Did I Do Okay ? Thoughts?

Okay, so in an entertainment disscussion board I frequent the subject of the Dixie Chicks was raised. There was the usual preaching from the "I personally don't agree with everything Bush does either but he is the "duly elected president of the United States, and should be totally respected simply because the 'majority' of the people elected him," crowd. Then there was the predicatble response from the crowd, I think Stephanie Miller," would label as the "deliverance wing, of the Republican party:" "If those Dixie chicks don't like America, they can damn well leave it, and if they don't voluntairly agree to do so, we ought to deport their skinny ass butts." Then a handful of "They should just entertain. Simply Shut up and Sing" crowd chimed in. Also there was one response that stated we as Americans simply blame Bush himself for far too much. I am paraphrasing a bit here on all of them, but you get the general idea.

Also a number of people, did leap to the Chicks defense.

This was my personal response. What do you think? How did I do?:


America was a country founded on challenging leadership.

My lord, if John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Ben Franklin all believed we should respect a government official just because he is a government official, there would be no United States of America. We would all still be singing "God Save the Queen." No offense to the Brits here meant. I just mean, we would never have had our own independence.

Read some things on the philosophy of government, those who believe we should not criticize the President, please? The Federalist Papers, the Magna Carta, Locke, Hobbes, Common Sense, the Declaration of Independence, are some of my suggestions! Or how about some books on the history of Germany and the path to World War II?

Some of these long respected tomes, teach us that not only DO WE HAVE THE RIGHT to QUESTION OUR GOVERNMENT, when we think our nation is being led down the wrong path, but the MORAL OBLIGATION AND DUTY as a citizen to do so.

The PRESIDENT is not above the people or the law for that matter. He does not get a pass from criticism simply because he was "elected."

By the way, I know the dictator comparisons, are sometimes over used, and sometimes used unfairly, and often insensitively, and inaccurately. Just for some historical perspective, however, some of the totalitarian regimes in history, actually started out as a group of electorally chosen public officials.

The Nazi Party actually won some elections in 1930's Germany.

As for an example in U.S. History- John Adams, even though he was one of the founding fathers' of U.S. Democracy , blew his Presidential credibility by signing into law the "Alien and Sedition" acts. For all intents and purposes making it against the law to criticize him, or his decisions. The main reason, most believe he did so was because Alexander Hamilton was poking a big stick at Adams' colossal ego. A president's ego or feelings should not matter more, than a citizen’s right to dissent. Said, Alien and Seditions acts were removed shortly after and thankfully are no longer law, in the United States.

So therefore, I respectfully submit for your thoughtful consideration, that as far as elections are concerned, they have never been a 100 percent viable guarantee, in and of themselves, that officials won't abuse the power the public has entrusted them with.

Only the protected and continued right to dissent after said officials are in office, offers the strongest hope of at least trying to keep them honest and holding them to their duties and promises. And even that hasn't always worked.

As for 2004, I have some serious questions that for me personally at least, I would like to see answered about how the election itself was conducted. Read the new Rolling Stone article by Robert Kennedy, Jr. about what allegedly, note I am emphasizing allegedly here, went on in Ohio and several other key electoral states like New Mexico and Florida in 2004.

How can we find out, however, if Kennedy's claims, which he is not the first or only one to raise, hold any basis in validity?

There should be, IMHO, a congressional investigation into such serious allegations, considering they deal with such a fundamental right as voting, to determine whether they are true or false.

I have little hope if any, however, that we will see that happen. Since all our elected officials including some of the Dems, seem to be more concerned with protecting their own piece of the pie, rather than doing their job of standing up for the people by ensuring the laws of this country are being upheld! I'm none to pleased with most of the Dems right now either, including Kerry.

All I am saying is, IMHO, our right to vote should be held sacrosanct and if there is any question, on either side, they should sure as heck, find away to assure that the voting is as unquestionably accurate as it can possibly be. If I am being told, I can't even believe in the power of my vote any more then that just is not right.

The Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution, and historical precedent, tell us that neither the President of the US, nor its Congress for that matter, are now, or ever have been, or ever should be sovereign beings, that cannot be questioned or criticized. They are most certainly not GOD. That supreme being who is the only entity above criticism, and that is only for people who are believers, and then even some Catholic Priests will even tell you, you have the right to question, and God will understand.

The president needs to earn respect, the respect of the governed, which are technically his bosses, not be given it out of hand. As for him being blamed unfairly? Harry Truman said "the buck stops here," and George W. Bush, himself, declared proudly and loudly, "I'm the DECIDER." So whom exactly should I blame when those decisions don't seem to be quite working out for the best?

I love the Constitution far more than I will ever love any leader Democrat or Republican. It saddens me to think that even one American, IMHO, would hold any president's or any other political officials', "assumed" right to unquestioned respect, as more important than the legally documented right of dissent, which has been granted to the citizens of the U.S. by its Constitution and upheld by hundreds of Supreme Court decisions, and years of other legal precedent.

The exact same Constitution that is the basis for all the freedoms those of us lucky enough to be U.S. citizens currently enjoy. Also this is the very same document, that has been held up for over 200 years as an example and bastion of freedom, for millions of democracy advocates worldwide.

The beloved Constitution of the U.S., IMHO, seems to in jeopardy, of being trampled to the dust more and more, and very few seem to care. It is like so few even understand the words written in it anymore, let alone the Bill of Rights it contains. I'm no longer even sure that many know the true purpose for its being written in the first place.

It seems to me we are all too concerned about being "politically correct," whatever the hell that means, and not damaging our fellow debaters' "feelings" even when standing up for the most basic of our Constitutional and Human Rights.

Sorry to go on so but it just personally makes me sad and yes even more than a little hopeless. So few seem to remember the Constitution or the sacrifices made by our ancestors like Adams, (initially at least), Jefferson, Franklin, Frederick Douglas, Susan B. Anthony, and yes all those soldiers who have given their very lives, to win and protect the right of those who want to protest government actions they feel unjust, to do so. It will never cease to surprise me how little our right as citizens to do that is respected or even exercised any more.

And by the way, back on topic, art has always been one of the most fundamentally recognized ways through out human history, as a medium of freedom of expression. People protested the Holocaust with art, People protested the Vietnam War with art. Song lyrics, though not always, brilliant or tasteful, have always been recognized as a form of artistic expression. So the Dixie Chicks are not breaking some "entertainment" rule, by using their artistic medium to express their opinion. They are simply following in a long line of predecessors. Bob Dylan, the Beatles, Peter, Paul and Mary, Steven Spielberg, Van Goh, Kafka, Tolstoy, Dickens, have all used their own artistic mediums to voice dissent with their leaders and the state of the world in general. Not comparing the quality of any one's works here, just the principal of art as a form of dissent.

Also another historical tidbit, one of the first groups, the Napoleons, Stalins, Hitlers, and Mussolinis of this world sought to repress, were the artists. They are traditionally number 2, right after the intelligentsia.

History, its not just about memorizing dates, or analyzing the battle strategies of Antitem or Bunker Hill. It is also about studying cause and effect.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

End of Rant. :

I actually felt like ending it with "I am Liberal. Hear Me Roar. Deal With It. Neener, Neener" :rofl: but I refrained.

*Note added for DU. I still basically respect Kerry, and do realize he must have felt like he was between a rock and a hard place, in terms of getting a Republican controlled Congress and Supreme Court, to actually rule in his favor in any would be election challenge. I mean we all know what happened in Gore's case but IMHO, he could have been stronger in making a case about it to the American People. The same with the rest of the Dems on all our issues. I think we need to be stronger as a whole on being the dissenting party and loyal opposition. JMHO. I love and respect most of them, but just because they can't win at this point, doesn't mean they should be silent about what matters most right?" Again JMHO. Also I am personally pretty convinced the election was stolen, but I still believe the issue needs to be tried in a court of law. I know dream on. ;)*

Fucking brilliant and spot on! ;)

Good job! :applause:

:hug: I haven't really debated in a long time, so I was feeling a little rusty and unsure of myself.

. . . define our nation. I deeply share your beliefs. :) :hug:

Bravo, well done....

question from the Freeptards always makes me want to either break out laughing hysterically or start sobbing uncontrollaby, about how woefully ignornat some people can be about what "freedom" actually means. I never know which to go with, so I usually end up somewhere in between. :shrug:

Thanks, for the support. :hug:

A nice piece of writing...

I have only had one response there and that was from a fellow liberal. She said she agreed with 90 percent of what I wrote, but wondered why I kept editing so much?

I did edit several times, because I wanted to try and lead with logic, rather than raw emotion, which was where my inital attempts were coming from.

From some of the responses to other Dixie Chicks supporters, though I still don't think the other side gets it.

Some of the more moderate Republicans try to defend their statements, by saying well I didn't mean you can't criticize at all, just that you should respect him because he is the President. Well first of all that is not how they phrased their initial argument.

I also don't think they quite get that if even the most legitimate of criticism is dismissed and labeled as "disrespectful," that is fundamentally challenging the right to dissent.

Most of the time, I don't even bother trying to have discourse, with them, because it is like :banghead:, but last night since I had just finished reading the Rolling Stone Article, before I got on-line, I just wasn't in the mood to just let it pass.

Thanks!

:hug:

Your thinking is right on the money, IMHO......

I thank you for saying this so well, and out loud!

:patriot:

:kick:

California Peggy. :hug:

but I'm afraid you lost most of them at "tomes."

But you did well. :thumbsup:

Plus I am willing to bet some of them, probably thought I was referring to the fictional character on "Lost", when I mentioned "Locke." :eyes: :rofl:

Thank you for support about the post. :hug:

I think as a "Neener, neener!" I would have ended it with this:

As one very respected Republican president stated so well:

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." ~ Theodore Roosevelt

Neener, Neener. If one of them ends up responding to my post over there, I think I will reply with that quote, and only that quote.

T. Roosevelt must be rolling over in his grave, about what is going on in the Repulican party these days.

Thank you for posting his quote here. hug:

I was reading an article earlier tonight that the Red Cross turned down $1 Million donation from the Chicks....

Read this:
But what bothers Maines the most, she says, is that the American Red Cross refused a $1 million donation from the Dixie Chicks in 2003.

‘‘It has nothing to do with being taken off of the radio,’’ says Maines, 31, by phone from New York. ‘‘It has to do with the absurdity of death threats and the absurdity of being so awful that people won’t even touch you. That the Red Cross won’t take a million-dollar check from you. How can the Red Cross turn away a million dollars for charity?’’

But it’s not as simple as that, responds national Red Cross spokesperson Julie Thurmond Whitmer in a prepared statement.

http://www.chieftain.com/life/1149229438/6

is very interesting and revealing.

So scary, :scared:, that the Dixie Chicks, have actually received death threats, just for exercising their Constitutionally guaranteed rights.

Thank you for posting about the article here. :hug:

I see some misplaced commas too, but the sentiment is right on the money. Good work!

My Freshman English Professor in the 1980's used to tell me he often loved the content of what I wrote but he begged me to please learn where to put the comma. I still struggle with them though even though I have tried studying the rules and committing them to memory.

Thank you for the support on the rant. :hug: