Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

So just how hard IS Rocket Science?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:14 PM
Original message
So just how hard IS Rocket Science?
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
1. Beats me
If you don't get into orbit, put a bigger engine on it. Leave the coming back part to the landing scientists.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. It's pretty much this hard
Rockets work on thrust.

How is thrust generated?

Thrust is a mechanical force which is generated through the reaction of accelerating a mass of gas, as explained by Newton's third law of motion. The gas or working fluid is accelerated to the rear and the engine and aircraft are accelerated in the opposite direction. To accelerate the gas, we need some kind of propulsion system. We will discuss the details of various propulsion systems on some other pages. For right now, let us just think of the propulsion system as some machine which accelerates a gas.

From Newton's second law of motion, we can define a force F to be the change in momentum of an object with a change in time. Momentum is the object's mass m times the velocity V. So, between two times t1 and t2, the force is given by:

F = ((m * V)2 - (m * V)1) / (t2 - t1)

If we keep the mass constant and just change the velocity with time we obtain the simple force equation - force equals mass time acceleration a

F = m * a

If we are dealing with a solid, keeping track of the mass is relatively easy; the molecules of a solid are closely bound to each other and a solid retains its shape. But if we are dealing with a fluid (liquid or gas) and particularly if we are dealing with a moving fluid, keeping track of the mass gets tricky. For a moving fluid, the important parameter is the mass flow rate. Mass flow rate is the amount of mass moving through a given plane over some amount of time. Its dimensions are mass/time (kg/sec, slug/sec, ...) and it is equal to the density r times the velocity V times the area A. Aerodynamicists denote this parameter as m dot (m with a little dot over the top).

m dot = r * V * A
Note: The "dot" notation is used a lot by mathematicians, scientists, and engineers as a symbol for "d/dt", which means the variable changes with a change in time. For example, we can write Newton's second law as either

F = d(mv)/dt or F = (mv)dot
So "m dot" is not simply the mass of the fluid, but is the mass flow rate, the mass per unit time.

Since the mass flow rate already contains the time dependence (mass/time), we can express the change in momentum across the propulsion device as the change in the mass flow rate times the velocity. We will denote the exit of the device as station "e" and the free stream as station "0". Then

F = (m dot * V)e - (m dot * V)0

A units check shows that on the right hand side of the equation:

mass/time * length/time = mass * length / time^2

This is the dimension of a force. There is an additional effect which we must account for if the exit pressure p is different from the free stream pressure. The fluid pressure is related to the momentum of the gas molecules and acts perpendicular to any boundary which we impose. If there is a net change of pressure in the flow there is an additional change in momentum. Across the exit area we may encounter an additional force term equal to the exit area Ae times the exit pressure minus the free stream pressure. The general thrust equation is then given by:

F = (m dot * V)e - (m dot * V)0 + (pe - p0) * Ae

Normally, the magnitude of the pressure-area term is small relative to the m dot-V terms.

Looking at the thrust equation very carefully, we see that there are two possible ways to produce high thrust. One way is to make the engine airflow rate (m dot) as high as possible. As long as the exit velocity is greater than the free stream, entrance velocity, a high engine airflow will produce high thrust. This is the design theory behind propeller aircraft and high-bypass turbofan engines. A large amount of air is processed each second, but the air velocity is not changed very much. The other way to produce high thrust is to make the exit velocity very much greater than the incoming velocity. This is the design theory behind pure turbojets and turbojets with afterburners. A moderate amount of airflow is accelerated to a high velocity in these engines. If the exit velocity becomes very high, there are other physical processes which become important and affect the efficiency of the engine. These effects are described in detail on other pages at this site.

There is a simplified version of the general thrust equation that can be used for turbine engines. The nozzle of a turbine engine is usually designed to make the exit pressure equal to free stream. In that case, the pressure-area term in the general equation is equal to zero. The thrust is then equal to the exit mass flow rate times the exit velocity minus the free stream mass flow rate times the free stream velocity.

F = (m dot * V)e - (m dot * V)0

Since the exit mass flow rate is nearly equal to the free stream mass flow rate, and the free stream is all air, we can call the mass flow rate through the engine the engine airflow rate.

F = (m dot)eng * (Ve - V0)

We can further simplify by absorbing the engine airflow dependence into a more useful parameter called the specific thrust. Fs Specific thrust only depends on the velocity change across the engine.

