A serious question for Bob Dylan fans: What is the appeal?

It's not that I don't like his music. I hate everything about it.

About 15 years ago I started looking deeper into his catalog thinking that maybe the stuff they play on the radio wasn't really his best work. I tried to be very open minded, but after listening to numerous tracks it only confirmed my opinion that the guy just plain sucks. His voice sounds like a dying goat. His guitar playing, while very competent, isn't anything you can't see at a club on any Saturday night. His harmonica abilities are as good as mine and I don't play the harmonica. Finally, his lyrics are as deep as a puddle in a parking lot.

So please help me here. What is it about his work that is so special to you? I absolutely don't get it.

:popcorn:

Just gorgeous. and then his words are open to interpretation, they can be anything to anyone at any time.

I've always said, "He can't sing, play the guitar, or play the harmonica, but he sure can write." I saw him a couple years ago and his voice was so bad, we couldn't figure out what songs he was was singing.

I can think of 7. Hendrix's version of "All Along the Watchtower" is my favorite.

Here's a link to 50 covers of Dylan songs:

http://www.pastemagazine.com/blogs/lists/2009/04/50-best-bob-dylan-covers-of-all-time.html

Nice to see 16 Horsepower, Nick Cave and Antony & The Johnsons get a mention in any list, but they forgot Ministry's version of Lay Lady Lay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms7hd4e_EFg

for some stuff. I can get tired of all the canned-million-times-played-over Dylan tunes, but some of his albums are treasures to hear, and the songs -- done by anyone, every which way. One I like to play with, when nobody can hear me, but one I don't remember by heart, is "Dirge," starts "I hate myself for loving you." The melody, lyrics, key it's done in, work very well for anyone whether or not you have a "singing" voice.

When I hear people talk about Dylan's voice, I think of the line "sing, while you say, but I just get bored ..." (Maggies Farm) His lack of melodic style sounds kind of rebellious, in a good way.



_______________
changed 'way' to 'say' ....

His whiney crappy voice and shitty guitar playing drive me crazy. Don't understand the appeal there.

His "I ain't got no voice and can barely carry a tune" style are just adorable. I'm not a humungous avid Neil Young listener myself, but some of his songs are some of my favorite-songs-of-all-time. WITH his voice.

Music isn't always about vocal ability. Talking about Bob Dylan and Neil Young, two of the worst vocalists to ever be recorded to the masses, and look how we made legends and icons out of both of them, we love what we love.

Neil Young was more in the picture when I was a teenager than Bob Dylan. The teen years music for all of us holds something special, I think. What were we listening to riding around in the car, or hanging out on the couch, maybe getting high and just being into the music as our thing we were doing.

..but I do like his "Blood On The Tracks" CD. Ever listen to it? I especially like his "Shelter From The Storm" track. Also like his "Subterranean Homesick Blues." Also, "Everybody Must Get Stoned" is kind of funny...

I think that maybe he could be compared to(maybe) a modern-day Arlo or Woody Guthrie for his time in some respects...back when folks songs - while maybe not all that 'fancy' at the time - still had a message to get across....(just my own opinion here ~)

Insomuch as singer-song writers are concerned...lots of good stuff out there. Right off the bat: James Taylor, Carole King, BOTH Van & Jim Morrison, Lyle Lovett, Bob Marley, John Lennon, John Mayer & Paul Simon spring to mind....

:thumbsup:

He is what makes the songs great for the most part.

I don't really like Dylan (like his lyrics, but that's about it), but I don't see the need to understand why others do like him. You don't have to get it, anymore than someone has to "get" why you like whatever it is you get into.

Two songs I do like his voice on are "Knocking on Heaven's Door" and "Lay Lady Lay."

Other than that, I don't listen to Bob Dylan songs, but I do listen to many great covers of his songs by people who can actually sing.

that he used.
The '50s were so vanilla and he was so different. And the songs that the music industry was putting out into 1963 or so had such inane lyrics.
Then came Dylan and the Beatles etc. And no longer were performers stuck in little boxes of performance they could o.

inspired by the pioneers, the pioneers themselves no longer sound quite so ground-breaking. We've been spoiled by the changes they innovated.

The Beatles are another good example. Hearing their early stuff, a young kid might wonder what all the screaming was about. And why the critics were wowed. But something as simple as the break in tempo at "...and when I touch you I feel happy inside" from I Want To Hold Your Hand had never been done before in a popular song. Two minutes of a straight, unvarying tempo, that was the rule about popular songs up until then. But after The Beatles, everybody did it.

And back to Dylan, THIS is why he still amazes:


I was in another lifetime one of toil and blood
When blackness was a virtue and the road was full of mud
I came in from the wilderness a creature void of form
"Come in" she said
"I'll give you shelter from the storm".

And if I pass this way again you can rest assured
I'll always do my best for her on that I give my word
In a world of steel-eyed death and men who are fighting to be warm
"Come in" she said
"I'll give you shelter from the storm".

Not a word was spoke between us there was little risk involved
Everything up to that point had been left unresolved
Try imagining a place where it's always safe and warm
"Come in" she said
"I'll give you shelter from the storm".

I was burned out from exhaustion buried in the hail
Poisoned in the bushes and blown out on the trail
Hunted like a crocodile ravaged in the corn
"Come in" she said
"I'll give you shelter from the storm".

Suddenly I turned around and she was standing there
With silver bracelets on her wrists and flowers in her hair
She walked up to me so gracefully and took my crown of thorns
"Come in" she said
"I'll give you shelter from the storm".

Now there's a wall between us something there's been lost
I took too much for granted got my signals crossed
Just to think that it all began on a long-forgotten morn
"Come in" she said
"I'll give you shelter from the storm".

Well the deputy walks on hard nails and the preacher rides a mount
But nothing really matters much it's doom alone that counts
And the one-eyed undertaker he blows a futile horn
"Come in" she said
"I'll give you shelter from the storm".
I've heard newborn babies wailing like a mourning dove
And old men with broken teeth stranded without love
Do I understand your question man is it hopeless and forlorn
"Come in" she said
"I'll give you shelter from the storm".

In a little hilltop village they gambled for my clothes
I bargained for salvation and they gave me a lethal dose
I offered up my innocence and got repaid with scorn
"Come in" she said
"I'll give you shelter from the storm".

Well I'm living in a foreign country but I'm bound to cross the line
Beauty walks a razor's edge someday I'll make it mine
If I could only turn back the clock to when God and her were born
"Come in" she said
"I'll give you shelter from the storm".



Yeah, lyrics like THAT...

I don't know how to justify my appreciation of his work. My Dad didn't like him much either. But for me it is the music, the voice, the lyrics. It's the whole that is larger than the combination of the pieces. It is also the phases he has gone through. I am going through a hard time now, and I see in his work that he has been there too.

except for country music.

These are civil rights songs:

Blowing in the Wind
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8U6Oh9uSY8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFvkhzkS4bw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBDdLgBO0Nw

The Hour that the Ship Comes in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXJlBGRLLWM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnELwV9Knwc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFWg_JlN0Mw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwAQzmEd9k0


This screams environment and nuclear war:

A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHrK6L91BgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4sMSSm0x2A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLdF1al6AU4


Or maybe you just had to be there:

Chimes of Freedom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAGJUbzlEMQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F9eUux5Ir8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3onnJuBS18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7TfXqLjzdA

Ballad of a Thin Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT_wj7VHvCk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C01uFk2-6Bk

Stuck Inside of Mobile with the Memphis Blues Again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ9LDBEtKK4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1Ic2-N8Vo0

It Ain't Me Babe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nADCKIT_Kbw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_evQruicQ50

proven to blow llama chunks. All other art is simply a matter of taste. An opinion. A pleasant, neutral, or unpleasant reaction to stimuli.

in short...

Country sucks, everything else is a matter of taste.

