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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 09:54 PM
Original message
On Dean's record
Edited on Wed Aug-27-03 09:57 PM by BayCityProgressive
I guess I have railed on Dean more than I have other candidates and I think it is just because I am soooo sick of hearing about him nonstop, it seems like we never hear about the others. Anyhow, I just was looking over his record again and saw that under his leadership child abuse dropped dramatically and he provided childcare to many who before did not have it. This is a huge plus to me because child advocacy is very important to me. I just thought I would post something positive.
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dorktv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you! Hugs!
Dean has done a lot for kids in Vermont...Did you hear about the post-birth visits? He got a program where every mom had the option of being visited by a nurse a few weeks after giving birth. They manage head off a lot of problems that way and it cost about a 100 bucks a pop. Now compare that to how much we pay for prisoners in jail. :)
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helleborient Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
30. I heard that in Chicago...
and thought that was amazing! Something that should be done across the country.
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dajabr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks for saying that BCP!
Edited on Wed Aug-27-03 10:07 PM by dajabr
This and Healthcare were to be the major planks in his platform before Bush's Iraq Adventure...

Here's the record:

Child Custody Governor Dean signed a law that requires judges to consider evidence of abuse when determining parental rights in divorce cases.

Child Support Governor Dean signed the Abuse Prevention and Child Support law which requires abusers to pay child support and living expenses to spouses who request court protection and have no other means of support.

Confidentiality Governor Dean signed a law entitled the Address Confidentiality for Victims of Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault and Stalking, known as the “Safe at Home” program that offers victims of domestic violence, sexual assault and stalking a free and confidential mailing address through the office of the Secretary of State.

Government Involvement Governor Dean signed an executive order enhancing state assistance to victims of domestic violence. Efforts include raising awareness of domestic violence in local workplaces, providing state employees access to a 24-hour domestic violence resource hotline, and granting state employees who are victims of domestic violence time off from their jobs to seek counseling, medical assistance or alternate housing.

Public Education Governor Dean included information about domestic violence on the paycheck of every state employee.

Improving Community Response Governor Dean created the Domestic Violence Fatality Review Commission to examine domestic violence fatalities, identify strengths and weaknesses in the community response to domestic violence, educate the public about intervention and prevention, and recommend policies to reduce fatalities due to domestic violence.

Child Abuse During Governor Dean’s tenure, Vermont was the first state to institute a statewide protocol for abuse investigations. In that time the incidence of physical and sexual abuse of children declined 45%, including a 64% decline in physical abuse of victims younger than 4 and a 43% decline in physical abuse victims younger than 7. The decline in child sexual abuse was even more dramatic, with a 72% decline in victims younger than 4 and 84% decline in victims younger than 7.

“Healthy Families Visionary Leadership Award” Presented by Prevent Child Abuse America to Governor Dean in March 2002.

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer?pagename=policy_record_health_domesticviolence

edit to add that they still are major issues for him!
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. These are all good.
He should focus on these issues more. We need as many women voters as possible. God knows we are losing with the white males.
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sfecap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. He talks about this in every speech he makes.
n/t
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roughsatori Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. That's great a positive
It seems that some here (see the Clark supporter Poll thread) have stooped to out and out lies. It is disgusting. Thanks for the postiive statement about a Democratic candidate.
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BayCityProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. if Dean's
only accomplishment as President were to curb domestic violence/child abuse nationwide by 40% that would be a huge enough victory for the Left and a reason to elect him. This is a very positive thing. I also believe that until we reduce neglect and abuse in the inner cities we will never curb our inner city problems.
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dajabr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Yes, and he links early help for families and children..
To the Prisons issue - another inner city problem...

This process involved difficult conversations with state officials, scaling back spending
on programs I cared about. It was during one of these conversations that the
Commissioner of Corrections came to me asking for a 14% budget increase. Everyone
else, including those who provide crucial programs like health care and education, was
being asked to cut spending, but prisons -- the most expensive and least effective
social service investment we make -- needed more money.

