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VoteClark Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 02:32 AM
Original message
Why don't you Like Lieberman?
Lieberman is not my favorite candidate. But he is leading in the polls. Why do DUers not like him? Why do you not like Lieberman? Is there anyone in here that picks him first, or are we not representative of the Democratic Party as a whole?


J4Clark
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 02:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. Easy m'kay
Edited on Mon Aug-04-03 02:35 AM by JohnKleeb
He is a hawk
He is very pro censorship
I dont like his bias on Israel with Israel/Palestine and I am netural
He gives people who opposed the war a hard time
Look I may be in the extreme liberal wing of the party man, but my grandmother who is my political mentor and a moderate too doesnt like him, shes not DLC I know, and she supports Kerry.
It's easy m'kay
instead of collebarting with the republican assholes
just say m'kay
m'kay lol
Sorry I got a liking for south park.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Pro-Censorship? Please name ONE censorship bill Lieberman has sponsored
Just one will do.

As far as I know, Lieberman has never endorsed government censorship. I know that Lieberman has pressed for the FCC to regulate ADVERTISING of adult oriented entertainment on programs with large child viewership, which strikes me as entirely reasonable. He's also criticized the video game industry for games that glorify rape and violence. Again, this strikes me as entirely reasonable. But I don't recall any instance in which Lieberman has endorsing governmental censorship of the CONTENT of movies, records, video games, etc.
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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. his "patriotic academics" work with Lynn Cheney
is certainly pro-self-censorship.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. I agree completely, JohnKleeb!
Every point you make there I agree with completely and wholeheartedly.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. He's not leading in the polls. He's only gone down, except in SC I think.
My problem with him is that I think he has absolutely no charisma, he supports school vouchers, he supported the stupid Iraq war even without WMD, he acts pious which is a turn off to me, and I didn't appreciate his personal war on violent video games.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. yep and the fact that he sides with the christian right at times
which is a :puke:
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George_Bonanza Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. I hate Liberman b/c
He tried to take away my computer games.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Even More Pro-Likkud than Bush!
He was criticizing Bush for "leaning on" the Israelis in the "roadmap" proposal.
It is clear that even the most gentle pressure on Israel would be verboten in a
Lieberman administration. Would he condone the sort of "final solution"
that his Israeli namesake proposed?
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lcordero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 03:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. These people that use "National Security" as an issue
are one-issue people. They are trying to keep issues like the economy, education and healthcare off of the table because they are not going to do anything about it.
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bodhisattava Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
7. Lieberman is a repulsive toad
Let me list the reasons.This is only a partial list:
1.His despicable role during the impeachment of a popular democratic president.
2. His shilling for the accounting lobby ( Andersen, Ernst & Young, etc) during the Enron scandal screwing thousands of middle class Americans of their life savings.
3.His support for the war in Iraq even after the original rationales have been exposed as lies ( he now calls it a just war).
4. His justification of the deaths of the soldiers and the civilians in Iraq as necessary sacrifices.
5. His collaboration with Lynne Cheney in intimidating College Professors.
6.His toadying up to dick Cheney during the VP debates.
7. His lack of passion and anger during the stealing of the presidency in Florida.

Need one say more.
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Aaron Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 04:46 AM
Response to Original message
8. I've got a feeling we could get someone more progressive in his place
Isn't Connecticut a pretty good Dem state? I'd figure we could get someone better on the issues, like Wyden or Feingold or someone. Maybe I'm wrong? If he was competing for a seat in Indiana or Louisiana or something like that I'd find his views much more palatable - I would still think he's wrong on war, civil liberties, church/state, and probably some other things - but I'd be able to excuse those things because he'd have to get elected in a more conservative state.
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bread_and_roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Excuse those things?
...and what, pray tell, good does it do to have a "Democrat" in office who supports "these things?" People say things like this then wonder why people vote Green.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. Holy Joe polls well because they remember his name from 2000
It is still early in the primary process. Once the other candidates get some attention, Lieberman will fade to fifth place or quit.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
11. Too unbeliving in anything. He is too far right to be a good Dem.
He is like Ford, they are fill ins.If he wins I wil vote for him, and that is because I talk but can not say I will not vote for a DEm as I do not wish a Rep to get in.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
12. His views
What else?
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genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. His attitude towards the Middle East seems
a little racist. His eagerness to go into Afghanistan and Iraq and kill off Arabs came across as a bit extreme. There is also his strong support for the dictator. My opinion of him has improved lately. He is much more pro-environment than Dean, Edwards or Graham. He did not support Yucca Mountain. He hasn't yet advocated doing away with the safeguards in the legal system, although he did vote for U.S.A.- Patriot and Homeland Security. He has not said that executing innocent people is an acceptable risk and that puts him above one of the other candidates. I don't think he would ever feel this way as he is an attorney and attorneys tend to respect the rights of the individuals caught up in the criminal justice system and to hate injustices. I would reluctantly vote for him if he got the nomination.
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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
14. Let me count the ways . . .
A censorious, moralistic scold who apparently thinks playing a violent video game is worse than killing thousands of innocent Iraqis in real life . . .

