Women suffer during childbirth because EVE

Yes - because Eve ate the forbidden fruit.
That's what a co-worker told me today.

I must be true, her husband said that is the reason labor is painful.
What the heck do you do with THAT!@!*!!

Myself, I would have figured it's painful because the act of giving birth means excreting anywhere from 5-10 lbs of protein all at once. Go figure.

:evilgrin:

Labor and birth for animals is exactly the same as it is for humans. These people and their idiotic logic drive me batty.

While expelling a large mass isn't pleasant for any animal, humans are the only ones that really experience the pain, trauma, and threat of death that we endure. Any first year anthropology student can tell you why...human babies have abnormally large heads for mammals, and the human adaptations for upright walking prevented the female pelvic bones from widening to accomodate it. Since the evolutionary benefits of being smarter and walking upright outweighed the evolutionary detriments of painful birth and the occasional death, women get to suffer nowadays.

Intelligent design my ass.

:thumbsup: It's that damn walking upright and big brain thing.

Baby's skull has to rotate twice to s-q-u-e-e-z-e through the pelvis, then the shoulders have to do the same...and the fact that we walk upright (mostly) leaves the birth canal at a weird angle so a 'normal' birth Jr comes out facing opposite direction from Mom...which makes it hard for Mom to clear nose and mouth so Jr. can start breathing right away.

The conclusion was that evolution was "...a tinkerer, not an engineer".
Damn straight...

But they do experience it. I've helped plenty of animals give birth and I've also been present for plenty of malpresentations, deaths and complications (used to work for a vet). These have included dogs, cats, horses, sheep, cows and goats. I lost almost a whole litter of pups when my dog had complications - one pup lived. I'm sorry, but any first year anthropology student who was there that day or the day we had twin dead calves born could easily see pain and suffering.

In addition, man has fucked with so many breeds that some of them are unable to produce a natural live birth and have to have a cesarean - those that do not suffer until they die.

Most of the animal breeds that tend to have issues are those that we created. Modern cattle, horses, and sheep are creatures that were bred to their modern size by man, not by nature. If you look at the unscrewed-with breeds and species related to those animals...onagers, sorraia's, and Przewalski's horses, you'll note their smaller size and more proportional body designs. Likewise, anyone can compare the relative birth size of wolf puppies against dog puppies. What you'll find with ALL of these species is that the bodies are smaller at birth, permitting an easier delivery. The problems that vets tend to see are problems of our own creation. We wanted bigger horses and cattle, and when we created them we made birth harder on pregnant mares and cows. Left to its own devices, birth isn't all that painful or risky for most natually evolved animals.

But, as I said, it's not comfortable for any species. There is still a lot of tissue being stretched, and that does cause some pain and discomfort. No other natually evolved mammal, however, stretches to the relative extent of the human female.

dogs are clearly in pain during childbirth...and not only that, but they have to push out one little one after another. I think all female animals have pain during childbirth because how could that shit not hurt, lol.

'cause ass had nothing to do with it.

















:yoiks:

...why the hell would God stick your trachea right next to your esophagus??? Does choking on your food mean you're a huge sinning glutton?

Humans need to humble themselves. There is nothing glorious or miraculous about us that raises us above any other species. If I believed in God at all, I'd figure he'd look like a bird, and that would be the animal he created in his own image.

Birds are perfectly designed to do what they need to survive, including eat anything and everything available to them. Some parrots and ravens are smarter than a three year old child (or your average Republican) and best of all...no bird would ever be stupid enough say painful egg-laying is because of Original Sin.

What a bunch of Cretins these fundies are. I hope God isn't grading on a curve!

At least, that's what the cow-worker would say.

And he can just consider that his punishment for being an ignorant asshat.

:rofl: :hi:

So does that mean, maybe, that the forbidden fruit was a watermelon?

Maybe I should ask what church this comes from so I can stay clear....

...used to believe this, I'm not sure if they still do....but the Pope seems like the kind of ass that would still believe in the "sins of Eve."

In the Middle Ages midwives used to be called in to testify that the woman suffered enough to satisfy god, if not she could be put to death. You just know a man thought that gem up.

Also after giving birth they were not allowed in church until all bleeding had stopped, not to mention the specific instructions on how to handle the expelled placenta.

Cheers

I would like to run some of that by and see if she is a pick and choose catholic.
Dogma!

:hi:

...but this one sounds like a real winner.

Good luck

Cheers

...the clergy got their knickers in a wad and said that women shouldn't use it during childbirth, because God was effing PLEASED by their suffering and the use of ether would deprive him of this pleasure.

They had to kind of shut up when Queen Victoria chose to use it during her deliveries...

Reactionary bunch, the clergy. Saw today where they were against...(ready for this?) forks...and dishwashers when they were first invented. By a woman.

in order to punish everybody else for the deed of one person.

" ... Eve was weak and backsliding, and the Lord visited her with a curse, and it was a curse of blood ..."


Piper Laurie played that character so batshit crazy it still gives me the heebs. :scared:

:scared:

If he says yes, then tell him think of that kidney stone as the size of a bowling ball. Then look at him and say, "Well the woman's cervix expands but you are still passing something that is bigger than the hole it is coming out of, SO IT IS GOING TO HURT!!!!"

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

But that's just me

And hope like mad that some day men CAN become pregnant and give birth. :evilgrin:

I guess I would reply that the bible also mentions, quite specifically, about beating the ever-lovin' crap out of your wife when they "need" it. That MUST be true as well, No?

Kathy Najimy and Mo Gaffney's routine on that! It would make you laugh your ass off!

:rofl:

I feel sorry for her - she is only 23. A newlywed.

What a life she has in store......

you could casually mention that since god sees *everything*, he wasn't too happy with how much pleasure she recieved the last time she "submitted" to her husband. :evilgrin:

enjoying sex with her husband is incest. :evilgrin:

Of course, unlike the fundie asshat I've actually done it, so what do I know? :shrug:

If she has a baby, and has drugs to block the pain, or has a C-section because the baby is too big to deliver vaginally, then she is subverting gawd's will, because a loving gawd wants babies and mothers to suffer and die from childbirth.

:sarcasm: