Does this happen to other women: You reject a man, He demands an explanation

People hit on me on the streets and then seem to get upset with me when i say "no". I dont want to give you my number and dont want to give you my name or dont want to go out with you or even dont want to smile at you.

However, men often turn around and ask me 'Why'

Pisses me off.

Why should i explain my decision? you aren't my father.


:rant:

I don't even know what the point would be for asking "why."

You have to wonder, are they expecting a change to rebut your answer? Do they think this is a debate they can win?
:wtf:

No, you don't owe anyone an explanation.

Wow. :(

Just the fact that they had to ask, "why?" is more than enough reason to reject them, and I would probably bring that up the next time it happens. There's nothing like turning the tables on an obnoxious jerk.

Tell him, you're a thespian and you didn't quite like his voice quality and delivery in asking you out.

:P

:eyes:

...to sue the author of whatever sure-fire pick-up line just failed.

My attitude was that I did not owe them anything. But, damn, if they did not have the gall to ask anyway...

:grr:

:nuke:

And I'm fucking getting old. Trips me out. I thought I was supposed to be invisible by now. I remember talking to an elderly gentleman who informed me that women LIKE it, because they want the attention. I couldn't argue with him because I was his nurse and he was in a nursing home. Had to set a few limits though. ;-)

And sometimes when I have given some sort of explanation (when I was young and hadn't yet realized I didn't owe one to a perfect stranger), I've had them get angry and berate me for being unfair or fickle or some other strange crap - as if that was going to make me say, "Oh, I'm sorry. I was wrong. I WILL go out with you then." :eyes:

:hi:

I haven't been around much lately. I've missed you. :)

We are taught that a good girl always says no the first time, and expects you to ask again. "Why?" is just basic sales technique. You give him an answer, and he's got an objection to overcome, while showing you his winning personality, therefore getting the "yes" you really want to give.

You're fighting decades of cultural training with this one.

When I first separated a couple of years ago, I expressed interest in someone, and she gave me the shoulder, so I stopped showing interest. Later, she told me she had wanted me to ask her out, but had always been told that men weren't interested in women who seemed too eager. I had, according to her, broken her heart by accepting her rejection. I hadn't helped mine, either.

It's a wonder the species hasn't died out yet. :rofl:

Or just the bad stuff? :)

its only very recently that women have public space.

its hard to dictate ideology if your education isnt emphasized and you arent allowed to vote etc.

the madonna-whore complex for instance has been around longer than women have been voting, let alone leading academia or public policy.

And men will learn the new rules.

This wasn't the problem in olden days, when women dated whoever their parents or guardians told them to date. This is a symptom of modern society, since women are free to date or reject whomever they want. So patriarchy isn't the problem. Both sides create the expectations by accepting them. Not you, maybe. Not me--I just don't date. But in general, both genders act as they are taught, thus the system is supported, even if not approved, by both sides.

I'm not sure how the madona-whore dichotomy works itself in here. He's not asking you again because he assumes you are either, but because that's how he thinks the game is played. That's a different topic, and sure, that's part of the patriarchal history of the west. That's the part that would create problems if you said "yes." :)

she doesnt want you to take her for a whore.

Makes much more sense now. :)

I would place most of the blame on wealthy powerful men.

Other men who don't have much power and wealth appear subject to the discrimination and negative experiences of life that women do although perhaps not to the same degreee.

if you don't have good looks and don't have a lot of money or if you have some type of disability.

is not the dating game

and I would never stand anyone calling a woman a bitch.

What if a woman doused a child in gasoline and set him on fire?

Would it be OK then?

judging each other for relationships?

"I would never stand anyone calling a woman a bitch." just seems to ring of a whole cavalier BS macho attitude that's way past its prime. Who are you trying to impress with that?

What are you going to do, run up and punch some guy if you hear him call a woman a bitch? A lot of women are bitches. Some of them are absolute cunts. Unless you know the whole story, it's not your place to decide a woman needs protecting from the scurvy Snidely Whiplashes of the world.

You never want to call a woman a bitch even if she's a right old whore. :)

Nope, sorry. I read something recently (now I'll have to go try to find it) where men and women were surveyed and men were more likely to have sex with/etc almost any woman on a continuum while women were, shall we say, "choosier."

Did it ever occur to you that women are more "picky" because we face more danger in relationships, and will inevitably be judged ourselves for choosing the wrong mate, and therefore are socially forced into being more discriminating of possible mates?

Also, last I checked, it wasn't super easy for a woman with a disability or no money to find a man. This isn't a discriminatory pattern that only effects men.

than the average man at your socioeconomic level. In my view such women actually consort with the more affluent, more social, better looking males and the system appears stacked against the average looking, average socialized, average financial male when it comes to dating.

Average males have 2 people to compete against, namely the woman they want to date and the invisible Donald Trump type that this woman dreams of going out with.

that's not exercising power, that's just being smart.

if men want to date anything that moves, that's on them.

also, how is it that men are 'competing' with the women they want to date?

I never went after any women that moved. I won't accept an unattractive woman but will accept a woman that breaks the threshold of unattractiveness into attractiveness and for each person that differs.

Three years ago I found a woman, smart, funny and good looking and Canadian.

For years though seeking a reasonably attractive American woman with other aspects negotiable apeared an arduous task because of the more affluent men I had to compete against. And yes I had to compete against her in the sense that I had to compete against her very high standards for men considering a lot of these women did not even look like playboy models but they looked attrractive enough and they knew it and exploited it to a very high degree.

Yes, I suppose it appears smart for women to act very discriminating but you still exercise power and privilege and to say you don't either means denial or lack of seeing what goes on in finding a mate.

handsome man.

You've got a common problem: chip on the shoulder syndrome.

I knew one man who claimed that no woman wanted him because he was fat and bald. (He apparently never noticed all the fat, bald men who are married, and who even get married after they become fat and bald.)

His real problem was that he was an argumentative loudmouth who demanded that everyone agree with him.

However I don't agree with you and I do not have a chip on my shoulder.

AS soon as you see someone criticizing the social system, you merely assume they have chip on the shoulder syndrome as if you want to stifle criticism of a system that does favor wealthy men and beautiful women.

You don't have to agree with me and I don't have to agree with you.

Throughout the course of human history, women are the ones who have had to live with and raise the direct consequences of not being choosy.

give me a break, there is this pervasive sense of male entitlement all over the socioeconomic ladder, not just with the rich.

Let me say right off the bat that the whole "good girls say no the first time" thing is absurd (to me) and I never even really heard of it let alone practiced it.

However, if a guy really expects that to be the case, rather than press a woman for "why" which is heavy-handed and obnoxious, he should retire gracefully and try again another time. No woman is going to follow up a rejection with a clinical list of reasons she said no - the question is just going to make her feel uncomfortable.

Cool.

And on the chance that this means something, what does Italy have to do with any of this? :wtf:

If you've ever been a young woman in Rome, you'd know *exactly* the relevance of the question.

I doubt if its Italians who are hitting on Lioness. This thread has gotten quite bizarre.

"Does this happen to other women". She mentioned getting hit on on the street. In Italy, at least when I was there, a young woman couldn't go 3 feet without some jerk demanding her time and attention. Sounds relevant to her post to me. And you seem unnecessarily cranky. :shrug:

Looking for clarity. "Have you ever been to Italy" seemed an odd reply to my post. I wasn't sure if it was even meant seriously. Neither your post nor the one I was replying to seemed to add much clarity. This one did.

Maybe if people would just answer the question instead of acting like I should already know the answer, I wouldn't sound cranky.

you're right, neither post explained what it was about Italy relating to the context. I LOVE Italy, but when I was a 20 year old student there, the Italian men really lived up to their reputations. I'll tell you another thing. The girls I went to school with who actually dated Italian men called them 'rabbit fucks'. Which was funny, because they'd love to tell you what great 'lovers' they were when you were just trying to mind your own business and get from point A to point B.

Okay, that wasn't really fair to Italian men either. Broad-brush and all that. I better just shut up now.... ;-)

We felt ... what's the word? ... under siege.

I've never experienced such blatant male aggression. They would literally swarm us. It was almost terrifying.

Finally, we found two nice backpacking guys from Vermont and latched on to them, and it got better.

I was a student, so I'd be by myself on the street going to and from class. And yeah, it was literally a gauntlet at places. If it was evening, watch out - an unattended woman out in the evening MUST be a prostitute!

