What a nice rejection I got last night.......................

I was at the store finally able to talk to this woman I've been wanting to ask out for a long time. Whenever I see here there we talk for a bit and flirt but I never got it out that I wanted to just sit down for coffee sometime. Well I stuttered and stammered and asked her last night and she said,"I don't think so." I had never been so relieved to get a rejection in all my life.

Although I'm sure there's lots of reasons why it would never work I still needed to do it, to finally know, to not have to go through life wondering what a good time we might've had together if only I'd have made a move. So now I get to move on.

Problem is I needed to have 20 other women right then and there to ask, to be able to get one yes, or whatever good odds would be meeting someone off the street. I need to be in a place where there are way more available women out there, in one place and showing their availability.

If I could learn those signals a woman gives off half the battle would be over. If I could figure out when a woman is available just by observing her and making my move, even if it's just to say hello I'd be a happy camper. The yes's would come. But I'm not seeing that kind of thing at all.
Even walking in the park everyday I will say high to a lot of people. One in particular these last couple weeks really caught my eye. She was walking her dog one evening when I was out for my hike. Very attractive blonde, upper 30's or so, great smile and flirty. We flirted with each other and exchanged greetings the first night I saw her. Even bumped into her again as I was finishing as we were walking in opposite directions around the park.

Well, as soon as I drove away I was thinking to myself that yeah, she's got a hubby, boyfriend, fiance............Sure enough, next time I saw her walking around the part she had a guy with her. He and I said hello as we passed each other, but she gave me a tense smile. That has been my experience with meeting women doing the things I love to do. Meet someone cute. Think well, let's start talking and see what happens. Next, and I do mean THE next time I see her she's got her guy along with her.

I'm going, why did the universe even allow me to meet this person then if I can't even make a move? It's like a recurring dream to me. I have never been able to understand this. Why am I only seeing what I can't have? Where are those I can approach? It's as if the truly available women hide as soon as I come along. If there's more than a touch of bitterness in this tough shit. That's the way I feel. I don't need to see this time and time again. There's something I'm missing to not see those who want me. There's another lesson in life I need to learn here but I have not the foggiest clue as to what it is. All I know is everyday my expectations go up.

The world doesn't teach guys like me about stuff like this. We're made to stumble through life and wonder when is it our turn? Do not ever tell me someday. Please don't.

It's tough on this side as well.

:hug:

:hug:

I was in your boat forever and really just got lucky. You are a good person and a girl who gets to know you will realize that and want you to always be by her side. It happened to me and I was the shyest, most stumbling, bumbling fool you ever saw around girls.

You seem to be playing it the same way I did- be the nice guy, make a good impression- and hope for the best, all the while making sure that the girls are in their comfort zones. Other methods COULD yield faster results, but would it be lasting? IMO you are going about it the right way. It is the same way that ended up working (permanently) for me.

Sincerely wish you the best of luck.

Not to say I haven't had my fun at times, but when we're talking about honest to god romance here I don't have a clue.

I had the courage to ask her out. Not that that happened too often, of course.

When the right one(s) comes along, maybe you'll write a book about it straight from the heart, like this post. You sound like a person everyone who knew you would empathise with.

it's just as confusing here too. I honestly don't know when a guy is being just generous (you know, the generous type) or if they are genuinely interested in me. It's only months or years later that I realize "hey, he probably really was interested in me. "

And most of the guys I am interested in wind up being attached also.

*sigh*

:hug:

:hug:

With all the single people in the world there should be a way to tell who's open to new opportunities and who's taken.

And we were really hitting it off, which never EVER happens.

So against every instinct I have I go ahead and ask her out.

Turns out her boyfriend is a soldier in Iraq.

Major douchechill for me.

It's just that after a no like that I want to be able to get to a yes. And sometimes another person who catches my eye doesn't come along for quite some time.

I have never had a date that started out with asking a random person. Usually I meet people in social settings (friends of friends, or party) or at work where you can get a few hours to talk before asking them out.

Congrats for having the ball to become, "One of those guys."


At the tennis court.

Jerry: I can't take my eyes off that lineswoman. That lineswoman is absolutely mesmerizing.

George: Boy you are really smitten.

