IS possible!

of the chase, per se. If he's always available and you don't have to work to win him, maybe that's not really satisfying to you.

In my first marriage, I married someone who I loved but with whom I was not "in love". I always resented the missing part, and our relationship ultimately ended in part because of this. However, as many posters stated, this "tingly" feeling goes away over time. Therefore, even if you find someone with whom you would have it, it probably wouldn't be there forever. I wonder if you would then feel the need to end the relationship when the feeling went away.

I don't know what the answer is except that I think that there are some people who always need the thrill of a new relationship to be happy. (This may not be the case for you, but I thought that I should mention it.) I personally thinnk that these people would probably be happiest to not get married.

Good luck in figuring it out!

Never marry someone you can live WITH, marry someone you can't live without. This guy, as nice as he is and as right as he may be for some, is wrong for you.

As for your "is it wrong..." question, it's wrong only if you plan on taking him for a financial ride. Otherwise, it's not wrong, it's just stupid.

Do not listen to those who chastise you because you've got it good and want more - anything less than the sort of love that makes you tingle in a marriage will eventually lead to a life full of regret, acrimony and disappointment.

I'll bet that you already knew every single thing I've written about this and just wanted to hear someone else say it to you. Okay, I will. Do NOT marry this guy.

twice as convinced as I was before reading it, if that's at all possible. DO NOT MARRY THIS GUY.

But you already knew that.

Sorry friesianrider, to be a busybody, but I don't think everyone is seeing this, which I think clarifies the issue a lot.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=4492839&mesg_id=4493037

"I practically feel nothing 90% of the time when he kisses me. When he tries to hug me or kiss me or touch me, sometimes it almost bothers me (or annoys me). I feel like a horrible person obviously, because he just wants to kiss/hug me to show me he loves me, but it bothers me sometimes. It's almost like I've lost interest in the relationship, while at the same time realizing that he is SO good to me and loves me like no one has before. "

Are all you people suggesting she marry him reading this?

If your fiancee said that about you, would you feel good marrying that person?

Friesianrider, I hope things work out for you whatever you choose. I just hope you follow your heart instead of your head.

" When I think back to relationships I've had where I feel that "spark" and that nutty, crazy love, all of the men were cheaters or otherwise very bad for me. I'm probably doomed to destroy every good relationship I have because there's something wrong with me."

The lady needs to take some time and really look into her psyche, with the help of a good therapist. There's a reason in her past why the "bad boys" turn her on and the good ones leave her cold. She needs to address this if she ever wants to have a good marriage.

I'd also recommend the book- "Women Who Love Too Much" by Robin Norwood-- an oldie but goodie that really explains why so many of us-- and I'm a recovering "bad boy addict" myself-- tend to make these choices-- and suggests ways to get out of the cycle.