Fs = F /(m dot)eng = (Ve - V0)

There is a different simplified version of the general thrust equation that can be used for rocket engines. Since a rocket carries its own oxygen on board, the free stream mass flow rate is zero and the second term of the general equation drops out.

F = (m dot * V)e + (pe - p0) * Ae

We have to include the pressure correction term since a rocket nozzle produces a fixed exit pressure which in general is different than free stream pressure. There is a useful rocket performance parameter called the specific impulse Isp, which is similar to the specific thrust of a turbine engine, that eliminates the mass flow dependence in the analysis.

Isp = Veq / go

where Veq is the equivalent velocity, which is equal to the nozzle exit velocity plus the pressure-area term, and g0 is the gravitational acceleration.

For both rockets and turbojets, the nozzle performs two important roles. The design of the nozzle determines the exit velocity for a given pressure and temperature. And because of flow choking in the throat of the nozzle, the nozzle design also sets the mass flow rate through the propulsion system. Therefore, the nozzle design determines the thrust of the propulsion system as defined on this page. You can investigate nozzle operation with our interactive nozzle simulator.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Are you the guy from Numb3rs?
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. No, but I did take a stats minor on my Ph.D.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Is that required to be a moderator at DU?
(Statistics is the only class I've ever had to re-take~!) :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yes
KSA's-DU Moderator

1) Ability to analyze occurrences of troll behavior.

2) Ability to manage programs that produce, analyze, and disseminate disruptive posting statistics and projections.

3) Ability to analyze conservative behavior.

4) Ability to use information technology for programs that humiliate Republicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Fox Mulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. You know...
I was just going to say that.

:silly:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
billyskank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. So you see
rocket science isn't actually rocket science. :7
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DS1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. No thanks, I've got my own interactive simulator
When, it's not even a simulator :D
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
northzax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. so it's really quite simple, is what you're saying?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. spy on NASA like the chinese did
save billions of dollars and years in development time.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Monkey see Monkey Do Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
11. Well, it's not brain surgery.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. ...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. You're right, it isn't
This is brain surgery:

Alternative names
Craniotomy; Surgery - brain; Neurosurgery

Definition

Brain surgery treats lesions of the brain and its surrounding structures through an opening (craniotomy) in the skull (cranium).

Description

The hair on part of the scalp is shaved. The scalp is cleansed and prepared for surgery. An incision is made through the scalp and a hole is drilled through the skull. A piece of the skull is removed (usually temporarily) and the surgery is performed, after which the bone is replaced and secured in place.

Indications

Brain surgery may be needed to treat:

* brain tumors
* bleeding (hemorrhage) or blood clots (hematomas) from injuries (subdural hematoma or epidural hematomas)
* weaknesses in blood vessels (cerebral aneurysms)
* arteriovenous malformations (AVM; abnormal blood vessels)
* damage to tissues covering the brain (dura)
* pockets of infection in the brain (brain abscesses)
* severe nerve or facial pain (such as trigeminal neuralgia or tic douloureux)
* trauma to the skull and repair of skull fractures

Risks

Risks for any anesthesia are:

* reactions to medications
* problems breathing

Risks for any surgery are:

* bleeding
* infection

Additional risks of brain surgery are:

* injury to brain tissue
* injury to blood vessels
* nerve or muscle paralysis or weakness
* loss of mental functions (memory, speech, understanding)

Expectations after surgery

The results depend greatly on the underlying disease being treated, the general health of the patient, the extent of the procedure and the surgical techniques employed.

Convalescence

The recovery time varies from 1 to 4 weeks. Full recovery may take up to 8 weeks.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. I did that to myself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Redstone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. Depends. Fluid Dynamics is REALLY hard; so are Materials Design and
Propulsion; but I don't suspect the painting part takes too many PHDs.

Redstone
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. It ain't rocket science anymore....
Seriously.

The basic concepts were worked out 80 years ago; the big improvements since then have been in materials and propellants. Today, it's possible to build a rocket that will reach space with less than $1000 worth of materials and some good know how. (But don't put guidance on the rocket - that causes men from various Agencies to come visit and be very suspicious.... Once a rocket is guided, it is technically a missile.)

I have friends in Colorado Springs who build serious rockets - their next concept is basically a jump-jet. It's not terribly difficult anymore - it's just good mechanical engineering and mathematics taught in undergrad level classes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-31-05 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. we might actually have to change the expression to
it's not like managing FEMA or anything...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 13th 2024, 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » The DU Lounge Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC