Refusal to date a race is racism?

I believe that one harbors some racist beliefs if he or she is unwilling to date or marry a hypothetical woman or man of a certain race. There is no intelligent rationale for simply rejecting millions of people before you even meet them. But before I go on, I'd like to make the distinction between a preference and a prerequisite. Everybody has preferences, and there's nothing wrong with that. For example, I prefer dark hair and dark eyes. But I'd never rule out a woman who has light hair and light eyes based simply on my abstract ideals. In my ideal world, I guess my love would have dark hair and dark eyes, but in my ideal world, I'd also not have to work a single day of my life. They're just fantasies, and not rules to live by. In contrast, prerequisites ARE hard rules to live by, and some examples of them would be "I don't date or marry Blacks/Whites/Asians/Latinos". I get incredibly annoyed when people try to pass off their hardline prerequisites as "natural", and absolutely refuse to consider the social forces that may have shaped them. I hate the "That's just the way it is" school of thought in all matters of debate, as should any intellectually responsible person.

Some common rationales and why they're wrong:

1) Races are too different

If everybody involved is American-born and Americanized, there shouldn't be too much cultural differences except for maybe for meeting the parents. But that's an intrinsically awkward situation anyway. And if you're afraid of problems that may arise due to racism in society, well, no relationships are going to be perfect. Why are racial issues a deal breaker, while the other host of potential relationship problems are worth enduring? Anyway, assuming that people have different values/beliefs/priorities based on simply their looks is textbook racism.

2) I'm not attracted to that race

So in a million permutations of possible physical arrangements within a single race, you can't find one single attractive combination? Beauty, despite cultural differences, is general uniform, with symmetry and lack of deformities cited as the main pillars of beauty. If you look at movie stars of all different countries, you'll find evidence of cross-cultural sex appeal.

3) I'm not attracted to a certain predominant racial feature, just like how I'm not attracted to obese people, or mentally challenged people.

It's quite telling when a person compares something like skin colour to things like obesity and mental retardation, and it goes to show how some racial features have been so closely identified with things that are, to be unPC, flaws in the human condition. Things like obesity have scientifically and sociologically explainable reasons for undesirability, such as general unhealthiness and low perceived social value respectively. So do certain races exhibit general unhealthiness or low perceived social value? The former, maybe, but the latter? Definitely. But you'd hardly hear people openly admitting they're averse to dating certain races because then their social prestige will fall.

*********

So, in a hypothetical scenario, if a member of Race X is good-looking, culturally compatible (i.e. Americanized), and in objectives terms, attractive, how is it not racism if there are people who will reject him/her based mostly on his/her racial identity? Some people try to justify their prejudices by saying something facetious like, "I'm personally not attracted to Brad Pitt. Does that make me racist against Whites?" No, it doesn't, but you're probably attracted to George Clooney, or Clive Owen, or Sean Connery. The analogy falls flat.

Personally, I don't have a problem when someone says something like, "I don't have anything against Black men, it's just that I've never met one whom I liked". That's a perfectly understandable statement. But when they say something like, "I find negroid features repulsive, even if they're arranged in a classically beautiful manner", then I sense some racism.

is a racist comment.

I've never found myself attracted to a woman; therefore, I only date men. I'm assuming this comment does not make me homophobic.

So how does that differ from saying 'I've never found myself attracted to black men; therefore I don't date them' a racist statement.

Why don't we just call not voting for Obama racist and not voting for Hillary Sexist

:eyes:

I think attraction is a powerful thing. I have no problems dating a black man but in my lifetime I've never found one I was attracted to enough to want to date. Now I've dated hispanics, asian and even a guy from Morocco, but the bulk of my relationships are with white men.

:popcorn:

:popcorn:

I don't find myself attracted to blondes IRL at all. I can say, "Hey, she's really cute/sexy/whatever," but I have no desire to date them. Well, since I'm happily married, I wouldn't feel that inclination anyway.

years ago i had a relationship with a well-to-do japanese man who made it quite clear that he was slumming to be associated with someone of my class and race, that gets old pretty fast, if someone is prejudiced against me maybe just don't ask me out and don't waste my time (and don't spend months chasing me in the first place, which is what this guy did, cripes!)


it's hard for me to understand why skin color/eye color/hair color have much to do with sexual attraction, to me i think that chemistry is about a certain body type which appeals to you

is there really anyone so silly as to say "i can't be attracted to a blonde?" or "he's got dark skin, no way i can get attracted to that?"

i don't think sexual chemistry works that way for most people but maybe i'm wrong, i guess some people are only turned on by shoes, so why not people who are only turned on by certain hair colors?

but i doubt they're much in the mainstream, if your wife dyes her hair, you don't suddenly lose your woody, methinks

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Or inside it, for that matter.