Jerry: I gotta talk to her. What do you think?

George: Cold? How are you going to do that? You're not one of those guys.

Jerry: I'm going to psyche myself into it like those people that just walk across the hot coals.

George: They're not mocked and humiliated when they get to the other side.

Jerry: I have to. I won't be able to live with myself.

George: Wait a minute Jerry, there's a bigger issue here. If you go through that wall and become one of those guys I'll be left here on this side. Take me with you.

Jerry: I can't.

George: What are you going to say?

Jerry: I don't know, "Hi".

George: You think you're going to the other side with "Hi"? You're not going to make it.

Yeah I think social settings would have better odds for me if I would ever get invited to any around here. I'm thinking of getting more involved in volunteer work and finding a church that makes sense to me, like the UU's.

Finally, she asked me out and then later asked if I got that she was hitting on me every day for a spell. I was honest and said 'uh, no'.

I saw her the first day there, pretty red head, intelligent, and so on. Never even entered my mind she was interested in me.

Had she not asked me out we would never have gotten together (Even after she invited me over for dinner I was still not getting the hint, just thought she was being nice and all that).

No real advice here, just some understanding :)

My husband was utterly clueless as well. Good thing for him I'm the assertive type. ;)

I would have to be hit between the eyes with a 2 x 4 somedays, hell most days. :)

I have to give you a boatload of credit. I am so glad you asked her out. Too many ladies are alone because too many guys are afraid to ask and they have been conditioned not to initiate. I am convinced that if I hadn't asked my husband out I'd probably still be single.

If I see something I want I go for it. However I want that what I go for to be available. So I want to be able to see who that is. It would be nice to be the one hit on for a change. I know there are woman here besides yourself who've done the initiating and I think that is so cool.

Sure enough, next time I saw her walking around the part she had a guy with her. He and I said hello as we passed each other, but she gave me a tense smile. That has been my experience with meeting women doing the things I love to do. Meet someone cute. Think well, let's start talking and see what happens. Next, and I do mean THE next time I see her she's got her guy along with her.

Ya know, she could have just happened to be walking along and some other fella decided to walk with her. He could be her friend, brother, cousin, some fella after her she's not interested in (unless, of course they were holding hands or wrapped around each other, that's a definite clue there) -- and her 'tense smile' might have been her thinking, drat, there goes that good lookin' fella I was hoping to run into in the park again . . . .and here I am with some guy with me . . .

Just a thought. My advice for a first move when you really think the interest is mutual -- ask for something nice and non-threatening, like let's pop over there for a sandwich and a cup of coffee, or whatever, rather than asking for an actual date cold like that.

I had a fella here, a few years ago, started talking to me cold-turkey at my desk and I didn't know what to make of him but he asked me if I wanted to go on a HIKE sometime, and well, if I did, here was his phone numberand I could just CALL HIM.

You know, there were a number of times I thought of picking up that phone and calling him but there you go the ball's in MY court and he didn't even have to do anything . . . .finally too much time went by where I hadn't called him yet and it would have been too embarrassing to call him up. Nope, he never did follow up by dropping in again to see how I'm doing or anything.

We passed each other the other day there, what's there to do after several years and I don't even remember his name, just smile say hi and keep walking ~~~~

I wasn't going to go on a HIKE with a guy I didn't know AT ALL --- but if he'd been a little more sensible or subtle I'd have gladly taken the time to chat with him and get to know him better.

Just a little story of how we can all learn Everything the H A R D Way~~~!

I was going to ask for the coffee thing but my mind just went blank and reverted to the old standby, asking for a date. In hindsight yes of course I wanted to do that. But in the heat of the moment........well I'm just not calm, cool, and collected during the moment of truth.

I'm short, boring (or so I'm told) and unattractive. My chances aren't that great to begin with.

The last woman I tried to ask worked at the same hospital where I do. Not great looking (but not ugly by any stretch of the imagination), with a really nice smile. No ring on her finger, so I start saying "hi" and try to initiate little bits of small talk. She responded in a seemingly friendly manner (she didn't seem too repulsed), so after a few weeks of that, I thought I'd give it a shot and ask her out.

