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Physics people: At what point does Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity become a "law"?

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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:43 PM
Original message
Physics people: At what point does Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity become a "law"?
Hasn't the theory, by now, been proven to be true?
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. not enough votes to overcome the veto. nt.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Ah-ha! So it's Pelosi's fault!
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 04:50 PM by brentspeak
She must be loyal to classical, Newtonian physics.
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Tommy_Carcetti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
3. Perhaps this guy can enlighten you...
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puerco-bellies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. It did but the Sureme Court over ruled the discision.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
5. Never
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Excellent explanation there!
:thumbsup:
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. I'm still confused
The article says that scientific theory must be falsifiable. But how are Einstein's theories of relativity (special and general) "falsifiable"? And how are Newton's laws NOT falsifiable?
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. It doesn't say laws are not falsifiable
Of course they are. But accepted laws have never been shown to be false. But if we found a planet today that violated Newton's laws, then the "law" would be proven false. But don't expect that to happen soon.

Einstein's theories were very falsifiable, but experiment after experiment has shown them, so far, not to be false.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. But how are Einstein's theories of relativity (special and general) "falsifiable"?
Build a space ship that goes faster than the speed of light, then you'd have falsified relativity.

Apply a force to an object without applie a force in the equal and opposite direction, and you'd have falsified Newton's laws.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I understand that IF one could either one of those things, Einstein's theories would be falsified
But until someone actually does built a space ship that exceeds the speed of light, how can we say his theories are falsifiable?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I think you're confusing "false" with "falsifiable"
If one could concieve an experiment that would disprove relativity, then it would be falsifiable.

If one did the experiment, acheived FTL, then it would be false.

Just because something is true does not mean it's not falsifiable.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
6. A theory doesn't "become" a law.
Laws are rules for how nature will behave under certain conditions. Theories explain why nature works the way it does and why it has certain characteristics. In a sense, theories are actually stronger than laws in that they explain nature on an everyday basis.

In common parlance, a "theory" is something that is taken to be speculation. But in scientific jargon, a theory is much more than that. A hypothesis is speculation or conjecture, and is only called a theory after it is consistently verified in scientific-method experimentation.

For example, we still have the "theory" of gravity, not the "law" of gravity, though certainly no one is suggesting that gravity is not a fact!
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. gravity is a myth
the earth sucks
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. You suck!
:P
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. so's your face!
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Well you're a stupidhead!
:grr:
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. touche
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I see my unswerving logic, debating savvy and nuanced position have at least brought us to stalemate
:toast:
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MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. i'll drink to that
:toast:
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
10. It's not just one law.
The equivalence of mass and energy is one; then there's the constancy of the speed of light. Most of these http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequences_of_special_relativity">consequences are considered as laws.

General Relativity widens the theory to describe acceleration and equates it to gravity, which to some degree invalidates consequences of Special Relativity. We still refer to Newton's Laws of Motion, though, because they're still so useful and essentially true for so many cases. So it is with Special Relativity's consequences.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. But don't Einstein's theories invalidate the universitality of Newton's Laws?
Newton's Laws no longer apply in situations where an object is moving at velocities approaching the speed the light. So how can they be "laws"?
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Orsino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Newton is not completely dethroned...
...except as keeper of the secret to life, the universe and everything. We still use Boyle's Law, for example, despite its failure to precisely describe the behavior of real gases. Newton is still plenty useful for planning a mission to Jupiter.

Newton's Laws are still capitalized a lot, even though there are exceptions. We are so much more likely to need to compute the acceleration of an automobile than we are the precession of Mercury's perihelion that Newtonian mechanics are still taught in school. Heck, Newton himself would have understood everything I learned in a college class in Mechanics two decades ago. Relativity and Quantum Theory go further in explaining how the universe really works, but for most of us earthbound mortals, Newton is all that's needed.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
14. Misinterpretation of the word "theory"
In this context, "theory" means, more or less, a school of thought, not an idea that may or may not be true.

the "laws" would be a subset of the theory.

For example, Newtons theory of motion has laws, F = ma, for example.

Think, for example, germ theory, or color theory, or the Pythagorean theorem.

So E = mc^2 would be a law, and part of Einstein's theory of relativity.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. That's a good explanation of the differences between a "law" and a "theory"
Makes more sense to me now.
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