My view of social spending changed in that instant. Because studies show that any
competent kindergarten teacher can make a pretty good guess about the five kids in
his or her class most likely to end up in prison, I decided to focus Vermont's efforts and
money on new families with very young babies and children. Surely money spent
before a child developed problems would be better spent than after, I reasoned.
Today in Vermont, we invest in our children. We visit every child and new mother in the
hospital at the time of birth. We offer home visits two weeks after discharge to talk
about everything from nutrition to housekeeping to substance abuse to the value of
reading. Last year 91% of moms accepted our visit. While most of those families didn't
need help, the ones who did got the assistance before the child turned one, not when
the child showed up in kindergarten with serious problems. I believe that one day this
program will result in much lower incarceration rates in Vermont. But the good news is
that in the first seven or eight years, we have already seen child abuse drop by 43% in
the 0-6 age group, and child sexual abuse drop by 70%. Combine this with what is
essentially universal health care for all Vermonters under 18 and one of the largest drops
in teen pregnancy in the country, and we have a record on children to be proud of.


http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/DocServer/deanforamerica_children.pdf?docID=102&AddInterest=1027
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 11:06 PM
Response to Original message
7.  Not true
Edited on Wed Aug-27-03 11:10 PM by Nicholas_J
Not one person benefited from ANYTHING Dean did regarding healthcare in Vermont.

Every person who recieved increses to medicaid and insurance for children did it under programs made available in EVERY state under plans initiated by Bill CLinton and the democrats in Congress.

I have defied Dean supporters to come up with VERMONT STATE legialtion initiated or passed by Dean regarding such medical insurance but they can find none. Everything mde available to children in Vemront was made available under a bill initially written by John Kerry, and passed over to a bipartisan comittee where it became the Kennedy Kerry Act of 1996. Dean then utilized a subchapter 1115 exemption to allow him to utilize unspent federal funds from other ares such as transportation to place into the health care programs.

Dean had absolutely NOTHING to do with these programs or facilitating their availabiliry, It was a federally based program, start to finish, and Dean only increased the total coverage for of Vermonters receiving health care from the day he entered office to the day he left by a mere seven tenths of one percent.


Again...lets see what a commission set up by Dean and made up of Deans own appointees had to say about the real state of Health Care in Vermont in Deans last years.


Governor's Bipartisan Commission

On Health Care Availability & Affordability

Final Report

I. Authority, Scope

A. On January 24, 2001, Governor Howard Dean issued an executive order establishing a Special Governor's Bipartisan Commission on Health Care Availability and Affordability.

1. The Governor appointed former Human Services Secretary Cornelius Hogan to chair the commission and appointed current Human Services Secretary Jane Kitchel and Commissioner of Banking, Insurance, Securities and Health Care Administration Elizabeth Costle to serve on the commission.

2. The House Speaker subsequently appointed Representatives Thomas F. Koch, R-Barre Town, who is chair of the Health and Welfare Committee, and Frank M. Mazur, R-South Burlington, who is vice-chair of the Appropriations Committee.

3. The Senate Committee on Committees appointed Senators Nancy I. Chard, D-Windham County, who is chair of the Health and Welfare Committee, and Cheryl P. Rivers, D-Windsor County, who was chair of the Finance Committee...


A. Our commission is made up of people who have spent years listening to testimony and otherwise studying the problems of health care availability and affordability. We have differences, some of them passionate differences, in our political philosophies, and it should come as no surprise that we differ on some of the directions reform should take. Although we have taken a substantial amount of new testimony during the past nine months, our real task has been to try to find common recommendations, despite our philosophical differences.2

B. Based on what we have learned, we do agree on this: Health care in Vermont is near a state of crisis -- some of us would say it is already in crisis -- and all health care sectors are on edge. We also note that many of these problems are national or even global in scope and that our abilities to solve them at the state level are limited.