Bad idea. The second she realized that I was moving away from regular small talk and was about to ask her out (I swear, a look of positive horror dawned in her eyes), the woman mumbled something about needing to get back to work and all but ran in the opposite direction. Feeling like an idiot, I asked her anyway. She said no.

Very depressing. The look of horror and the running sort of stays with you in a "Gee, thanks for making me feel like a fucking monster." sort of way.

No matter how uncool we may be when approaching women we just gotta keep at it. Then again it sounded like in your case it was her problem and not yours. Regardless, just move on.

...after 38 years of "moving on", these days when I'm in the mood for pussy, I just go pet my cat.

A lot more affectionate than the average woman, and even after our being together for over 7 years she still has her figure.
:)

I hate making general statements but women look at these movies for clues as to how to get a man. Watch how the woman acts.Watch how the sensitive leading man acts. Act more like that. A successful relationship is one that keeps the acting to a minimum but the act is always there. It is folly to think that you will find someone who will take you exactly as you are.

Express interest in the first few minutes after meeting a woman otherwise they will think you just want to be friends or are otherwise hooked-up. Don't be afraid of rejection, don't be afraid period, women can smell fear and will not be interested.

Above all be honest. If you lie about anything important that is a deal breaker. And for heavens sake relax.

And I've not had a one make it easy for me if I happened to stutter and stammer my way through expressing my interest in them.

study them, Watch them with the sound off and watch how the people use body language.

Finding someone to share your time with starts with a very superficial ritual based very much on instinct. Trying to do anything rational is counter productive. Expect rejection every time and stop taking it personally when it comes.

Men attempt and women select, this is a fact of life that cannot be altered. Be prepared to attempt 99 times if 100 is a success. I am 43 years old and only met mrs.Angrycarpenter last year after a life time of bad dates and extended dry spells and one demon of an ex-wife.

TV shows or movies? Any of them better than others? I know what you're saying about a demon ex, and I'm 50. God I gotta learn this soon. It's way past time.

Hmmmm...........women select.......oh boy now considering the divorce rate.........

:hide:

likely to let you know when they *are* interested.

As sad as that is.

As someone who doesn't think anyone, male or female, should flirt with, (ie; string along) someone s/he's not really interested in, especially if that person is clearly interested in The Flirter, (read: stringer alonger) I wish people would just embrace more direct means of communicating with each other. Then the world of socialization would be less confusing, less manipulative, less cruel.

In the future, you might experience fewer rejections (read: rude brush-offs from passive, shallow users) if you only bother to keep the lines of comunication open with women who bother to actively and clearly demonstrate interest in you. You know, the grown-ups. That will work much better for you in terms of hooking up, and will be more likely to lead to mature relationships.

Just my $.02.

There's also this idea that if a woman touches you when you're talking to her you're good to go with her. Uh, that's never worked for me. In fact I see it as them being comfortable with me as a friend to touch. They saw me as non-threatening.
I appreciate what you're saying. But it's been awhile since a woman has actively and clearly demonstrated interest in me. I'm not good at reading those signals and freeze up if I do see something that I interpret as interest.

I'm with you. I wish people would be direct with this.

What I was trying to get across is, I think the only kind of women you should bother to maintain potential romantic ties with are the ones who let you know they're interested in you by saying thinks like, "Hey, bushwentawol, let's go out for coffee." Every other kind of woman...is kind of a waste of your time, if you ask me.

Not a lot of women are bold enough to do something like that, certainly not with me. Then again, there seems to be some guys who have women hitting on them all the time. Just an observation..........

manipulative asshats? Yeah, I know the alternative (being alone) isn't appealing to you, but I can't see why you would consider the kind of women who have been stringing you along and then rejecting you to be worth your time. Then again, I'm the kind of person who finds it (relatively) easy to be alone, rather than pursuing scenarios in which I might wind up wishing I were.

I'm kinda starting to wonder about the social climate of your city, dude. Sounds...kinda icky to me. Do you live in Seattle? Miami? Some place like that?

are such asshats. It's just that I've not met many women who would actually invite me out for coffee. It has happened in the past but not often. Seattle? Miami? Try a little town of about 30k. Don't laugh too hard. I've got a job search going as we speak. Already went to Albuquerque for an interview. But I know what you're saying. I need to live in a much larger area.

as there are some things a wee bit wrong with the behavior of the women you've been trying to hook up with.