I was there last summer and it didn't seem the same though. Don't know if things have changed or if it's because I was older and with my boyfriend. I didn't notice girls being harassed much though.

it's a cultural difference that i still couldn't surmount even after extensive time spent in both countries. i just felt, as you said, under seige. like i always had to be on guard. Living in Florence was a challenge to me even after living in New York City. If I hadn't tried blending in as much as I did after awhile, I feel like it would've been even worse. But my Italian is good and I am Italian-American so I played the part. My friends didn't have it so lucky, it really got to the point where we'd stay home at night because the attention was so unwanted/unwelcomed. Some of it was cute, but most of it was just plain lewd. And Italians visiting in other countries (Holland, Scotland) were always the first people to assume nobody else in their vicinity could speak Italian and they will always be the loudest in the crowd. I will never forget the 4 Italians on my bus from Edinburgh to the Edinburgh Airport in Scotland. They were talking about every woman on the bus - their breasts, asses, etc. The woman two seats in front of them was compared to an elephant and nobody around them could understand them. But I could. It just made me so mad.

sometimes they're pretty accurate.

i see how it's relevant...

it's that same idea of entitlement that some men think they have when it comes to women.

What does it matter? :+

I went to college in Rome. I punched a few guys on the street toward the end of my year there.

I wasn't sayin that's how men should act, just that that's why some men act that way.

And I can't over two people seriously claiming that they've never heard the hard-to-get meme. Like anyone that. Where's the shaking-its-head-in-bemused-disbelief smilie...

What I said was that I'd never heard of the "good girls say no the first time a guy asks them out" thing - which I never really did. If I did think much about the idea of playing hard-to-get (and really never did because it always struck me as more stupid game-playing and I've never been into game-playing), I thought of it in terms of holding off on sex. So no, I've certainly never made the connection between hard-to-get (a silly concept) and some rule about saying no the first time a guy asks you out.

And your answer still doesn't make sense to me because I don't see how badgering a woman is going to help his cause at all - we're not talking about coy games here, we're talking about men you don't even know who hit you up for a date and then demand to know why you refuse. That seems pretty straightforward to me.

and, there are 1.3 billion Chinese, so there must be something to it.

But, the whole premise of courtship there is if a woman says "no" she really means "yes" or "maybe" - if a woman is interested, she will almost always say "no" to a guy at first, and will often keep saying "no" and sometimes, even being downright insulting to the guy. If she is not interested, she'll either ignore the guy or be nice to him. Not long after I got married to my wife (who is from China), we had dinner with an older Chinese couple. The wife spent a lot of the time insulting her husband, saying how he is bad at this, and bad at that, etc, etc. On the ride home, my wife told me that she can tell they have a really good relationship.

I've never, ever heard that a "good girl" is supposed to say no the first time. I think you totally made that up.

And even if You think that "good girls" should say no the first time, what does that have to do with demanding that a woman provide a reason for saying no? That's no persistance. It's badgering.

I think you made that up. It's the theme of half the romance films made in America. Women "play hard to get," men "don't take no for an answer." You're honestly claiming I made that up?

is that women expect to get badgered then you're a sick puppy.

On the other hand, I've never known any woman to "play hard to get" anyplace but bad fiction. In the real world, women tell you what they mean, what they want, and whether they want to go out with you.

Read my words, quit making up shit I didn't say.

On the other hand on your other hand, I don't even know how to respond, except to say you need to put down the bad fiction and get out more. As LP said upstream, many women are still concerned about the madona-whore complex, where if they say "yes" immediately to a stranger on the street, they will be labeled the whore. It's not an invalid fear, since many men are conditioned to think of "easy" women as non-marriagable. There was a thread earlier today from someone who was upset that that his friend had found out his girlfriend had been previously married and had a kid. That attitude is out there. If you don't have it, good on you, you've earned my respect. But to pretend that's not all part of the game is naive, or disingenuous. Obviously it shouldn't be, obviously it is archaic and sexist. But it is still there.

Seriously.

Nothing happens in a vacuum.

relationships. Everybody sucks.

change the problem.

Scenario 1:

Wildly unsuitable acquaintance (pleasant enough, but noticeably stupid and crude) suddenly blurts out, "I'm really attracted to you. Can we be lovers?" He does it in front of everyone with no warning. (I'm not making this up. It has happened to me. ) I say, "I don't think we're a good match." He asks, "Why not?" What am I supposed to say? "I don't like stupid and crude"?

Scenario 2:

Man I'm really interested in asks me out, but I'm truly busy with something important the night he has chosen. However, I'm so self-conscious in his presence that I can barely speak. Even though I tell him that I'm available the next evening, he misinterprets my tongue-tied behavior as lack of interest, and to my dismay, never approaches me again.

Lionesspriyanka is talking about Scenario 1. You're talking about Scenario 2.