A traitorous prude who piled on the condemnation of Bill Clinton, who turns out to be one of the most squeaky-clean politicians ever in DC, because of a very short-lived and mild affair . . .

A snivelling turncoat who had the chance to stuff Dick Cheney's snarling face in the truth in the VP debate in 2000, but instead smiled and nodded when Cheney said his fortune had been made "in the private sector" (fulfulling sweetheart government contracts for the Department of Defense he just left the leadership of). . .

A yellow-bellied quisling who urged Gore to drop his challenge to the Supreme Court selection of W. and to concede the Presidency . . .

A bought and paid for shill for the insurance industry . . .

A warmongering idiot who thinks that by confusing the electorate by claiming that the votes in the Congress last fall were "authorizing Bush to go to war" hurts the other members of Congress who weren't voting to give Bush unfettered permission in Iraq (Kerry supporters back me up here) will lead to the electorate embracing him as just as warlike as their savior W . . .

A fiscally irresponsible spendthrift who never ceases to praise (and vote for!) Bush's massive tax cuts. . .

Finally, a craven closet Republican who would seem to enjoy nothing more than to hand the election to Bush in 2004, who decries Dean's tactics of actually disagreeing with Bush . . .

I think that about covers it for now. Honestly, I've tried to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but he is a real a**hole. He always comes up short.
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SGrande Donating Member (374 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 02:44 PM
Response to Original message
15. He is Evvvvvvvil!
EVVVVVVVVILLLLLLLL!


:evilgrin:
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. And he looks evil, like Senator Palpatine, too.
That having been said, I'll take him any day over Bush, Cheney, Frist, or any of those Horsemen of the Apocalypse. I'd take Lieberman over Whitman, Powell, or McCain as well.
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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Wow, you're right
I wonder if that subliminal message has been playing out in my head. "Pick up your lightsaber and strike me down."
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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
16. kick
Come on, there must be more reasons than this . . .
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election_2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. comprehensive list

  • He has teamed up with George W. Bush and Rick Santorum to rally for PUBLICLY-FUNDED “faith-based initiatives.” He has also sponsored his own legislation to give taxpayer-funded vouchers to parents who wish to send their children to parochial schools (“Holy Joe, Corporate Joe, G.I. Joe: Will the real Senator Lieberman please stand up?,” Doug Ireland, LA Weekly, 7/11-17/03).




  • He was a stronger supporter of Bush’s 2002 Iraq resolution than Gephardt was.




  • In fact, Lieberman teamed up with Trent Lott in 1998 to push for the Iraqi Liberation Act, which made the goal of regime change in Iraq an official part of U.S. foreign policy (“Man of Peace?”, Dan Levine, The Valley Advocate, 2/27/03).




  • He has opposed letting patients sue HMOs for punitive damages (“Does Joe Lieberman Really Hold the Moral High Ground?,” David Morse, The San Francisco Chronicle, 8/23/00).




  • Lieberman supported a watered-down version of “Star Wars” promoted by Clinton/Gore, even when there were billions of dollars unallocated that could be spent on social improvements across the globe (“Does Joe Lieberman Really Hold the Moral High Ground?,” David Morse, The San Francisco Chronicle, 8/23/00).




  • He supports the death penalty for minors.




  • In 2000 on the campaign trail with Gore, Lieberman advocated tapping into the Strategic Oil Reserve.




  • He has voted for federal support of private school vouchers (after being picked as Gore’s running mate, Lieberman later claimed he would support Gore’s anti-voucher stance, but also said he would privately push for vouchers).




  • While Lieberman was Chairman of the Senate Government Affairs committee, did he ever bother to investigate Bush’s role in the California energy crisis, as he’d promised he would? No . . .




  • In fact, while chairing the Government Affairs committee, Lieberman failed to subpoena any Bush Administration officials, or conduct any degree of meaningful investigation into the White House’s involvement with Enron (“The Tyranny of Triangulation: Can Joe Lieberman Lead?,” Nicholas Confessore, The American Prospect, 5/20/02)




  • He voted for Fast Track.




  • Lieberman and former U.S. Senator Sam Nunn (D-GA) were two integral designers of the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy (which offers no protections for closeted gay soldiers who are harassed due to other soldiers’ bigoted suspicions).