Also, while he's not a outstanding musician, he's an excellent talent scout who knows how to pick skilled help. I'd also argue that while his voice is subpar in the traditional sense, it can be very effective for some of his material. Last but not least, The "Royal Albert Hall" Concert is the best live rock and roll recording ever.

I might understand his voice not being to your taste, though I love it. But not to see the plaintive despair in Blowin' in the Wind, the vulnerable sensuality of Lay Lady Lay, the wicked humor in Leopardskin Pillbox Hat or Rainy Day Women...well, I'm sorry.

I loved the song and was surprised that it was Dylan. Like the OP, I've never been a fan and share his reasons. I've actually heard a few of his songs recently that I had not been aware of and they were pretty good, and again I had no idea it was him I was listening to.

I think he's written some amazing lyrics. And I think his melodies are great as well. I love hearing his songs performed by other people. But as for his own performances and recorded work I just don't enjoy it really at all.

But I also think the Beatles are one of the most overrated, shitty, boring, teeny bopper pop bands of all time.

http://youtu.be/n9v_feZAQAs

Haven't heard it in ages and I'm kvelling.

of the most influential songwriters of all time.

http://discovery.mnhs.org/MN150/index.php?title=Bob_Dylan

Edited to ad this link:


Master poet, caustic social critic and intrepid, guiding spirit of the counterculture generation
http://www.time.com/time/time100/artists/profile/dylan.html

He was the first guy to take music out of the tin pan alley, pop thing, Woody and Pete did the folk music but Bob got regular people into it. And then he took incredibly personal songs, populated wit people you know, or perhaps were and said, there is not THERE there for my music. He was rock and roll and country. And the blues, And bluegrass. He played music of America.

Hi,
We all have our tastes, but since you asked, here are some reasons.
I love the man and his music. Political songs, funny songs, sad songs, mean songs, story songs, mystical songs and all of the others that fit somewhere else. Also, his involvement in the Great Civil Rights Movement, he sang at the I Have a Dream speech. He refused to perform on the Ed Sullivan show because they wanted him to sing a different song, while the bad boys of rock n roll the Rolling Stones changed the lyrics to theirs to play it. He wrote Masters of War while the Beatles wrote I Want to Hold Your Hand. His acerbic wit, his relationship or lack thereof with the press. His cool clothes and his big hair. These are a few reasons why I like Bob Dylan.

Happy Birthday Bob!

Peace

:hi:

And if that doesn't explain it, then only Shatner can:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0hTtsqiFCc

Dylan resonates with me. The rest of my family can't stand him. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Cash had a great voice.

No one is more significant, not the Beatles, not the Stones, nobody.

Dylan entirely changed what popular music could do and be about. He created the modern protest song, he opened up what songwriters could write about, which had been pretty much restricted to trite love songs, to all kinds of topics. He introduced a Beat poetry influence into those lyrics, and reached back to American folksong traditions at the same time. Everyone copied him. He did talking songs long before hiphop had been invented.

It is all context. He did it first. And, he wrote song great songs.

...he's in the Top Ten or Five maybe, no matter what.

Personally, for overall absolute top influence on Pop Music of the last fifty years, I would nominate Les Paul.

Besides his musical achievements, his technical development of the electric guitar, and especially multi-track recording, had an almost immeasurable influence on the evolution of Pop Music, regardless of genre.

In any case, Happy Seven Oh to Bob! And may he be Forever Young!!

Hi,
Interesting post, I did not realize he (or his producer?) was such an innovator on the technical side of things. If you could post here more information or send me a mail I would appreciate it.

Keep on keeping on!

Peace

they did a segment on him with lots of stuff from the Pacifica archives

http://www.democracynow.org/

Well, I like the first two more than the last two, but I think he's fine on the harmonica. He's certainly not one of the greatest guitarists ever, but then again that's never been a big part of the appeal.

I don't agree with your assessment of the lyrics, which (while some are better than others) are often insightful or witty or otherwise rewarding. While his lyrics are generally more highly-regarded, he's also a good songwriter on the musical end of things as well. I understand the reaction to the voice--it's not usually a conventionally pleasant-sounding singing voice--but he's got a pretty good range and he's got good control, and so he is able to use his voice to good effect as both an instrument and a mechanism of characterization within a given song.

