"Things always happen for a reason"

How many believe in that? That perhaps fate and destiny are the whole equation, and regardless of what we do, we will always end up with the same conclusion?

Or how many add "free will" to the equation, and feel that while there are limited outcomes, we create our own results and nothing is ever written in stone?

Or even those who believe that each and every action and reaction we make creates an unforseeable future that changes every single minute, every single day and gives us a more chaotic and therefore untenable outcome?

Are some things, bigger things, perhaps, more likely to occur simply because there are more than one person involved? Or are the decisions we make as individuals just as important and required as the decisions we make as part of the whole?

Sometimes I think that we can't help be part of an inevitable event, whether we choose otherwise or not. And sometimes I believe that things definitely happen for a reason that we might never uunderstand. And in this way, I believe that there is a collective unconsciousness that brings certain things to pass, regardless of how much we choose otherwise. And so it's more difficult to understand the machinery of outcomes and if we really do have a limitless amount of free will. If you think about it, we've all been fortune-tellers for the past 5 1/2 years, at least, because most of us saw early what this administration would do to our country. And was that written in stone, or was it the result of free will? Was it planned enough in advance that regardless of what we might have tried to do to change it, we would never have been able to?

What do YOU feel? Are we free from a future that is already destiny? Or are we just part of the machinery which continues to operate regardless of how much we want to change it?

nuff said

During a subsequent heart catheterization (after which I immediately went into bypass surgery) I distinctly remember a Chinese doctor telling me I lived for a reason. Maybe he told that to all his surviving cardiac patients, but I took what he said at face value. (He also made me promise to quit smoking - to which I abide).

I continue to live my second life filled with good health, promise and optimism - to give my wife and children a better life and to know the joy of my grandchildren.

I have always believed in free will. We all have choices throughout life.


:)

;)
My response:

"Or how many add "free will" to the equation, and feel that while there are limited outcomes, we create our own results and nothing is ever written in stone?"

I was going to put it into GD, but wasn't sure it equated up there with some of the morning discussions!

Yeah, by the principles of causality, everything happens for a reason, but we often can't understand the reason, so for all intents and purposes, the universe is just a series of random events.

would require a great deal of data in order to show patterns. And unfortunately, life in general isn't likely to give up enough data to make such a study plausible.

I do have to admit that there are times when something happens and it's definitely not a challenge to see how the situation came about--however, it is always something which sticks in the mind and therefore its weight is greater than the hundred times something happened differently. So while it appears we knew what would happen, we're just relying on past assumptions and situations to see where it came from.

However, I do believe in the domino effect. Some things that are done can cause a chain reaction for good or bad.

comes about because there is no one (no obstacle) to keep it from happening. Once a situation begins, it is assumed to get to its natural conclusion. If nothing, either man or other, gets in its way, that is. However, if something prevents a situation from reaching that conclusion, the outcome does get changed, and so the "future" is altered. It really can work in either direction, in that sometimes we might want something to reach its natural conclusion, such as a movie, a wedding, education, etc.; however there are the times we would want intervention to stop something from reaching that end--one case in point is to see medical treatment stop the continuation of cancer or other terminal disease.

There are many decisions I must make. When I choose poorly, I and others will suffer. When I choose well, I and others will benefit. Most things are beyond my control. Whether those things are foreknown or predetermined does not change the reality I face.

people who are fatalistic i.e. they believe that life happens TO them and that events are beyond their control, may tend to relinquish what little control they actually have. This realization by the sage caused him to come up with the following: God helps those who help themselves. Just waiting around for God to take action doesn't cut it!

Almost everything can be boiled down to a chemical reaction -- whether it is the formation of the universe or the workings of the human mind. I don't believe in fate and destiny. I think stuff happens on a much lower level than that.

that have an effect on every molecule, every atom in the universe, so much so that when a tree falls in the forest the earth shifts, and when you get a cut and your body responds, all the atoms everywhere feel your pain, and when someone in the Lounge asks about the statement so many people say, that everything happens for a reason, and I want to scream because it's right up there with believing that no one, not one iota of any part of the macrocosm is within anyone's control, and it's such a cop out to life, to being, to moving on, and I am compelled to write one huge motherfucking run-on sentence in the hopes it irritates the hell out of someone, and maybe makes one person laugh, and that if I am wrong and things really do happen for a reason, then I can hold onto the feeling that those responses canceled each other out and I am once again safe from having to deal with this subject, and the rent, the atomic tear in the ultimate and continuing creation of everything is closed and needs no healing.


:rofl: This is HUGH!!!1! :rofl:

Now how do we know that the final outcome of the question and its subsequent answers isn't the one that has come about? How do we know that deep down inside we didn't all want to take a fatalistic attitude and chuck it all for a few seeming insignificant seconds of humor? Will we ever know? Are we ever MEANT to know?

Oh, wait... I was looking for mason's "au naturelle" thread. Sorry.



:yoiks:

He died. :(

But at least he died in the ocean. At least he was not stuck in that horrible little tank.

OMG, I never saw the movie. Really, he died? Oh, now I am so sad! Poor willy! :cry:

or its sequel. However, in real life, people collected quite a sum of money to buy the real one, Keiko, from the Mexican amusement park he was at. He was transported to an aquarium up in Oregon and he lived there for a couple of years to get to his right size and weight. From there, he was transported to near Iceland (I believe) where he was let go, to join his family pod. He did disappear for awhile, seemingly traveling with them, but because he had spent so much of his life near people, he ended up staying close to a Scandinavian village (near where he was released, I guess) and he died. :(

Here's a link: http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Movies/12/12/obit.keiko.ap/

:shrug:

The reason is known as a cause. Causes have effects (ie. something hapening).

and free will.

You can make many choices that will help you or hurt you. Some things over which you have little or no control will happen to you. They may be good or bad.

I will confess, this is almost like faith for me. I have seen far too much evil; I've seen the good die young too often while the evil prosper and live to ripe old ages, to feel that there is any good force guiding the universe. It is much more comforting to me to find that people die because of heredity, diseases, random events, and lifestyle decisions, and they prosper for the same reasons, than to imagine that some benevolent unseen hand guides us through our lives. If it's chaos, free will, etc. we don't have to try to explain away the enormous number of inequities and inconsistencies by saying, "It's God's will".