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Midway: June 4th, 1942

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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 04:26 PM
Original message
Midway: June 4th, 1942
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/midway/midway.htm

Call it my very own personal obsession: in the history of the world, there have been only 6 carrier to carrier battles.... Coral Sea, Midway, Eastern Solomons, Santa Cruz, Philipine Sea, and Leyte Gulf. And of these, only Midway could be called a war changing event.

And it hinged on the decision of one man... LCDR Wade McClusky, who decided to search away from Midway...

http://www.cv6.org/company/accounts/wmcclusky/

But the American fleet wouldn't have been anywhere near Midway if it weren't for the work of a team of codebreakers codenamed 'Station Hypo'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Station_Hypo

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Cruzan Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yeah, I was a Midway buff when I was a kid
I think it had something to do with the movie that came out in the 70's -- lot's of technical and historical flaws but still way cool to a kid. Anyway, after all these years I can still, among other things, name all the carriers: Enterprise, Hornet, Yorktown, Akagi, Kaga, Soryu, and Hiryu.
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Cruzan Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Oh, one other obscure thing I got obsessed about for a time was the
Kawanishi H8K2 Emily flying boat. It played some (very) minor roll in the battle but it was a way cool plane.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I prefer the SBD Douglas Dauntless
The champion aircraft carrier killer of all time...

(with dive brakes open...)


http://users.ev1.net/~spituch/Steve's%20Page/Model%20Aviation/Other%20Planes/dauntless.jpg

One is being restored near where I work...

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=+site:www.midwaysaircraft.org+Dauntless
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Arkham House Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
4. The Japanese came very close at Leyte--
--to inflicting a worse humiliation on the US Navy than Pearl Harbor itself...they were playing to an inside straight with a weak strategic position, and if not for the Japanese commander turning back at the last moment, had the mightiest battleship on Earth ready to destroy the US landings on Leyte, while Halsey was going in circles chasing a decoy fleet. Had that happened, it's just possible that the Japanese might have been able to negotiate a settlement that didn't involve "unconditional surrender", and while a disaster in the Philippines right before the US election probably wouldn't have defeated FDR, it could have weakened his position considerably...lots of "what-ifs" regarding that battle, some of them important...
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Admiral Kurita lost the battle...
By allowing himself to be fooled by his own prejuidices.

Having sacrificed two battleships at Suragao, and the carriers to the north (which Halsey was sinking), and having lost one of his own battleships (Musashi), Adm. Kurita had nothing between his 4 battleships and the American invasion transports but but 'Taffy Three', a group of 'escort carriers' (converted merchantman) and destroyers.

The carriers launched aircraft, dropping a mix of torpedoes, fragmentation bombs, and even depth charges and anti-infantry rockets... and when the planes were out of ammo, they went in and PRETENDED to attack. The destoyers closed into point blank range, firing torpedoes, 5" guns and even anti-aircraft machine guns...

Admiral Kurita was convinced that the Americans wouldn't show such bravery without good cause, and assumed that the good cause was reinforcements, probably Admiral Halsey's carriers. Without taking serious damage, and sinking one carrier and 4 destroyers, Admiral Kurita withdrew.
An American seaman, seeing the Japanese battleships turning around, allegedly said "Look, they're getting away!"

The Japanese had sacrificed what was left of thier Navy, only to have the Admiral lose nerve at the last minute.

(I served a tour of duty aboard USS Copeland, named after the commanding officer of the destroyer Samual B. Roberts, which had led the charge)
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Arkham House Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. My congratulations for serving on such a nobly named ship,,,
I just read a new book on that US stand in the strait, against such odds...I had tears in my eyes more than once. That was probably the most heroic moment in the Navy's history...
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors? nt
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Arkham House Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Yes--a genuinely great book...
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I just started it about a month ago. nt
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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. There was a lot of luck involved there...
Edited on Sun Jun-04-06 11:25 PM by Spider Jerusalem
a fortuitous squall that provided the cover needed to launch aircraft; and the superb leadership shown by Admiral Clifton Sprague under intense pressure in ordering the destroyer attack on the Japanese battle line (which succeeded in driving off the Yamato).

If Halsey had stayed on station in the San Bernardino Strait instead of haring off after the Japanese decoy force with not only his fleet carriers but also his battleships, the end result could have been a tactical as well as a strategic victory...IMO, Halsey is greatly overrated (Spruance was probably the best naval commander in the Pacific theatre).
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 07:17 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Halsey IS over-rated. But the sailors loved him.
My uncle died still angry on how Halsey got mustered out at the end of the war. He was looking forward to seeing Halsey make good on his promise to ride the Emperor's horse down the main street of Tokyo.

But, yes, with Halsey, it was a lot of style over substance.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Halsey did get what was left of the Japanese carrier fleet...
and didn't know it was a decoy. If he had left Task Force 34 behind (VADM Lee and the fast battleships) to 'cover' the Northern route (plus a carrier division, maybe?) it would have been a TOTAL victory.