Which is all I was saying.

In Scenario 1, I say NO. N-O.

In Scenario 2, I say "Try again later."

How does he know what you're saying, when there are women who will say "no?" meaning "try again later?"

Keep in mind, I'm talking about LP's scenario, not someone you know asking you out.

like the times I've been approached on the sidewalk downtown by someone who comes on strong, I feel no qualms about rejecting them, although I've never been snooty about it.

I'm simply not going to go out with ANYONE unless I have some idea of his personality. Not anymore. I've had too many dates that were either boring or scary because I went for the looks.

People A and B have run into each other a few times around town and talked briefly. B is really attracted to A, and the next time B sees A, asks A out on a date. A says no. B isn't going to yell at A or ask A out again, because that would make A avoid B completely. But B wonders, "Why are people rejecting me? Is it the way I talk? The way I look? Is it something I can change, so that the next person I ask out might say yes?"

So B asks A, "Why don't you want to go out with me?" A takes this as B still wanting a relationship, and tells B, "Stop trying to get me to change my mind!" Now this wasn't really what B was trying to do, but B doesn't say so. That's the last time they talk to each other.

Is B trying to intimidate anyone, or is B just trying to figure out why B can't get a date?

That's putting her on the spot.

She may not even have a specific reason, just a sense that there's no chemistry with you.

So what would you do if she said something like, "You dress like a dweeb"?

Then you go out and buy some new clothes and ask, "Now will you go out with me?"

What if she said, "I like men who like wilderness camping and hiking"?

Would you, as a lifelong couch potato, go to REI, deck yourself out in camping gear and say, "Now will you go out with me?"

Chances are that she wouldn't, because she would find that quick-change act a bit creepy and desperate.

Besides, what one woman dislikes another one may like.

We're all individuals. I think that a lot of men don't get that.

If you're rejected by one woman, there will be another.

However, if you are consistently being rejected and no one ever accepts you, there are a few possibilities:

1. There is something wrong with your approach. Maybe you've been following the clueless advice that young men give to one another ("Use this line" "Act like a jerk") or perhaps you've been following unrealistic role models on TV. (Movie hero goes to talk to some business executive. On the way out, he asks the executive's secretary out to dinner that night, and she accepts, even though they've barely exchanged two words.) Maybe you act like a whipped puppy and give off airs of "Please love me."

2. Maybe you approach the wrong women. You are blind to the clues given off by the ones who actually like you and go after the ones who think you're a dweeb.

3. Maybe you're boring. I don't mean "nice," I mean boring. If your only interest outside work is sports, you're going to be boring to 90% of women and you'd better stick to women who attend professional athletic events. What makes you a "great guy" among men can be a turn-off for many women.

4. Your "niceness" is actually desperation. You give off an air of "If I buy you flowers, can I get into your pants? How about if I clean your house? How about if I feed your cat while you're on vacation?" Truly nice people are nice to everyone, even when there's no promise of a romantic relationship at the end.

The only way you're going to find out is to ask a platonic female friend. I've given this advice over and over, and I don't know if anyone has ever taken me up on it. I think a lot of the guys rather enjoy playing "poor rejected me" and are possibly afraid of what they'd hear.

However, I know that this is a good idea, because I was once complaining to a woman friend about my lousy social life, and her husband overheard and gave me a frank assessment of what I was doing wrong. It was the early stages of my teaching career, and this man said that I seemed to be trying so hard to come across as professional that I couldn't turn it off in social situations. This made me unapproachable.

It was hard to haer, but I made some changes, and for a while, I had quite a nice social life before moving to a town where there was literally nobody available. Oh well!

But the point is, no woman would have been able to tell me these things.

(Assuming that one is straight), no person of the same gender can tell you how you come off to the opposite gender.

That's why you have to ask an uninvolved person of the opposite gender--NOT the person who rejected you.

I was making a move to start some petting of my date and she said "No". We were in our 30s. I stopped and didn't try again that weekend. When I saw her the next weekend and we were getting frisky, she asked me why I stopped the weekend before, and I told her you said "No". Her rebuttal was she was being resistant while wanting me to take charge and continue to try and seduce her while she would continue to say "No".

It's not hard to see why trouble occurs in a world of mixed messages. I feel it's safer to stop when I hear the word "No", but obviously some men must think it's just a word game of enticement.

:shrug:

:P

There are some entities from either gender that don't or won't conform to the stereotypes taken for granted.

The belief that double standards are acceptable.