  • He teamed up with Hillary Clinton to push for the passage of the Media Marketing Accountability Act of 2001 (S.790; H.R. 2246), which could give the federal government greater power to regulate and dictate “acceptability standards” for entertainment content.




  • He was a top advocate of the Biomaterials Access Act, which gave large corporations such as Dow and DuPont immunity from lawsuits relating to their defective medical implants that they manufactured (“Holy Joe, Corporate Joe, G.I. Joe: Will the real Senator Lieberman please stand up?,” Doug Ireland, LA Weekly, 7/11-17/03).




  • He voted for several Republican “balanced budgets.”




  • Lieberman initially praised Proposition 209 (which banned affirmative action in California) in 1995, but then backed off of his support for the referendum after being publicly denounced by Jesse Jackson and other civil rights groups. So that means he either doesn’t bother to do his research on some issues, or he only defends his convictions if it’s politically convenient for him? (“Mildly Ambitious: Is Joe Lieberman Up for 2004?,” James Traub, The New York Times, 6/10/01)




  • He supported the 1989 capital gains tax cut (“Who is Joe Lieberman?,” Dr. Manning Marable, Black Light Online, 9/21/00).




  • Joe Lieberman not only supported John Ashcroft’s plan to privatize the TIPS (Terrorism Information and Prevention System) program (which allows citizens to phone a hotline to report suspicious signs of terrorism), but as Chairman of the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee, Lieberman blocked a Homeland Security bill amendment by Senator Pat Leahy (D-VT) that would have prohibited the federal funding of programs that encouraged citizens to spy on other citizens (“New Life for Operation TIPS,” Dave Lindorff, Salon, 8/30/02; “Holy Joe, Corporate Joe, G.I. Joe: Will the real Senator Lieberman please stand up?,” Doug Ireland, LA Weekly, 7/11-17/03).




  • He pushed for corporate stock options.




  • In a 1998 speech (documented by the Congressional Record on 7/10/98), Lieberman stated that not all people who condemn homosexuality should be accused of bigotry, because, according to Lieberman, some of these people with anti-gay religious beliefs have “sincerely held morally based views” (“Defending Our Morality,” Paul Varnell, Chicago Free Press, 8/16/00).




  • He voted to increase the government’s power to wiretap cell phones.




  • Senator Lieberman referred to Iraqi National Congress leader Ahmed Chalabi as “a person of strength, principle and real national commitment.” Chalabi was convicted on more than 30 counts of embezzlement, fraud, and theft, and is a friend of Richard Perle. Speculation remains that the Bush Administration hopes to ultimately install Chalabi as Iraqi president in a puppet regime (“Our man in Iraq,” Joe Conason, The New York Observer, 4/09/03).




  • He has supported the privatization of Social Security.




  • Lieberman has a recent ACLU voting record of only 25% (far lower than his opponents for the Democratic nomination).




  • Mere hours after his presidential candidacy announcement, Lieberman’s campaign began spamming web-users via a bulk-mailing service called Constant Contact (distributed by Roving Software), which sent unsolicited pro-Lieberman email spam to individuals whose names were involuntarily collected - - including the inbox of Electronic Frontier Foundation founder John Gilmore. Lieberman has publicly condemned electronic spamming and claims to be anti-spam - - yet when Lieberman sponsored the CAN-SPAM legislation, he and its other sponsors created a loophole for themselves (and their political campaigns) in which anti-spam legislation would only apply to commercial outlets (“Perspective: Hail to the . . . spammer-in-chief?,” Declan McCullagh, CNET News, 1/20/03).




  • He voted to reject the use of racial statistics in death penalty appeals.




  • He voted against a 1999 pay increase for servicemen and servicewomen (despite his supposed “praise” of the U.S. military under the Clinton Administration.




  • He supported Clinton’s military base closures in May of 1999 (even though Lieberman claimed to support maintenance of the U.S.’s (supposedly) strong military when he ran for vice-president in 2000.




  • In July 2003, Lieberman skipped an appearance in front of the NAACP in order to fundraise for his presidential campaign in New York and tape an appearance on The O’Reilly Factor (“Gephardt, Lieberman hit bumps on trail,” Glen Johnson, The Boston Globe, 7/21/03)




  • He joined with Bill Bennett to sponsor the “Silver Sewer Awards” for “immoral” video games.




  • During a 2003 presidential campaign stop at a diner in Stamford, Connecticut, Lieberman’s bodyguards removed a young activist named Chris Sare from the diner after Sare - - cattily yet non-violently and non-agressively - - took a sarcastic verbal dig at Lieberman while shaking his hand (“His Moment of Truth,” Michael Leahy, The Washington Post, 6/29/03). So is this how the Lieberman campaign is going to handle dissent - - simply eliminate it from having a public voice?