Don't like his singing OR his songs, but I
get a kick out of his "persona".

Came from a
middle-class Jewish
family and changed into "Bob Dylan".

The word play, the truthfulness, ambiguity and irony in many of his songs of that period are mind blowing. His voice actually wasn't bad then, too.

Overall, he helped to transform pop music into a genuine artform.

A lot of his material after that time is hit or miss for me, but the hits (like his his song "Tangled Up in Blue" and his album "Oh Mercy") are brilliant, imo.

To me, Bob put his songs together in new and unique ways. I didn't really appreciate this so much until I started playing guitar, but Dylan songs are lots of fun to play. The songs are so simple and elegant, you'd think the first guy to write songs on an acoustic guitar would have written them. But no one did. It took Bob to do it.

Writing a simple, melodic song that has never been written before is extremely difficult. But such songs flowed from Dylan as naturally as breathing.

And I think his lyrics fit the songs well, even when they were figurative and open to various interpretations.

There are great performers, and Dylan isn't one. But a great songwriter, he is.

If his voice is an obstacle that can't be overcome for you, then listen to the covers. Then, you can decide for yourself whether or not Dylan's songwriting is for the Byrds.

it may be, it probably is, a type of performance art, but bob dylan's voice is deliberately rough-hewn, this is the instrument he's using

there's a visceral directness, hmmm, a type of magic

some of the lyrics, written down, look tortured, it isn't the words, it's the whole package, which is why i'm invariably disappointed by the "covers," even the covers by those who know and understand his work well, like joan baez

there is much too much "polished, mass-produced" stuff out there, much of it listenable only if you're under age 12 or so

there are those who can't see the art in a picasso drawing, to them, it's scribble because of the directness and the simplicity, dylan may be the musical equivalent of picasso here

the thing is, you can't really "get it" by being told what we're hearing, it's something that's instant...the first time i heard dylan's voice as a small child, i knew i was hearing magic, something different from the herd

i mean you can like polished stuff and the polished stuff NOT be crap -- there are still people who enjoy chamber music, say -- but i don't like the polished mass-produced crap NOR do i like the polished "great" music, at some point, all that perfection gags me, we have beautifully produced
music all around us, what's special about THAT?

but let me hear a bird sing, let me hear a dylan or a johnny cash sing, and my heart rises up

I had bought her album (I think it was on "Honest Lullaby") and she did Simple Twist of Fate. And I went "Aha! THAT's how the melody goes!" And yes, she was to canned and mass-produced but I didn't really hear that song as being that beautiful until I heard her do it. It is one I used to try to play with on the guitar, with the guitar book to watch the chord changes and semi-remember the words, but only after I heard Joan show me how the melody is supposed to go.

I don't know if loving Bob Dylan came 'instant' to me, I think the first song that grabbed me was Knockin on Heaven's Door, I actuallly went out and bought the 45 rpm. It was back in those days.

People are of many different vibrations. I remember a galfriend of mine said opera music brought her to tears. It about brings me crawling outa my skin. I like a variety of music but not EVERY kind of music . . . .

I think discussing this kind of thing with music here is fascinating. (We really do need a separate thread to do justice to the Neil Young topic.)

of his you've heard but I can't imagine you've heard anything prior to 1980 of his that you could consider to be "as deep as a puddle in a parking lot."

Have you heard Visions of Johanna? Just go read the lyrics somewhere and tell me if you've ever read better lyrics to a rock song ever.

If that's their view of the lyrics, which are, at their best, windows into the mysteries of the ages,and virtually unparalleled in their depth and intelligence for that time (or any time) then the person either isn't listening or has their mind smugly made up for whatever reasons .

He's not that good of a singer, ok musically, but dammit - I just love his stuff because I grew up with him.

(I don't like Dylan either - probably because I didn't grow up with him)

And thanks for not beating me up too much.

I really did want to know why people are so passionate about Bob and his work.