My wife would kill me!

But you never know. I wouldn't have refused to date someone of a space alien race.

Plucky Comic Relief Guy: He he, get a room guys!

(Sluuuuuuurp!)

Plucky Comic Relief Guy: Oh!!! That's not right!!!

If everybody involved is American-born and Americanized, there shouldn't be too much cultural differences except for maybe for meeting the parents.

Are you kidding me? Have you ever actually interacted on a deep level with someone outside of your ethnic group? There indeed are many basic, American cultural similarities if you only go skin deep, but beyond that, there can be an entire world of difference. And for the record, I have dated outside of my own race/ethnicity, so I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about here.

as a white American man married to an African-American woman, there really are very few cultural differences, and most of us are aware of the other race's cultures, though there can be some pretty serious preconceptions. The OP is right in stating that there is an overlay of American culture.

Now, there can be greater differences in those of African descent from other countries.

But at what point does it stop being a "Black" background or "White" background, and just more of backgrounds that are unique to each individual?

Oh, and :popcorn:

:scared:

:popcorn:

you said "Poutine" not...never mind.

:spank:

oot and aboot!!

i've heard people say that, and when they did, they did not mean canadians from canada, they meant canadians as a code word for nasty racial slur

why encourage this sort of thing, i just thought you were making a bad joke

I'm Asian, well mostly anyways, I do have a smidgeon of Russian in me as well. My family can be considered to be "assimilated" i.e. Americanized in that we don't talk with accents and we partake in American rituals. However, when the dates come home to meet the family, that's when Americanized goes out the window. For example, if you're a non-Asian guy and your GF is a 1st or 2nd generation Asian-American, you know her family will talk about you in their native language, and in front of you. That's the first thing I tell my dates, "yeah, my family is going to talk about you and you're going to smile back like an idiot". Followed by "and you're going to eat strange foods and you will not spit it out".

BTW, what about people who specifically seek out mates from other racial groups? Can't that be considered racist or engaging in stereotypes? Where I live, there are a lot of White guys who only date Asian women, and that to me always seems icky because I don't like how Asian women in this society are being fetishized.

Because I totally have! :wow: I'm Indian-American and have come across several white women and at least 1 black woman who had a thing for Asian men. It completely blew my mind.

My family has been quite the opposite. My parents don't care about race but my siblings and cousins are all into white people for some reason. My brother and sister make fun of me for having an Asian-American girlfriend. They think they are so modern and progressive, but I have to point out the irony that there is nothing progressive about racism. Using race as the motivating factor is racist.

Not in a fetishizing way, but simply because I prefer dark hair and dark eyes and crazily enough, most Asian dudes have dark hair and eyes. :P

Regardless though there is beauty and butt fuglytude in every race, and it's just not that important to me. Even looks in general come secondary--stupidity is a huge turn off for me, if someone is smart and funny I'm willing to overlook a lot of physical stuff. By the same token, I don't care how gorgeous someone is, if they can't string together a sentence properly or seriously like trashy reality shows instead of enjoying them for the ironic pop-culture value, we're gonna have a problem. :P

There are no beautiful or ugly races, only beautiful or ugly individuals. And even then, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think it's wonderful that there are women who are attracted to Asian men. There are many Asian men who are attracted to black women too. I agree on overlooking some of the physical stuff. My girlfriend has everything I could possibly hope for in a woman except maybe that she has flat nose instead of a sharp one. She likes to point out that this is a racist preference since some ethnicities tend to have flatter noses. :P

When somebody says they find something "repulsive" about some human trait that's pretty substantial evidence they've been nurturing a hatred of some sort. It might be racism, homophobia, or any number of things. Right here on DU you'll see a lot of misogyny expressed in hurtful criticisms of a woman's appearance.

Some of the most hideous attacks I've seen here on DU have been against transgendered people -- completely unacceptable double shotgun blast of homophobia and misogyny of the sort that would result in immediate tombstoning for similar expressions of racism.

Redstone

It's quite another to say you'd refuse to date someone of another "race."

My grandfather was upset that I chose to marry, in his words, "A Mexican Girl."

I doubt very much that this was a matter of "personal preference" to him, instead it was part of the racism he'd been taught by his family.

ofcourse dating is a deeply personal issue and much less of an issue than any other kind of racism but when something is based purely on race, is it not racist?