Hopefully, you'll find a decent, mature, reasonably assertive woman to at least have coffee with soon. And the patience (and self-respect) to wait it out without beating yourself up until you do.

I'm female and the same thing happens to me all the time. I'll see an attractive guy, or meet a really great guy somewhere, and inevitably, his girlfriend either comes to join him or I'll strike up a convo with him and he'll mention "yeah, my girlfriend.... bla bla bla." Every halfway decent guy with potential I meet is attached. It SUCKS. I feel like if I ever do meet "the one" they'll already be married when I do. I feel your pain.

I'm laughing at some of the advice given here as if it's a math formula. The mating game hasn't changed for centuries...just be yourself, expose the real you and let your feelings be known...you may get some rejection, but I guarantee, you'll find someone who'll appreciate the honesty. So many men are afraid to show their feelings or interest for whatever reason...I'm telling you as a woman, you need to tell her you're interested. Yeah, so you got rejected once...don't let that stop you.

Women are so accustomed to men playing games...men who are only interested in scoring. If you are honest, trustworthy and sincere, you'll have women falling at your feet. There's no trick to it...just continue being yourself and I'm sure the right woman will suddenly be right there in front of you, without you even trying.

Good luck :)

You need to become a "regular" at your local Dem party functions, or your neighborhood association, or some local church you find convivial, or all of the above. It's so much easier to approach women who you have already met in some social context and have had the opportunity to get to know as a person.

Also, I once read some interesting advice in an advice column for the lovelorn which might apply here: Ask your friends, relatives, etc. to be *brutally* honest about what may possibly be affecting your "success rate" with women. They may be able to clue you in on some personal habits or mannerisms which could be sending the wrong signal. Good luck. :D

It took a long time, but I got to the point where I just didn't give a fuck. Not giving a fuck is the best thing to ever happen to me. Basically, if I had the least bit of interest in a girl, I would ask her out....being a friend was always my back up, not my first move. I've gotten rejected a lot, but I've also been on a lot of dates. One or two turned into more.

This is what the world doesn't teach you: rejection doesn't fucking matter. Even if they laugh at you, who the fuck cares. Your going to live, at most, 100 or so years. In 500 years, no one will even know you were ever alive. Whats a rejection here or there? Nothing.

You either choose to be proactive or you choose to be reactive. As a man who has chosen both approaches at some point in his life, let me tell you: proactive works 500% percent better.

My current girlfriend (and the girl I'll probably marry) was actually a friend. I invited her over for a movie. We were sitting there, and I just kissed her. Thats it. I went for it. She could have slapped me.

We have been together for 4 years.

yeah, like that'll ever happen.

If women smell any kind of desperation on you, it's over. Especially if you've been friends first. Then they know you well enough to be able to pick up on it better.

Seriously, the best pickup line in the universe is, "Hi, my name is _____, what's yours?" And usually the best follow up is something like, "What do you do?" and if she asks if you mean for a living or for fun, say "Either one." or "Whichever one's more interesting." or "Whichever one is a bigger part of your life." Don't think "Oh man, I need to ask her out." Just say hi. Talk. Ask her questions, answer some of hers. If she's not your type, or if she has a boyfriend, then it's cool. If she's not interested, that's cool. There's that old saying, "You find it when you stop looking for it." That only becomes true because when you're not looking, you're not trying to force anything. So it's more likely to happen organically.

Confidence is really the key. Confidence in the fact that it really won't matter too much if she says no, or if she's got a boyfriend. Confidence to not feel embarrassed by asking her out. It almost takes a little bit of apathy about the whole thing to make it work really. As long as you know that there's nothing lost by starting a conversation or asking someone out who you've known for a while, that's the first big hurdle right there.

There are, of course some basics once you get past that part: Make eye contact, but don't stare. Talk, but stop and listen too. Act casual. Act normal. Be yourself. These suggestions all seem obvious to some guys, but to others they're not. A lot of guys have been given the mistaken impression that there's a 'right way' to do things, that they have to do certain things to woo a woman. Which is totally bogus. The right way depends on you, the person you're interested in and whatever the dynamic is between the two of you. It's never the same twice. Don't force anything. If you're stuttering and stammering, not only is that a big sign to her that you're not confident... but it's also a big sign to yourself. Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you not to push yourself. If you don't push your limits, you'll never move those limits farther away. But there's a difference between pushing and forcing.