C. Health care costs in Vermont, now exceeding $2 billion a year, are of a sufficient magnitude, however, and are increasing at a sufficient rate to place state government itself in jeopardy, including every program for which it appropriates money. By comparison, Vermonters budgeted $1.8 billion for all state government services in FY 2001 (not including federal funds).3

We are rapidly approaching the point at which these costs will directly conflict with our ability to do such things as to maintain roads and bridges, for example, or to provide cost-effective services to our infants and children, to promote agriculture and tourism, or to provide any other services our citizens have come to expect.

D. We do not have a health care system in Vermont.4 That means:

1. No one is in control.

2. No one is responsible for ensuring that high-quality medical care is adequate for the needs of the public.

3. No one ensures that medical charges are appropriate or that they are paid in full.5

4. There is a "disconnect" between the consumer receiving health care and the entity paying the bill. Consumers are shielded from the cost of the service.

5. There is no global budgeting or targeted growth planning for health care in Vermont.

6. There is little in the way of public accountability for the performance of health care institutions, or for their long-term planning.

7. Although administrative costs, including those associated with government paperwork burdens, have reached an unacceptable level, no one has been able to do anything about it.

E. This commission does not recommend the Single Payer option, even though we have been told by The Lewin Group that it could cover all Vermonters, including more than 51,000 currently uninsured, for 5 percent less than what we are collectively paying now.6 Some of our opposition is on philosophical grounds, but in practical terms, we reject that option for a variety of reasons...


http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache:aC9QzqwOEmkJ:www.state.vt.us/health/commission/docs/report/mainreport.doc+%22Howard+Dean%22+%22Incentive+Plan+for+Medicaid%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

This is NOT anti-Dean literature. It does not come from an anti Dean source it comes from a group of Deans closest assiciates in Vermont Government, appointed by Dean to look at the state of Health Care under Dean himself.


Even the governor’s closest allies in the Senate ignored him. Sen. Nancy Chard, D-Windham, recommended restoring $440,000 to one of the pharmaceutical assistance programs and the Senate voted 22-7 to go along with her.

“I’ve become convinced that we have a philosophical difference between the governor, the Republican House and this Senate,” said Senate President Pro Tempore Peter Shumlin, D-Windham.

“The governor and the Republican House want to balance this budget on the backs of our most vulnerable Vermonters. The Senate wants to balance this budget on the backs of the pharmaceutical companies who are charging too much for drugs.”

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/46513.html

This article iteself points out to Nancy Chard, one of the comittte members being considered one of Deans closest associates.


That is the problem with Dean and his supporters. Both give credit where none is due, and even Vermonters buy his liescabout having been responsible for the few additional children covered under Medicaid, nad changes made to medicaid laws in order to allow more children to be covered.

Dr Dynsaur, waqs originally a separate Vermont State program to provide children who did not have health insurance to get it, Dean moved it out from under state jurisdiction and placed it under the federal Kid Care program It is exactly the same program that is available for children under medicaid in all states.

The most dangerous part about Deans campaign is that it is far more filled with lies about HIS supposed accomplishements that are simply untrue.

IT is a shame that American politics has ben reduced to such a popularity contest that the person who puts on the slcikest commercials, get the higher polls.






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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Speaking of lying. I've never seen you admit you are wrong, Nick (n/t)
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. More bizarre tales from Nick
Nick you live in Florida or so you say. I live in Ohio. I'll tell you what. Go to your Medicaid office and I'll go to mine. Tell them you make 150% of the poverty level. Report back if you get your Medicaid. If you do, and have a scanned letter from them proving that Florida does this I will apologize now for calling your post a bizarre tale. I am betting I won't have to.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. 150 percent level IS
Edited on Thu Aug-28-03 12:10 AM by Nicholas_J
The cutoff. Same as Vermont... sorry go to Vermonts page to see if you are elegible for Medicaid and click on the link to take you to the page to see if you qualify, and you go stright to the FEDERAL medicaid program page for qualification. The same qualifications FOR EVERY STATE.

I am disabled been though the entire process, qualfied and YOU ARE WRONG.