As it was, the Japanese battle line would be finished off later, with IJN Yamato making her 'death ride' to Okinawa.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-04-06 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
9. I'm no expert, but I always found Midway interesting
the odds of spotting the enemy carriers in such a huge expanse of ocean are staggering

the initiative of many young Americans that day was just amazing--much like D-Day

And the American codebreakers played a key role throughout the war.
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driver8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
10. My father had orders to Midway Island and our family was moving there
with him. The Navy ended up closing Midway so we went to Guam, instead. We had to buy new bikes as they did not allow personally owned cars.
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MissMillie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
12. The Naval Station at Newport RI does a ceremony every year
to commemorate Midway, but it was cancelled this year. For the past 2 years in a row, I really enjoyed the festivities.

The kids from my son's NJROTC unit are the American Leagion Drill Team and Color Guard National Champions, and their instructor used to teach at the Naval War College there in Newport. He manages to get them to be invited to post the colors for the ceremony every year.

There's usually some form of play or presentation, always impeccably done, as a history lesson for the attendees. There's always something to learn

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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
13. Good post!
I didn't realize there were only 6 carrier to carrier battles.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Some people don't count Leyte Gulf...
since the Japanese carriers had only a handful of planes; they were 'bait' to pull the American carriers out of the way so the battleships could engage.

So that leaves...
1. Coral Sea: a draw. US lost USS Lexington, the Japanese lost IJN Shoho, and had IJN Shokaku and Zuikaku knocked out of action.

2. Midway

3. Eastern Solomons: "inconclusive". The Japanese lost one light carrier.

4. Santa Cruz: Japanese victory; USS Hornet sunk.

5. Philipine Sea: they didn't call it the 'Great Marianas Turkey Shoot' for nothing. American victory.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. And for those who prefer Battleship actions...
there were only 9 of those during WW2...

1. April 9, 1940 German battlecruisers Scharnhorst and Gneisenau vs. HMS Renown off Norway, indecisive

2. July 3, 1940 Oran, North Africa, British battleships HMS Valiant, Resolution, and battlecruiser HMS Hood against a French battleship squadron of Bretagne, Provence, Dunkerque and Strasbourg; British were trying to make sure the French didn't 'change sides'.

3. July 9th, 1940 Calabria: Italian Battleships Giulio Cesare and Conte di Cavour vs HMS Warspite, Royal Sovereign and Malaya. Warspite set a record for a 'war shot' by a battleship, scoring a hit at 26,000 yards.

4. May 24th, 1941 Denmark Strait: Bismark vs. HMS Prince of Wales and Hood. Hood sunk, both Bismark and Prince of Wales damaged.

5. May 27th, 1941 Bismark sunk by HMS King George V and Rodney.

6. November 8, 1942 Casablanca: USS Massachusetts exchanges fire with the Vichy French battleship Jean Bart anchored in the port.

7. November 14th, 1942 2nd Guadacanal: USS Washington and South Dakota vs IJN Kirishima, Kirishima sunk.

8. December 26th, 1943 North Cape (Battle of Boxing Day): HMS Duke of York sinks German battlecruiser Scharnhorst.

9. October 24th, 1944 Surigao Strait: USS Mississippi, Maryland, West Virginia, Tennessee, California and Pennsylvania (all but Mississippi Pearl Harbor survivors) destroy the IJN Fuso and Yamashiro in a action so one sided that Pennsylvania never got a chance to fire.

Then there were two times battleships got carriers: HMS Glorious was sunk off Norway on June 8th, 1940 by the German ships Scharnhorst and Gneisenau, and USS St. Lo on 25 October 1944 by IJN Yamato, Nagato, Haruna and Kongo.

There were also numerous 'smaller' actions, as cruisers and destroyers also 'duked it out' in action such as 1st Guadacanal, Santa Barbara Islands, River Plate, Java Sea (to name a handful).
VERY few battleships were sunk 'at sea' by aircraft. Prince of Wales, Repulse, Musashi, Yamato, Roma... easier to sink battleships in port (Tirpitz, Arizona, Oklahoma, Andrea Doria...)

Not a complete list, to be sure.
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Bassic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
16. The Americans also got one hell of a lucky break,
Detecting the Japanese fleet while avoiding detection themselves. Allowed to fully prepare a well coordinated attack without having to rush things.
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HawkerHurricane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-05-06 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. No arguement.
The list of lucky breaks would make a post as long as the original.

From memory...

1. Catupult trouble aboard one of the Japanese cruisers meant that the sector the Americans were in was searched late.
2. When the Americans were spotted, Adm. Nagumo was caught with his reserve aircraft armed for a shore strike, AND his Midway strike needing to land.
3. American torpedo planes, launched last, got to the carriers first, and pulled the Japanese fighter cover out of position.
4. The dive bombers from Enterprise and Yorktown arrived over the fleet at the same time in spite of being launched at diferent times.
5. When the dive bombers attacked, the Japanese had loaded planes on deck, planes below deck being loaded and fueled, AND the bombs from the canceled shore strike still lying out and around.
6. The submarine USS Nautilus was in perfect position to take advantage of the confusion of the air strike to 'finish off' the Soryu.

The only ways it could have been better would have been if
a. The torpedo planes had attacked together, with fighter cover... they were destroyed piecemeal, and only one of the three squadrons had cover.
b. If Nautilus had been in position to attack the undamaged Hiryu instead of the heavily damaged Soryu
and
c. If USS Hornet's dive bombers hadn't made a wrong turn toward Midway looking for the Japanese.

Winston Churchill said it best... "Brilliance shot with luck".
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