what makes a movie good or bad?

the "worst movie you ever paid for" thread got me thinking. Obviously this is very subjective. But I saw many movies listed on the thread that I thought were good or at least amusing or thought-provoking. Granted I probably have a higher threshhold for weirdness or obscurity than some people I know, but that whole thing made me curious.


By what standards do you judge a film?

Feel free to expound. This is intriguing.

And the weirder and more indie, the better, haha. (I'm a huge David Lynch fan, for example.)

There are a lot of other factors as well, though. Acting, story, writing, cinematography, etc.

I used to love Lynch - but now when I screen films that I used to find fsacinating, I always have a few more questions....

In some ways he is the master of the absurd - I still think that there are parts of Twin Peaks ( the series) and his films that are brilliant, but he seems to mine the same themes of lost innocence juxtaposed with violence and confusion over and over. And I don't really feel that I have a good understanding of why. And I would like to. Certainly there are other directors who mine themes - Scorses and Altman, Kurosawa, Wenders,Wertmuller, but for some reason Lynch is more elusive.

That is probably what makes The Straight Story so interesting - it is so different than many of his other films. If you have some film crit insight about this, that would be great.

But Lynch is deeply indebted to this rather archaic school of filmmaking and theory.

It would take me a long time to spell out the hallmarks and history and what-not of Expressionism so I'll just link you to the Wikipedia article on it. (Also, my last film class was several years ago, and I don't want to forget anything important! (Minored in Cinema Studies in college.))

This illuminates a little of what Lynch is trying to do, but as far as why he himself is particularly fixated on this style of filmmaking -- well, your guess is as good as mine. As you noted, though, most filmmakers (indeed, most artists) return to the same themes over and over again. Such is the nature of the human mind, I suppose...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Expressionism

(I should also note that I haven't seen The Straight Story yet, so I'm not entirely sure how it fits into his ouvre.)

than in film-making. My husband was a film student - but I'm more aware of literary stuff and art theory. But, Lynch was an art student, so that makes sense.

added: I have seen Cabinet and Nosferatu and Metropolis and M ( my husband loves them) and I really like noir, but I didn't know what the original genre was called. That does explain a bit about Lynch's love of atmosphere. (and his linking of American camp/cultural fantasy with lots of dada, I guess)

Thanks!

I like a movie with a great plot, likable characters, and great acting. Who doesn't lol but I will expand on this. A great comedy to me you laugh about even when you haven't watched it. "Springtime for Hitler" from the Producers is something that I laugh my ass about even when I haven't watched the film in a while. Dramas and more "serious" movies work the same way but only what moved you about them is still in your mind.

I'm crazy about things like

Batman Begins
X-Men (1,2 & 3)
Spiderman
etc..etc.

of nudity.

No wonder why I saw a deluxe edition of it when I was at Circuit City yesterday.

c'mon now. ;)

minute details make the movie....that and scenery and architecture.




Tikki

it's funny. By that criterion, I should have liked Memento. I wanted to like it from a conceptual point of view. But I hated it. It was a great idea that left me cold and irritated.

:rofl: and we actually saw it in Canada. In a theater. What were we thinking.

It's all about characters for me. And this applies to literature as well as film.

As long as the characters are "real" (true to themselves) and interesting, I'll usually get sucked into something whether the film is an Elizabethan period piece or a sci-fi/horror extravaganza.

As much as I appreciate things like mise en scene and lighting and cinematography and and plot twists and all the other fun and fancy trappings of a film, the characters are really what it all boils down to. If I don't care about them, all the budget in the world won't save the film for me; likewise, if I do care about them, I will always forgive amateur editing, lighting, minor plot holes and the like.

n/t

there is a lot of subjectivity to film choices, and for me, one of the answers is if it stands up to multiple viewings.

I also love great characters. If you find a character that stands out, even in a minor film, you have a film that is going to last. An instance of this is one of my very favorite films, Blazing Saddles. It came out in 1974, and a group of us went to a theatre to see it. Obviously, all of the characters were over the top--that was part of what the film was all about. But what intrigued me at first was Gene Wilder as the Waco Kid. Wilder played him with a sort of deadpan look, and was the straight man on a lot of the jokes. He cracked me up.

There is usually a character in most good films that is like that--someone who isn't the lead so much, but someone who helps push the film forward. Another good example is Stir of Echoes. While all the attention was on Kevin Bacon and the kid, I thought Kathryn Erbe as the mother was one of the best characters to be around in a long time. She was faced with some very scary things, but she kept her dignity and was a fighter.