:wtf:

Racism benefits me as a white man. I certainly don't support racism. Do you?

There are plenty of things I would benefit from that I don't support. And without being a doormat, a few things I gave up so others besides me could benefit--like friends or family. Ridiculously selfish argument.

I mean, seriously. Knowing that you have wrongly usurped privilege at the expense of other human beings and having no trouble living it up?

Unabashed assholery.

You go ahead and be that way, you won't be the first or the last not to give a shit about the oppressed.

:shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=6925062&mesg_id=6925062

:D

"reject someone's advances. What's that like?"

want to go out with him?

some random person asks you out and you say no, thats should be the end of the encounter.

sometimes you don't get what you want.

advances, I am supposed to pony up a response, but if a woman asks me why I reject her advances, I don't have to?

What color is the sky in YOUR world?

If you were female, would you happily submit to such bullshit?

strange men they don't know?

That requires them to basically have a conversation with some strange guy, whether they want to or not. That's not just stupid, it's dangerous.

don't often result from driving your own car. They do often occur as a result of interactions with men. No comparison.

Nobody has a right to attention. Nobody has a right to demand conversation from someone else, and especially not when he may motives beyond simple conversation.

:eyes:

I really, really think you're at the wrong site.

Why? It's my birthright, of course!

:eyes:

someone.

You just AREN'T.

Why is the guy asking?

Is he planning to argue the woman out of her opinion?

Is he planning to run home and change himself to fit her ideal? ("Oh, gee, she said she likes well-read men. I'd better go buy a book and read it.")

Either way, it's stupid.

If a man is consistently having trouble with women, he needs to talk to a PLATONIC female friend about how he comes across, not badger the women who reject him into explaining their reasons.

You're ugly
Your voice/diction is unappealing
your clothes completely turn me off
You stink


Sure I could soothe their egos, with "I have a boyfriend, I'm shy, or I'm an emotionally messed up freak who can't handle your awesome manliness" but it's an obnoxious question. It implies that whatever reason I have for not wanting to get involved is likely wrong and if I just explain it, they can come up with a perfectly valid reason why I should want to have sex with them. :eyes:

:eyes:

You'd think the wedding ring would be a sufficient deterrent, but uh-uh.

in the course of my life resulted from scenarios like that you mentioned.

:eyes:

after i told him "no thank you". I try to be polite, obviously that was a big mistake.

Didn't you get the memo?!

:P

"wtf?"

A guy once asked one of my grad school roommates out without any warning. She was surprised, but she had an unassailable reason for turning him down: she was engaged.

Later on, he took me aside and said, "It wasn't fair of her to smile at me if she wasn't trying to lead me on."


:banghead:

My ex used to joke that some (his word was most) guys thought that ANY show of friendliness by a female would lead to the guy thinking the female in question "wanted" him... I had hoped he was being sarcastic!

Unenlightened men think they can argue their way into a date.

Here's a few suggestions:

     "Because you're really really ugly"

     "Dude, you so can't afford me"

     "Your last girlfriend told me you suck in bed"

     "You mean you don't know??? Bwahahaha!!"


I'm sure the lounge could help us come up with a few more...

Nobody should be under any obligation to have a conversation with a total stranger.

Given how common violence is against women it's particularly dangerous to obligate women to talk to any man who decides he wants a date.

This thread isn't putting me in a joking mood. :(

But yeah, I'm always surprised at what assholes some guys can be. I've had girlfriends hit on while they were sitting with me.

We don't owe anyone an explanation. No one does.

"Will you have a cup of coffee with me?"

"No, thank you."

End of story.

No, "But, why not?" It doesn't matter why - it was a yes/no question and she said no.

How about this one:

"Want to have sex with me?"

"No."

"Why not?"

:banghead:

1) The admission of the original comment into the "joke" category just a few lines above, and...

2) The fact that this thread was in the Lounge.

Yeah, it happens. There is no right answer to why and any attempt just encourages them. Usually as I was walking away the why question would be followed by some pithy comment like "stuck up bitch."

10. Because you're ugly.
9. Because I can see from here that you have a tiny pee-pee.
8. Because you look like that guy on To Catch a Predator.
7. Honestly, do I look that desperate?
6. Because I don't date outside of my species.
5. Because that would make our average IQ 100.
4. Because you have a smile like a jack-o-lantern.
3. Because you clearly suffer from delusions of adequacy.
2. Because I'm the world's gift to women, not you.
1. Because my girlfriend is a better man than you are, not that that's saying much.

and asked questions to which I had no need to know the answer to.