:popcorn:

but I think it is what we are attracted to or rather who we are attracted to

I've been attracted to people of many different races

I have recently been a member of 2 different online dating services. In the process of choosing and meeting men, I met and dated black men. It personally doesn't make any difference to me. That being said, in the countless hours I spent reading profiles of men who were looking to date, the only time I saw racial preference specified in a profile, it was black men saying they wanted to date black women. Not all of them mind you, but some. It really suprised me, but oh well....

more than several times in various wordings. It's sometimes in the text, but usually in the "my date" section, there's no doubt who the poster is looking for.

I will not date married men

I will not date political conservatives.

those poor married political conservatives! How are they going to cope?

it's not like a have a hoard of men beating down my door....

:)

that's what I call a "dead end"

:(

if others want to play second fiddle, they can have at it.

:cry:

Given the intolerantly homophobic nature of most societies, one of the most effective ways of emasculating the males of another race would be to try to "homosexualize" any potential attraction to them. Look at how Asian males are viciously and continually emasculated in the American media.

I've never made a date with anyone when the attraction wasn't clearly mutual beforehand. In fact every date I ever went on was preceded by more causual social interactions that established the mutual attraction. I never placed any limitations on who I might or might not find attractive.

I know I've gone out with men who had romantic intentions while I didn't, in the very same way I've gone out with women who had romantic intentions while I didn't. It's the kind of thing where one person says, "Hey, let's go out and grab something to eat," and there's a potential romance there maybe, but it's not a formal date, and afterward it's clear to both of you if it's worthwhile to start dating or not.

The issue of homosexuality is especially acute because so many people who are gay themselves refuse to admit it. I went through one particularly hellish relationship with a woman who couldn't allow herself to be homosexual. Things would have been better for both of us if she hadn't imposed upon herself a "blanket refusal" to date other women.

The more sinister side of the same problem is that in our society it can be downright dangerous or potentially humiliating for a person to express their romantic interest in another person of the same sex. Gay people suffer all manners of oppression, and this sort of "blanket refusal" adds to that atmosphere of oppression because it makes it almost inevitable that a gay person's feelings will get hurt.

The blanket refusal makes it more difficult for people to deal with innocent advances in a gentle and friendly manner. If you told someone, "I'm sorry, I don't date guys," that's just as unpleasant as telling someone "I'm sorry, I don't date Mexicans." The blanket refusal takes the light out of perfectly innocent inquiries.

So maybe you do refuse to date someone of your own sex, or someone who is black, or asian... whatever, it's still something you should keep to yourself because external expressions of that are almost sure to be negative. There are gentle positive ways of letting someone know you take their romantic interest as a compliment, but that you are not interested in a romantic relationship with them.

If I meet someone and they say "Sorry, I'm gay and I don't date women," then that's perfectly fine with me, and it's a non-personal rejection. I don't think it's bigoted to have a gender preference in who you date, I think it's human nature.

On the other hand, if someone says "I don't date white people," then I think "Well fuck 'em" and I move on.

I guess that there are some race politics going on. All I know is that when single, I pretty much will date anyone who's breathing and can stand my company for more than ten minutes in a row.

You are not the one at risk of having your social standing challenged by the rejection:

Oh well, the guy rejected me because he was gay...

The guy voluntarily takes on the social risks here by informing you he is gay. Mind you that's not a big risk these days in many places, but in some places it is still a very big risk. Public knowledge of a person's homosexuality could get them fired from their work or evicted from their home without cause.

If on the other hand a woman volunteered that she was attracted to you and would like to date, she is taking a double risk -- the usual risk of romantic rejection, and the further risk of damaging her social standing with you and within her community.

The blanket rejection, "Sorry, I don't date women," doesn't leave the risk-taking person with any sense of security because our society does not accept homosexual relationships on an equal basis with heterosexual relationships, and too often fears them. In the worst case, anyone can imagine the tone of voice that would make "Sorry, I'm straight, I don't date women," into a slur every bit as nasty as "Sorry, I don't date blacks."

Like Dr. King said, people should be judged on the content of their character, not the color of their skin.

There is only one race, the human race. I like all colors and cultures and religions, except religious/political extremists.

Women have turned me down and stated my ethnicity as the reason, but they were mentioning misunderstood cultural values and not physical features. Everyone has physical features that they might find attractive, but those features can transcend ethnicities. Ethnicity should not be the motivating factor.