I also filled out the Vermont page forms and the data came up exactly the same benefits as undewr Federal Medicaid.

Sorry, 150 percent poverty level and below qualifies you for medicaid.
In EVERY STATE OF THE NATION. Dean braggin about doing for the county what he did in Vermont is stating that he did nothing.

Oddly enough. Vermonts higher minimum wage makes it HARDER to qualify.

Vermont has NO separate program from MEDICAID, and has NO abilityn to change the programs limits of poverty levels NONE WHATSOEVER. It must abide by ALL federal limitations to utilize the program.Every state is BOUND by federal limits and does not get to CREATE its own set of rules or limitations.

Vermont has no special state health care program to augment medicaid

In Vermont, due to Deans overwhelming lack of planning, the levels for the childrens programs have dropped, as all state coverage has since Bush came to office. What one must do is look back at what existed while Dena was in office, and Clinton still president: but again, Deans reaction to FEDEAL CUTS TO MECAID were this:

Medicaid cuts will affect thousands of Vermonters
January 23, 2002

By DAVID MACE

Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER — Tens of thousands of Vermonters would see their state health care benefits rolled back or cut off completely under Gov. Howard Dean’s proposed budget, which seeks to wring $16.5 million in savings from Medicaid.

In an effort to curb costs in a rapidly expanding part of the social services budget, Dean is proposing to require many people who got coverage under his expansions of Medicaid programs to pay for a greater share of their health care.

Medicaid is the state-run program that uses both state and federal money to provide benefits to the poor and disabled. Over the past several years Dean has expanded the programs by allowing participation by Vermonters with incomes higher than the federal guidelines.

Under the proposed budget, about 3,200 elderly or disabled Vermonters who get half the cost of long-term drugs paid for under a program called VScript Expanded would see their benefits disappear. This would save the state nearly $2.5 million. A single Vermonter with an annual income up to $19,332 is currently eligible.

And even those making less who are covered under the state’s standard VScript program will see their costs rise.


http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/41169.html

Governor’s Budget Cuts Medicaid Programs

Governor Howard Dean, in his eleventh and last budget address, cut several Medicaid programs including prescription drugs, dental care and vision services. Dean told lawmakers times a tough and sacrifices had to be made.

The Dean budget for FY 2003 is $891 million in state spending, one percent more than the state expects to spend this fiscal year but nearly 3% less than the budget passed last year ($916 million). Revenues this year are expected to be $50 million below budget. Dean wants to use the "Rainy Day" fund to cover some of the $50 million shortfall but does not want to tap that fund for FY 2003. Next year’s budget is based on revenue estimates of $893 million.

If passed as presented, Dean’s budget would:

Eliminate the VScript Expanded Program.

Reduce the Vermont Health Access Plan pharmacy benefit.

Increase the co-pay up to $750/year for medicines under both the VScript and VHAP pharmacy programs. (Those eligible now pay only a few dollars for each filled prescription).

Eliminate the Medicaid dentures, chiropractic and podiatry programs.

Reduce the adult dental programs (cover pain and suffering only, not preventative care).

Add a 50% co-pay to adult vision programs.

Add a $250 co-pay per admission to VHAP inpatient hospital benefit.

Reduce the hospital outpatient payment by 10%.

Establish a hospital outpatient co-pay of $25.

These cuts would save about $27 million, $11 million in state money. Few advocates for the elderly are happy with the budget and have vowed to restore the money lost to these programs. A coalition of over a dozen advocacy groups held a rally and press conference at the Capitol building to denounce the budget cuts.

http://vnavt.com/vahhavoicewinter2002.htm

Progressives call for higher taxes for rich
January 25, 2002

By JACK HOFFMAN

Vermont Press Bureau

MONTPELIER — Vermont Progressives renewed their call Thursday for higher taxes on the wealthy in order to avoid some of the budget cuts that Gov. Howard Dean outlined earlier this week.

The Progressives, with support of a couple dozen Democrats and one Republican, proposed two new income tax surcharges. Taxes would go up 12.5 percent on taxable income between $43,000 and $158,000. On taxable income above $158,000, taxes would be increased 25 percent.