She would say "for the very excellent reason of because".

I still don't have a valid come-back 40 years later.

But that sucks for you.

:D

:P

Now, how bout a Fresca, hmm, huh?

Damn! x(

:P

sheesh.
:rofl:

:rofl: :hide:

:D

If it's someone you know or have seen before I kinda think it would be nice to offer a very simple explanation.

Doesn't have to be deep. Something as simple as I'm just not interested in dating you.

Of course it's totally up to the askee.

once answering his "why?" with "First off, I don't even know you" and him growling back that I was a "stuck up little C U Next Tuesday"
I can imagine it's even worse now and still can't figure it out.

:shrug:

You are lookin good! Such eyes! What are you doing tonight? Want to go to supper?

:shrug:


There.. you've been hit on. :D

:hi:

:D

Where are we going? How fast can you get here?

;)

REJECTED!!

I have high bounce-back lately. I'll hop right back up on my white horse now.

Hmm.. NC to NY on a pony. Be there in the spring.

:rofl:


flirt- flirt- flirt :loveya:
Good Mornin!

:hi:

Never mind fucking WHY. It's not a debate, moron!

as a guy, I hate when other guys give us a bad name, if you know what I mean. One tactic I notice a lot is how a lot of guys will refuse to ever back down - they figure if they are persistent enough, they will get their way. I can only assume it works some of the time or they would stop. Then again, the ones who do this are not always the sharpest tool in the shed, so maybe it never works.

Some of them may be interested in knowing what it is about them that women find resistible. ;)

I'd say come up with an equally rude answer for them. "It's your horrible breath!" or maybe just say "I don't do dicks" or whatever. I don't know. I tend to get annoyed by people who can't take a hint, even an obvious hint like the word "no."

Is my usual response to this intrusive question.

Stealing it. Love it. Thanks soooo much!

:toast:

Oh, wait...:yoiks: :P

"Why" is such a lame-o response, usually comes from a guy who is totally insecure.

I mean, a much better response to "no. I dont want to give you my number and dont want to give you my name or dont want to go out with you or even dont want to smile at you" would be "well, I guess a blowjob's out of the question then...." :D

:hide:

:yoiks:

It's intrusive and rude as hell for men to think random women owe them access to their thoughts just because the guy decided (generally based on the 2 second assessment of her looks) that he'd be willing to screw her.

In my head it silently plays out like this:
Guy: "It should be an honor for her to know I'd be willing to screw her. Any woman should be honored I'd do that."
Woman: "Some guys screw goats. How is this a compliment, coming from some dude who doesn't even know me?"

I am working on improving myself, and I really just wanted an honest answer. Was it my yellow teeth, beer belly, receding hairline, abrasive personality, overextended vocabulary, or my self-hatred that turned you off? Or (fill in the blank, everyone else does) ;-)

but random people on the street? Yeah... not so much.

Are we ugly?

Have we got bad breath?

Was it something we said?

Is it the shoes? It's the shoes, isn't it? I should have changed the shoes. God, I'm SO STUPID!

it might be a matter to be friendly/formal perhaps in either question and answer...changing nothing of the "no" , if one doesn't want a conversation there are more clear responses to express that (the "no" beeing an answer for dating) no matter the gender. if it's clearly expressed no conversation is wished for there ain't much one can do than say ok, a pity but have a nice day though farewell

a well not that it matters much for my anyway shy uglybug me ain't hitting or beeing hitted on anyway *rolleyes*

Men have no experience with and therefore no good concept of the lame, insulting, threatening come-ons women deal with on a perennial basis. To us, the least enjoyable come-on is generally at worst a mildly upsetting experience. So guys here (hopefully not of the troglodyte variety) think to themselves: "I'm respectful to women, and I've never received a threatening come-on, therefore how can simply asking what the reason for rejection was be out of order?" We wouldn't like answering "why" either, but we don't have as negative a reaction to it because we don't experience the same nasty variety of approaches women deal with. Plus the onus is on us to do the approach most times, so we are even more inclined to be sympathetic to the rejected guy, still having no concept of how offensive said guy may be.

Yeah. :P

maybe my dog just died or something. Like i exist just to 'smile' at their sorry asses.

one advantage to getting older. thanks for reminding me ;-)

I've posted about that on DU.

If you didn't smile, you were a cold bitch with a stick up your butt.

