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TXlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 04:36 PM
Original message
American (US) orthography and pronunciation question
I'm betting Interrobang will have a lengthy answer here...

Doesn't most of the english-speaking world spell "-our" and "-ise" as opposed to "-or" and "-ize" (e.g. -- colour vs color, and utilise vs utilize); also defence vs defense, etc.

When did the US orthography arise, and why?

Also, regarding pronunciation: it seems to me that many Americans tend not to be able to differentiate between australian/english/scottish/etc accents. I assume this is in part, insular in origin (i.e. -- we hear US regional variation much more frequently, and rarely hear australian or british, so have a harder time distinguishing them), but i also think it's in part because our pronunciation is fundamentally different.

Why is this, and how did it come to be?
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FlashHarry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. Could be Noah Webster
He advocated simplifying spelling in the early 19th century. Interesting, by the way, that this is not always the case, e.g. we use an 's' to spell 'advertise,' yet we use a 'z' to spell 'utilize.'
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TXlib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. The -ize ending
Edited on Thu Aug-14-03 04:45 PM by TXlib
it's always -ize in US orthography if the root word is a -ity noun:

utility utilize
familiarity familiarize

Or if it's some other part of speech, made into a verb. Advertise is its own word.

personally, I usually spell it -ise, b/c I think -ize looks funny.
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FlashHarry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Interesting!
I love stuff like that. Have you ever read 'Mother Tongue,' by Bill Bryson? It's chock-full of interesting tidbits (or 'titbits,' as the Brits might say) on the English language.
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amberdisc Donating Member (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. Brit view
Both -ize and -ise are used in Britain and it varies with the publisher.

Some scholars prefer -ize (where appropriate) because the Greek word it comes from has a zeta, so it seems natural to use zed. -ize is less common in Britain but e.g. Oxford University Press uses it as a standard.

It doesn't surprise me that Americans find Australian and some British English difficult to distingiush. Australian is fundamentally much closer to British and especially London, although it arose from a mixing of many English dialects and came into existence in just one generation.

Note that to the British (as I am) Australian is *very* noticeably different. The problem we have is distinguishing New Zealand and Australian dialects. Ozzies and Kiwis recognize each other very easily I believe, but I can't tell the difference. So exposure and local familiarity are important.

People in Scotland easily recognize the region, even town, other Scots come from. I can only manage Glasgow/Edinburgh/Highlands (maybe).
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Kiwis and Aussies
Kiwis and Aussies sound completely different. I never confuse them. I have, on occasion, mistaken an Aussie for an English person. Usually if the trine isn't pronounced.

And don't forget South Africans. I often confuse that accent for an English one.
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FlashHarry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. When I worked as a copywriter in Europe
I used the British versions of most words. I did, however, follow Oxford and use 'ize' instead of 'ise' in most cases.
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wryter2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Double ll
I still use the double l in words like cancelled. I was taught to do that in my New England high school. Spell checkers kick it out at me all the time, so I may stop using it.
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FlashHarry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. 'travelled' gets me, too.
Spell-check usually catches it, though.
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amberdisc Donating Member (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. travelled
I had no idea any region of the USA used the double l in those words. This is one difference where the American is slightly simpler than Commonwealth spelling.

In some novel of New England I was surprised to see the word "geezer"! Do they use it there?

It´s a favourite among Londoners!

Note it´s from middle English "guise" (pronounced "gueez")which was a mask worn by actors. So it means a character.

Do any Americans use the word bloke?

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FlashHarry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You'll occasionally see the word 'jail' spelled (or spelt) 'gaol.'
That brings up 'spilt' instead of 'spilled,' too. For that matter, Brits study 'maths,' not 'math' and get charged with 'drink-driving,' not 'drunk-driving.' Don't even get me started on 'plant crossings' and 'dual carriageways.'
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amberdisc Donating Member (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. plants
Plant crossings are where triffids cross the road.

Drunk-driving is when the miscreant is still conscious.
Drink-driving is when s/he is basically gone.

:)
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FlashHarry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Heavy, too.
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amberdisc Donating Member (107 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-14-03 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. big triffids
Yeah, they get big triffids 'cos of all the rain!
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Bossy Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Another great sign: Pulling into Victoria Coach Station
passengers see a sign reading "Dead Slow," which pretty much described the entire coach journey.
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Bossy Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-15-03 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. In US, "geezer" is only used in the context "old geezer"
Goodness knows why.
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