Also on the aforementioned confidence note, the reason a lot of nice guys find themselves lamenting the fact that girls end up with 'assholes' and not 'nice guys' has nothing to do with whether or not a guy is nice. It's about whether the guy is secure and confident enough. Nice guys tend to let people walk all over them... assholes don't. The nice thing about it though is that it's entirely possible to be confident AND a nice guy. You can keep the good qualities of both kinds of guy. I don't know if that's a trap that you fall in, but even if you don't, I'm sure there are other people on the forum who might benefit from that. :)

Another way of showing confidence: Joking and/or playful teasing. That's another reason a girl will gravitate towards the 'asshole' and not the 'nice guy'. Nice guys are usually too afraid of hurting people's feelings, or trying to be nice, or trying to compliment a girl to tease. As long as you know where the line is so you don't actually hurt someone's feelings, a little teasing is good. It's a very deeply ingrained way of letting someone know you like them (think back to how it worked on the playground in elementary school.), while at the same time it shows that you're confident enough to joke and take that slight risk that you just might offend them. Find a pet name that might annoy her a little and use it now and then. Ask a girl her age, then when she tells you and asks yours say something like, "Old enough to know not to answer that question." :) Just some friendly ribbing, nothing more, nothing less. I've actually heard it described as "treat a girl like she's your bratty little sister." Which sounds odd, but it's a good way of showing that you're comfortable and confident, while at the same time showing that you're not a pushover. Buying a girl flowers, telling her how pretty she is... these are great ways to get rejected. Talking to her like a normal person and not treating her like some prize you want to win, great way to not get rejected. :)

Also, as you noted, it helps to just be around singles. I don't have much advice there, I've got the same problem myself right now. Between the fact that I don't have much cash to spend going out and doing things and the fact that I'm working the night shift, so I'm awake when everyone else is asleep and vice versa, I haven't been able to get out and meet people lately. All I can say there is get out and do things. Preferably things you like, so that you will gravitate towards like-minded people.

It also helps if you keep your life interesting. Not saying you have to go and climb the nearest mountain or learn how to do magic tricks, but if you can't keep someone interested in your conversations, then odds are you're not gonna get a date out of the deal. :) But make sure you don't try to show off any skills, talents or interests you have though... but rather try to entertain with them. There's a difference. The former gives off an impression of sad and desperate, whereas the latter just makes you interesting and fun. And when you're entertaining, it isn't just focused on one person. If the things you do can't be demonstrated, then learn how to tell good stories about them.

Long story short: Don't worry. Take it easy. Be yourself. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, so if you push too hard, she'll pull back. But sometimes, if you pull back, she just might push forward. Don't wait your turn, just go out and see what's out there. At the very worst you'll end up meeting people and making a few new friends. At best, well, it could end up even better than you'd think.

Best example from personal experience I can offer is from back in high school. Back when I was in high school, my stepbrother was only a year ahead of me. He was constantly chasing after girls, buying them flowers, pushing himself forward. I was always hanging back, and just relaxing. I was myself around people, and it didn't matter if it was a guy or a girl or a teacher or a student. I was just myself. He never got a single date in high school. Not one. He ended up going to the prom with a friend. I averaged one girlfriend a semester. (And that's with block scheduling at our school... so two semesters a year.) I went to the prom with a very pretty girl who, until she met me, hadn't even been all that interested in boys. (or at least any in high school) And I can't even blame it on good looks. My freshman year I was scrawny, by my senior year I was a little bit overweight, and during the time in the middle I had horrible acne. All I can blame it on is the fact that I did what I wanted to do, and the kind of girls who would be interested in me are the same kind who would be interested in the things I liked doing. And I treated everyone the same way. Made the same jokes in front of girls that I liked as I would in front of people whose opinions I didn't care about.

Heck, I can't even blame it on my good grammar... as you can see I have a tendancy to have way too many run-on sentances. :)