If you did smile, you were meekly complying with the male's demand.

on edit: Found the thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=6434000#6434261

It's not restricted to guys, believe me. It CAN be irritating though.

that would require someone showing some interest

but that sounds really obnoxious. x( I don't think you owe them any explanation, especially if they're just someone who hit on you on the street or in a bar or somewhere...I guess maybe I could see like if it was a long-term relationship, but just casually like that, I'd say definitely not. :shrug:

but then I'm probably over-analyzing:shrug:

What exactly made these people think they were entitled to an explanation?

:hi:

nice to see you here unclesepp

he needs an explanation of why he is a douchebag?

I would never have the balls to do that. Maybe after a few drinks.

Preach it, sister.

In Asia, Latin America, Europe (northern,southern,eastern, and western) it's a lot worse. Guys are a lot more persistent/aggressive.

If you're upset by the actions of men in the United States, then definitely don't go outside the States.

if you don't want to talk, say so. Case closed.

define agressive

Each part of the world has polite/discreet people, as well as rude/insensitive people. Unfortunately the young immature men in the States are giving all of us guys a bad reputation.

Don't come?!?!? I'm already here! Not only that I was born and raised in the United States, and proudly serve active duty in the U.S. military. My opinion on the matter is based on what I've seen in 15 other countries.

"define agressive"? How about this one...define spellcheck!

i dont see the point of your remark.

the united states motto should be "we could be worse"

:rofl:

ladies who feel that men in the States are too pushy/insensitive/aggressive/etc.

Anyone who feels that way likely hasn't been outside of the States for an extended time. Each location in the world has polite/discreet people, as well as the opposite.

For example throughout Latin America it's perfectly acceptable for men to loudly whistle and yell sexually charged remarks when seeing a beautiful lady.

I've never been to India but I'm confident some of the men there act like gentlemen, and others are ignorant/pushy or suffer from what I like to call "hormonal imbalance".

Thank you for not insulting me like the Italian (in name) person who replied. If that person is Italian or using an alias I have no idea...

They do, however come on to me from time to time.

I just tell them that I'm married

I could never do that, but then again maybe I am some sort of freak. :shrug:

There's a lot of insecurity in the world, and guys who try this approach generally have more than their share.

Perhaps they're asking "Is there something about me that I could change? Am I physically repulsive? Am I a jerk? I thought women liked jerks? Please tell me what I can do that will intrigue you. Give me the answer I've been looking for, but that attractive women refuse to share..."

Also, some guys know that attractive women get hit on ALL the time, and that most women answer "NO" as a reflex, usually without even considering the merits of the person asking the question. Perhaps asking "Why?" is an attempt to snap you out of your auto-response mode and so you'll actually look and at least find a REASON to reject them.

Obviously, because you're involved and because you prefer women, they don't have a shot, but THEY can't tell that by looking at you. They also can't tell that, even if you were looking for a man, that you wouldn't be too interested in someone who tried to pick you up on the street.

Or maybe they're just assholes. The world is full of them, too.

That's really putting her on the spot, and it comes across as whiny and insecure. If say, I told a guy, "I prefer intellectual types," and he started faking being intellectual, he would come across as desperate.

Besides, the idea of changing something fundamental about yourself to appeal to a specific woman is just creepy and codependent.

If you get shot down once, you're just not her type. Live with it, and find someone else.

If you get shot down all the time, ask a platonic female friend for advice. You're probably doing something like following the lame advice that guys give one another or following unrealistic role models from the movies or giving off vibes of desperation or trying to move too fast or so caught up in what you want that there's no room in your head for what she wants.

I give this advice all the time. How many men have actually followed it? Another man simply CANNOT tell you how you come across to women, just as another woman CANNOT tell me how I come across to men.

All the men who whine about not getting any attention from women should just find a platonic female friend to give them some coaching.

Badgering a woman or man about "why won't you go out with me," will only make that person thankful that s/he said "no." He or she might also feel guilty and may lie about the reason to avoid hurting any more feelings. If you want an honest answer, ask a good friend who is a member of the opposite sex.

And it's not their business. Random woman on the street has no obligation to tell random man "I'm a lesbian."

She has no obligation to tell him whether she's married, in a committed relationship, or single but just doesn't like him.

Revealing that you are lesbian or single makes you a potential target for harassment. As a pure safety issue, I can understand why women wouldn't want to broadcast that.

