Do you think that Worf hates that his son is such a pansy?

For being such a bad ass he sure has one wuss ass son.

I always got the impression that other Klingons thought Worf a wuss for being in Starfleet. Maybe he identifies with the kid.

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But I don't think the movie ever revealed that Arwen was what, 2700 years old? She didn't look a day over 2600.

Damn! Them elves must have had some hella birth control.

The movie never went on to explain that Arwen was half-elven either. Only half elven have the choice to become mortal. Half elven being descendants of either Beren and Luthien or Tuor and Idril.

It was a great movie trilogy and I own all the expanded DVD's, but the movies tap maybe 5% of Tolkien's mythos.

Although I don't remember Tolkien ever really explaining why or how this could be. I think JRR was either drunk or just didn't care that the timeline didn't make much sense.

Silmarillion. You sort of have to read between the lines, but he basically says that Aragorn (and the other Rangers I think) is descendent form an old race of men who had much longer lives than what we (or other men in the book) have.

There's chronology in the appendix. Aragorn was Numenorean and a direct descendent of Elendil. Numenor was a great island between middle earth and the undying lands. Basically they were blessed by the gods. Sauron corrupted them, making them jealous of the Eldar's immortality leading to the downfall of Numenor. Elendil and his two sons, Isildur and Anárion escaped to middle earth.

Numenorians were long lived, about three times that of lesser men. Still, at the time of the Ring War, Aragorn was just 80, I think. I believe that he lived to 200.

If you want to know what happens to Aragorn and Arwen after the war, check out the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen in the first appendix.

And I think I never read the appendix. I'll read that for sure.

Another little known fact they didn't show in the film: Arwen is a very distant relative of Aragorn, being his first cousin sixty-three times removed. Aragorn's ancestor, Elros, the first King of Númenor, was Elrond's brother, and therefore her uncle. Well, I suppose if you go back 63 generations, we're all related.


The following was posted years ago on rec.arts.books.tolkien. I thought it was pretty damned funny.

Luthien vs. Arwen - Who was the better babe?

Posted by O. Sharp:

Let's start with Luthien... along with being the "fairest child of Elves or Men", the daughter of a Maia, and the most accomplished singer of all time, she also loved her man so much as to be willing to knock out her guards and leave home and face down Sauron and beat Sauron's sorry ass just to stand by him. She was willing to go with him straight to Thangorodrim itself, put one over on Morgoth(!), and even after all that still cared for him so much that she was willing to go to Mandos and talk the Valar into bringing Beren back to life. Let's face it: Luthien Tinuviel was one hot thoroughly accomplished scared-o-nothin' clever-as-hell broad.

Now, let's look at Arwen... According to Return of the King appendices A and B, Aragorn first met Arwen and fell in love with her in T.A. 2951 - but Arwen wouldn't even give him the time of day until twenty-nine years later. Her father, Elrond, made it clear that she wasn't gonna marry Aragorn unless he became the Ruler of Gondor and Arnor; and when Aragorn joined the Fellowship and went forth on the hopeless mission to overthrow Sauron, did Arwen help him, as Luthien helped Beren? No! She stayed at home and read magazines until the War was already down to the last gasp, and even then she refused to show up herself but just sent all of Aragorn's friends south to offer all the moral support instead! Oh, sure, once all the dirty work was already done, then she shows up - probably carried all the way there in a sedan chair by some sweating oafish admirers - to finally say, "Ohhhh, Aragorn! Now that you've become the king of several hundred thousand acres of prime real-estate and defeated all of our dire enemies, suddenly you look much more handsome", and in the blink of an eye she's all ready to say the hell with what Dad thinks and marry him. ...Put it all together and what have you got? A cheap, greedy, standoffish gold-digging trollop.

Luthien or Arwen? Come on! Stop kidding around. The "fairest child of Elves or Men" wins hands down. If you're going to give us a contest, at least make it a relatively fair one... like, say, the favorite "who-would-win" contest from last year:

Arwen -vs- Eowyn: Mud-Wrestling For The Hand of Aragorn! :)

Ps: I read the Silmarillion, so I at least new about the fact that Aragorn and Arwen are related. Although they are so far appart that it really isnt being related anymore, but yeah.

But 63 generations would imply 2^63 ancestors, i.e. 9.22E+18, over two billion billion!

It's pretty common for people exploring their family tree to start seeing the same individual appear in different branches provided they search back far enough, say ten generations or so.

Some geneticists believe that everybody on earth is at least 50th cousin to everybody else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_collapse

That's an interesting thought.

realized he was Dunedain.

The Encyclopedia of ARDA says:
Notes
1 In some editions of The Lord of the Rings, there's a statement at the end of Appendix A I (iii) that 'Aragorn indeed lived to be one hundred and ninety years old...' This is an error, and is corrected in later editions to read 'two hundred and ten years old'.

try to kick his ass and end up having their own served to them for breakfast.

A child actor so bad, he makes Jake "Star Wars Ep. 1" Loyd look like a miniature Ralph Fiennes.

Oh, he comes across all butch, but his heart is fabulous!

Damned if I know why he's such a little pansy. :shrug: I'm sure with enough effort we can blame Wesley for setting the wuss curve so high for the rest of the kids on the Enterprise D.

Read Wil Wheaton's blog sometime-he'll tell you the same thing.

He'll also tell you that even he thought Wesley was whiny.

Gotta keep with the stereotypes and all. :P

:wow:

Worf accepts his son even though he isn't tough and doesn't display traditional boy characteristics. That's just wrong. "Acceptance" is the devil's first foot in the door.