Other than character, I have to look at a film from the total of the elements--the whole picture, so to speak. You could have the best plotted film in the world, the best actors in the world, and then you could go ahead and spoil it with loud, glaring music. Or the sound editing could be messed up, or the art direction could be inferior.....so if all the elements work together, than I consider it a good movie.

Please... What is up with Hollywood? Did everyone there run out of creativity? Why make a remake of a tv show that flopped in the 50s, 60, up to the 90s? Then mis cast it with someone you would never use as the lead?

OK..from now on, its films from another country. At least they don't make movies out of lame tv shows. Believe it or not, the Koreans are making some of the best films these days, and all you have to do is read the subtitles. Other Asian films too..so many are so good!!

Here are SOME good examples:

MY LITTLE BRIDE (Korea) Heart warming


My SASSY GIRL (Korea) Funny



ONG BAK (Tony Jaa, the best martial artist since Bruce Lee)(Thailand)


KAMIKAZE GIRLS (JAPANESE)Delightful


UZUMAKI (JAPANESE)Scary as hell!


DENSHA OTOKO (Train man) (Japanese) Heart warming and funny



HOUSE OF FLYING DAGGERS (Chinese) Fantastic!


HERO (Chinese) Also Fantastic

film-makers as well. You just have to look a little harder to find them. Thanks for the Asian film round-up - I've not heard of some of those. When I think about wonderful films like Amelie, or others I have listed....

I think two problems with Hollywoon are money/cost of films and "stars" and writing by committee and focus group. Seems like you lose a lot of creativity that way.

Here's a list I stole somewhere, the point being that since there are 100s of wonderfully imaginative and thoughtful foreign (and American films), why aren't new American films better?

Amores Perros..... Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu
Andrei Rublev..... Andrei Tarkovsky
Ararat..... Atom Egoyan
Belle de Jour..... Luis Bunuel
A Better Tomorrow..... John Woo
The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant..... Rainer Werner Fassbinder
The Blue Kite..... Tian Zhuangzhuang
Chungking Express..... Wong Kar-Wai
Chunhyang..... Kwon-taek Im
The Conformist ..... Bernardo Bertolucci
The Crime of Padre Amaro..... Carlos Carrera
Diva..... Jean-Jacques Beineix
Fallen Angels..... Wong Kar-Wai
Farewell, My Concubine..... Chen Kaige
Fox and His Friends..... Rainer Werner Fassbinder
The Garden of the Finzi-Continis..... Vittorio De Sica
Green Snake..... Tsui Hark
Hero..... Zhang Yimou
Hiroshima, Mon Amour..... Alain Resnais
In the Mood for Love..... Wong Kar-Wai
Intacto..... Juan Carlos Fresnadillo
La Femme Nikita ..... Luc Besson
The Last Emperor..... Bernardo Bertolucci
Last Tango in Paris..... Bernardo Bertolucci
Last Year at Marienbad..... Alain Resnais
No Man's Land..... Danis Tanovic
A One and a Two..... Edwaed Yang
Padre Padrone..... Paolo & Vittorio Taviani
Pauline at the Beach..... Eric Rohmer
Ran..... Akira Kurosawa
The Sacrifice..... Andrei Tarkovsky
Sex and Lucia..... Julio Medem
Solaris..... Andrei Tarkovsky
Spirited Away..... Hayao Miyazaki
Talk to Her..... Pedro Almodovar
Three Colors: Blue..... Krzysztof Kieslowski
Three Colors: Red..... Krzysztof Kieslowski
Three Colors: White..... Krzysztof Kieslowski
To Live..... Zhang Yimou
Va Savoir..... Jacques Rivette
Vertical Ray of the Sun..... Tran Anh Hung
Warm Water Under a Red Bridge..... Shohei Imamura
What Time Is It There?..... Tsai Ming-Liang
Wild Reeds..... Andre Techine
Wings of Desire..... Wim Wenders

See "Bored with American films? Wanta try something different" ?
Its an expanded list of asian films. I love this stuff..eat it up... Hope you enjoy it also.

perhaps there should be an American films that don't suck thread, as well!

:hide: ;)

what will make me buy the DVD and watch it over and over is the sense that the cast and crew enjoyed and cared about what they're doing and they wanted the audience to feel the same.

herky-jerky visuals don't necessarily ruin a flick, and being pretty doesn't make one good.

If a film is historical I demand that it be as historical as possible--which means I pretty much avoid period films made in America (and period is one of my favorite genres).

I like war movies a lot, the earlier the better--muskets over rifles, spears over muskets. It helps to have a big budget and lots of extras (cgi being lame in battle scenes) but still, the plot and characters carry it. You can have pomp and spectacle but if there's no emotional investment it all goes to waste.