Your statement of "never met one whom I liked" is racist. You should clear that up if you meant "never met one whom I wanted to date".

If you just happen to find certain combinations of features unattractive, then that's just what you find attractive or unattractive.

There may be a few more grey areas in there, but I really don't feel like poking too deeply into that mess to try and discover them.

If you're gonna be a racist about who you date, I think it's better to be up front about it than screw around and try to pretend you're not racist.

In a very, very long time. You nailed it, IMO.

On the flipside, you've got people who fetishize certain races, and they're just as racist as the people who say "I'd never date X race". In both instances, you're not treating the person as a human being, but rather an object to project BS on. It's funny how subcultural it can get--guys into hip hop chase black women to show how "down" they are, anime fans chase Japanese because of their weird ass Japanophile fantasies, and on and on.

For me, race and even gender have no bearing on how attracted I am to someone. I certainly have physical preferences (long, dark hair and dark eyes make me weak in the knees), but even those are not set in stone. My boyfriend has the prettiest blue eyes I've ever seen, and he makes me...stupid. :) It's far more important to me that a partner is smart (if there's one thing I can't stand, it's stupidity), shares my values and is into the same kinds of hobbies. I've dated every color of the rainbow, but I tend to date more whites just because of the circles I run in. There just are not a whole lot of Pagans or Goths of color, nor a lot who are into polyamory, though that's changing (thank gods!).

There's an Interracial Relationship group here that you might find interesting.

I just can't find people without a brain attractive. :P It doesn't matter how good looking that person is... if that person opens his or her mouth and a river of stupid flows out, it just kills any attraction I had or will ever have for that person.

I also tend to go for dark hair, ect. But it's not a fetish, just a generalization. Different things work for different people. The most recent person I was chasing after was about as white and blonde as one can be. (Although to be fair, I first met her online and I was attracted to her before I knew how hot she was. Or how blonde she was :P ) In the past I've dated people of numerous skin/hair/eye color (and some interesting combos... hottest girl I ever dated was half portuguese and half cuban. I also dated a girl who was half jewish and half irish. Pale skin, red hair, offset by very dark brown eyes.)

In my case, I think I just tend to be attracted to people who I have SOME things in common with... I.E., there's a good starting point for a relationship there. But I don't want somebody who's exactly like me. That'd get rather boring rather fast. I want someone who's similar, but has room for the two of us to explore the things we DON'T have in common. So having a different genetic, religious or cultural background is just not an issue with me. I don't want someone who's exactly like me. But having the same kind of background isn't a problem either because it can help give a starting point. Long story short: it just doesn't matter. What matters is the person and how I can relate to him or her.

But maybe that's just me. :)

P.S. - While I mentioned the fact that I've dated jewish girls: For the record, I ain't gettin' any bits snipped off. If any jewish guy or girl wants to marry me, they'd have to accept that I ain't converting to any religion that advocates chopping parts of my bobbly bits off. No arguments. That's just how it is.

I am not attracted to white women, never have been, am I a racist?

I've met a lot of great guys, but they just don't turn me on "that way."

Also, none of my lesbian friends will date me, even though they all say they adore me.

Are we sexists?

Personally, I like women with long curly hair, especially if its red or blond. Drives me nuts. You don't find that too often in black women unless she's racially mixed.
But I've dated black women who were very beautiful even if they didn't have my ideal hair type. Everyone has preferences and those attractions are probably influenced by many, many things most people aren't aware of. And a black woman with dyed blond hair or a blond curly wig doesn't do it for me either. I don't like fake.

Or black men, or anybody else.

where will it end?

"Beauty, despite cultural differences, is general uniform, with symmetry and lack of deformities cited as the main pillars of beauty. If you look at movie stars of all different countries, you'll find evidence of cross-cultural sex appeal."

This statement is filled with Western Cultural ethnocentrism.

NOT all cultures see "beauty" in the same way... unfortuantely, because of the media age and the commodification of "beauty" within the United States in the mid to late 20th century, the US's idea of "beauty" has been exported to the whole world.

Movies are not representative of much other than Western, mostly WHITE standards of "beauty". Even Bollywood uses largely light skinned actors that look more like Britishers than darkskinned openly ethnic Indians.

Honestly, it would be better for your argument to take out #2, as it makes you sound like an ignorant westerner who thinks the western standard of beauty DOES apply world wide. It doesn't.

:hippie:

Even now they buy too much into that Fair and Lovely crap. Weird that it only seems to apply to women...the male "hunks" can be dark skinned.