  • He voted against a 1995 proposal to increase the ban on Congressional gifts from special interests.




  • In 1998, the NAACP gave Lieberman a grade of “D” on their annual report card (“Holy Joe, Corporate Joe, G.I. Joe: Will the real Senator Lieberman please stand up?,” Doug Ireland, LA Weekly, 7/11-17/03).




  • From 1994 to 1999, Lieberman served as co-chair for the Center for Jewish and Christian values, a project of the International Fellowship of Christians and Jews (featuring the likes of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell) and a group that has been known to structure foreign policy based on biblical prophecy (“What About Those End Times, Mr. President?,” Edward Ericson, The Hartford Advocate, 1/16/03).




  • Lieberman and anti-gay Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA) are co-chairmen of The Empowerment Network, an organization that spearheads faith-based initiatives and culturally conservative solutions to social ills (“Holy Joe, Corporate Joe, G.I. Joe: Will the real Senator Lieberman please stand up?,” Doug Ireland, LA Weekly, 7/11-17/03).




  • He has supported the U.S. sales of F-15s to Israel and Saudi Arabia.




  • Citigroup, the top lender of Enron, is the Lieberman’s largest financial donor, having contributed $112,000 to Lieberman’s campaigns since 1997 FTC (“Lieberman feels the sting of criticism over Enron,” Don Von Natta, Jr., The New York Times, 1/21/02). How does Lieberman expect to credibly investigate Enron when his campaign has benefited from Enron’s cash flow?




  • He voted against cutting U.S. nuclear weapons below START treaty levels (like the U.S. doesn’t already have enough nuclear weapons that could potentially obliterate the entire world with some to spare!).




  • Lieberman promoted Charles Murray’s (author of The Bell Curve: Intelligence and Class Structure in American Life) idea to relocate children of single mothers on welfare into federally-run orphanages (“Holy Joe, Corporate Joe, G.I. Joe: Will the real Senator Lieberman please stand up?,” Doug Ireland, LA Weekly, 7/11-17/03).




  • He supported the 1994 amendment authored by Jesse Helms that cut off federal funding to any school district that utilized educational materials that “supported homosexuality” (“Who is Joe Lieberman?,” Dr. Manning Marable, Black Light Online, 9/21/00).




  • He has consistently sponsored and supported efforts, proposals, and legislation to induce censorship of the Entertainment Industry, which includes his 2001 proposal to fine the FTC (“Bush Just Says No To Hollywood Probe,” Pamela McClintock, Variety, 6/22/01).




  • He co-founded, along with Lynn Cheney, the American Council of Trustees and Alumni (an organization known for blackballing college professors who are “too liberal”) in 1995.




  • He was the only Democrat to oppose the nomination of Sheldon Hackney (former President at the University of Pennsylvania) to become president of the National Endowment for the Humanities (“Who is Joe Lieberman?,” Dr. Manning Marable, Black Light Online, 9/21/00).




  • Lieberman - - aided by William F. Buckley - - was endorsed by The National Review during his 1988 U.S. Senate race against Lowell Weicker . . . a liberal Republican who despised Nixon. In fact, Buckley started a PAC on Lieberman’s behalf for his U.S. Senate campaign (“Ask the Angels’ Scorn - - Joe Lieberman: Yankee Tartuffe,” Ross Vachon, CounterPunch, 2/25/03; “Scoop Jackson Democrat: Senator Joseph Lieberman’s Case for Economic and Military Strength,” Adam Meyerson, Policy Review, Summer 1990, No. 53; “Holy Joe, Corporate Joe, G.I. Joe: Will the real Senator Lieberman please stand up?,” Doug Ireland, LA Weekly, 7/11-17/03).

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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Wow! I'm impressed
Why doesn't this stuff show up on Project Vote Smart?
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election_2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. simple answer
Because Project Vote Smart only deals with quantitative data (raw numbers).
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-04-03 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
23. Gov. Dean's response to Joe Lieberman (pretty much sums it up for me)
...
Meanwhile, Dean struck back at a primary rival, Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman, who warned on Friday that Dean’s opposition to the war in Iraq and his push for complete repeal of the Bush tax cuts could be a “ticket to nowhere’’ for Democrats on Election Day 2004.

“I disagree with Joe,” Dean said. “He’s served this country well, but he’s been on the wrong side of a lot of issues and I simply disagree with his assessment. I think my policies are a ticket to the White House.’’
...
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/Main.asp?SectionID=25&SubSectionID=377&ArticleID=85948
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=11856&mesg_id=11856
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