If I can understand that, seems like men should be able to understand that - and just be able to respect women's privacy enough to recognize that it's not their business what the woman's personal circumstances are, it's not their business who in general she is attracted to, and by acting like it IS his business, he's acting in a threatening way.

Men's obligation to not act aggressively toward random women trumps women's obligations to critique random men to let them know how they can improve their odds of getting laid.

Don't even ask for an explanation.

if a woman tells you she's never been flattered when a guy hits on her or tries to pursue her, she's lying or wants attention. Now hear me out before ya's get defensive. There's a difference between a man politely asking you out, or staring at you to try and get your attn,than someone who is just plain creepy. Those types i could do without, but heck yea i like it when i'm told i'm pretty or asked out. I'm married and faithful w/ children, but it's a nice ego boost to still be sought after. When i was in my early 20's i had more experiences as the op states, but that's bc the places i hung out were places where most gentlemen didn't roam.

ohh...and iggying is the best method of defense..

Sometimes I'll take no for an answer (although I don't hit on random girls on the street or clerks/waitresses-- I prefer at least a tiny bit of familiarity), but sometimes I'll ask why. Depends on how attracted I am to the girl.

It's mainly to see how they answer. If they say, "I have a boyfriend," or "I'm a lesbian," or "Our politics are too different," etc... That's fine, I'll walk away and not say another word.

If they say "Because you're fat," and/or "Because you're creepy," then I'll get pissed (because they're being shallow) and give them a short lecture before whirling and leaving.

for women who have other things they'd rather do with their time than spend it with you, maybe they have a point about you being creepy.

On the plus side, I'm sure the lecture reinforces their decision, so maybe it's validating for them in some way.

Said lecture goes all of two sentences, and is delivered on the spot. I said "quick," not "ten-minute tirade."

I can't help most of my 'creepy' behavior -- it's unconscious, and I'd need a complete personality overhaul to get rid of it.

*slaps ignore button* I'm explaining myself, but life is too short to waste dealing with people who act like you do.

Yep, that post seems consistent with the plan of action.

If you're asking someone out, fine. But once they say no, putting them on the spot demanding an explanation is rude. Getting confrontational and lecturing them if you don't find their explanation of why they aren't attracted to you to be acceptable is aggressive - and creepy. Whirling around and leaving is consistent with not really wanting their feedback at all, but just wanting to get the last word in, so you can control the conversation - and make it clear, for whatever reason, that you are the one dismissing them, that they are beneath you, even if the reality is that they've just rejected you.

I think that's why men call out sexist slurs at women who aren't interested in them, as well - so they can demonstrate to the world that the woman (who they wanted a second ago) is too contemptible for them to waste their time with. Message to world: They are still in control.

"It's not a control thing, at least with me."

If you think people are obligated to give you any explanation because you want one, even if they didn't ask to be in that situation with you, if you feel like the fact that you want them to have that conversation with you is enough reason that they should have to have it, welcome to the world of male privilege.

I mean, everything including provocative spreads of you in bed. I'd think that someone who loves attention as much as you do would feel quite in her element in those situations.

*disclaimer: I am a feminist, I don't think strangers deserve anything you don't feel like giving, I don't particularly like that kind of attention from men I don't know. However, given your penchant for attention-grabbing, I pick up a small note of disingenuousness here, Lioness

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this response.

I enjoy the attention I get from men hitting on me. However, once it goes beyond the point of my refusal, I don't enjoy it anymore, and I feel very much like lioness does.
Just because someone enjoys a certain kind of attention, on their own terms, doesn't mean they enjoy or seek all forms of attention all the time. And it certainly doesn't mean they are obliged to accept it.
It would be one thing if, for instance, lioness posted a picture of herself, and some people replied flirtatiously or in a complimentary manner and she became offended or upset. Silly. Silly for ANYONE to do. But, if the attention went to far or the comments got out of hand, because she posted it in the first place, should she be forced to smile and accept inappropriate or out of line comments?

:wave:

what the connection is between enjoying attention and this post being disingenuous

Some people don't seem to understand that. I am glad that you explained it for them and I hope that those who read this finally get it.

and enjoys projecting that, then you should appreciate assholes who won't take no for an answer?

:wtf:

:hi:

:loveya:

:eyes:

that NEVER gets old!




:loveya:

or harassed. you slut!

:crazy:


this world... *sigh*


it's changing SLOWLY, though, don't you think? with younger men especially.

i'm noticing i'm quite fond of younger men lately :evilgrin:

:sarcasm:

:P