Shah Rukh Khan for instance. :loveya:

it's an ancient prejudice the continues even today, not just in Bollywood but in choosing a partner as well. A lot of Indians view a white partner as the most ideal one.

Millions of Indians are very light skinned. There are some who look like southern Europeans.

From Kashmir, for instance. I was in Hyderabad at a mela last month and there was a guy selling Kashmiri rugs yelling out in Hyderabadi Urdu at the top if his lungs.

race for the most part. Not to say that other races don't have attractive people, and that we don't date outside our races, but I think it goes deeper than that. Maybe even scientific. :shrug: For the most part, you see common races together.

on this one, but what you just said sums up how I feel perfectly.

and this comes from a mixture of societal expectations and media images. I don't think natural has anything to do with it.

There are attractive and unattractive people in every "race"- although we're all really only part of one race- the human race. From a scientific and statistical standpoint as well, more genetic variety produces healthier offspring. I've often found myself attracted to Irish and English men with similar pale features as myself (I married two men of Irish ancestry- I'm English and Swedish), but there have been many exceptions in the men and women I've found beautiful and have been attracted to (or more).

and she used to attract weirdos who had an "Asian woman" fetish.

Once she told me that a guy had been following her around and had even followed her to the door of the suite we shared in the graduate dorm. There was a directory of residents downstairs, and even though it gave only last names, it was easy to take that last name and find out the full name in the student phone directory.

Well, my roommate didn't go by her full name. Nobody who actually knew her called her by her real first name, not even her Thai friends.

So whenever a guy called up and asked for (long Thai name), the other two of us would say that she wasn't in. :evilgrin:

Years later, a Korean man told me about his sister being bothered by men who had what he called "yellow fever."

and shared values/politics. I prefer that they have all of those. The race of the woman is of no consequence, though if you are talking about physical attractiveness only, having dark hair is a plus, though I've dated blondes as well. My own dating experiences has been with women of varied races. I don't purposely seek them out, its actually quite hard to figure out WHAT I find attractive about women, the only thing I can peg down is the hair, the style isn't even that important.

What does being "Americanized" have to do with this? That rules out a significant portion of the earth's inhabitants. Are we replacing a discussion on racism with ethnocentrism? And why do I suddenly feel like I'm in GD for asking this?

I hate hate hate it when people point out that they think all 'black' girls are ugly :puke:, etc. I have been attracted to people from every race, but to be honest there are a couple of races from which I find most of the people I am attracted to.

does that make me homophobic

:shrug:

I think everyone has personal tastes to who or what they date. I have never dated a black man. I can't determine if it's the fact that I just prefer dating white men (I'm white) or I haven't found the right black man to date. I hardly call myself a racist.

... and gives good back scratches. If she doesn't know how to give a good back scratch, it's a deal breaker.

But that's not out of choice. I've just never been approached by a non-black guy in that manner (IRL anyway). Now I don't think I'm unattractive so I have to believe that there aren't many non-black men who are interesting in dating a black woman. I do know that we kinda have a bad reputation as being hard to deal with so maybe that's part of it but I don't consider any non-black guys who wouldn't date a black woman racist. Everyone has their preferences and what they're comfortable with.

but i only fantasize about a very narrow group of physical characteristics.

and i dream the same.

and my serious relationships follow the same.

but i'll fool around with just about anybody -- or i certainly have.

I tend to agree with you. That said, I tend to be a bit more forgiving of people who have not had many opportunities to date outside their race - it's sometimes difficult to take the plunge if you've grown up in a predominantly white or black (or whatever ethnic) community. Heck, my mom was the first person in her family to marry a non-Italian, and I'm sure that was not always easy back in the 1960s.

There are also some societal pressures as well - I know my wife got a few comments for her marrying a white guy - esp. when we go to a Chinese enclave like Flushing or Canal St in Manhattan, while I've heard a few whispers in the past about other women I've dated (from some white women when I was with a Filipino woman, and from some black guys when I was with an African-American woman) Oddly enough, Chinese also seem fascinated by mixed-race babies/children. When we went to China, people would look at the two of us, then our daughter and just keep staring at her.

I've dated some fairly liberal women over the years, but a few have stood out as refusing to date non-white men. I had one threaten to break up with me when she found out the previous woman I had dated was black. Needless to say, we didn't last.

BTW, my ex-wife was Irish & Jewish, my wife now is Chinese (born & raised in China). The two women I dated before meeting my current wife were Filipino and African-American.