Taxable income is the amount left after personal exemptions and deductions have been subtracted from wages, business earnings and other types of income.

Currently, Vermont’s highest income tax rate is 9.5 percent. That is the rate paid on taxable income above $283,000. Under the plan the Progressives proposed Thursday, the highest Vermont tax rate would be 11.88 percent.

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/41293.html


Senate adds money to budget, angers Dean
May 9, 2002

By ROSS SNEYD The Associated Press

MONTPELIER — Senators passed a 2003 state budget Wednesday that the governor made clear he would veto if it ever reached his desk.

Just hours after an angry Gov. Howard Dean leveled a series of charges about how irresponsible he believed the Senate, controlled by his fellow Democrats, was being, senators did precisely what he warned them not to do.

They restored money to a pharmaceutical assistance program that he had slated for elimination, redirected some money to cities and towns to help pay for education, and passed the budget by a 21-8 roll-call vote

http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/46513.html

Now lets re-evaluate Vermont and WHO is responsible for the continued existance of STATE programs like VHAP, and so on, not Dean who threated to slash them, but the legislators who DID NOT allow Dean to have his way.
I am disabled, and made A LOT MORE than 150 percent over the poverty level in Florida, was eliglble for medicaid immediately, and when my time came, collected a good sum in both SSI and SSDI back payments when determined to be disabled.

I have gone through the process, and just to see if I would do better in another state, tried Vermont WHILE DEAN WAS GOVERNOR.

Exactly the same results.

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. You are flat out wrong
I made under 150% of poverty last year (as an adult male) and I do not qualify for Medicaid in Ohio. Also my mom, who is disabled, didn't qualify for Medicaid without a massive spenddown (to less than $400 a month after rent) except through a special program to keep people out of nursing homes. I delt with this for over 5 months in regards my mother. I know exactly, precisely, and utterly what I am talking about here. She wouldn't be covered now but for the fact that I called a political favor to get her stuff looked at and have this program suggested. In short you are bald faced, 180 degrees, gold carat, wrong. And BTW I tricked you. Vermont covers kids upto 300% poverty. So again you are wrong.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. You must also account for many other factors
even in Vermont. Things that you own outright, like autos, housing, or if you are living with someone and they are paying part of your expenses, and on and on.

You still have not accounted for the findings of Dean's very own comission, ordered by him, its members selected by him, and stating that the state of affairs of healthcare availability in Vermont was reaching a critical state and threatening to completely cause a collapse of Vermont's ability to pay for all other government programs.

I have read the entire report, and it states that the VT healthcare system was in a catastrophic state during Dean's tenure.
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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. You were reading pure political posturing
That's what I call it when all the lawmakers are fighting for their pet issues and trying to get more money and funding for what they are close to. The health care system here had a couple of big issues that needed to be addressed, and Dean did what he could to address them. The first one was the cost of prescription drugs. Doctors were too often prescribing more expensive medication when generic cheaper alternatives were available. This was going on in part from drug companies running all those commercials they do and influencing patients and part of it was from drug companies essentially bribing doctors with "gifts" to get their expensive medication prescribed instead of generics. This is why Dean made it a law that every "gift" drug companies give to doctors and hospitals over the value of $20 must be reported. He also tried to put a stipulation on medications that if a generic equivalent was available the doctors had to prescribe it and the only way they could prescribe the name brand drugs were if the patient chose to pay for it out of pocket. The other issue was from people going to the Emergency room to be treated for non-emergency problems.

Periodically issues come up in ANY program that is going to need to be addressed. That's normal. However, to claim that Dean has done nothing and deny all that he accomplished in such a fashion as that "bastion of truthfulness" (note the sarcasm here) that I keep seeing posting long delusional diatribes is not only dishonest, but disgusting.

About Vermont's Medicaid...we don't have to play by federal rules because Dean was given a waiver so he could do all he did. You also can't apply online for state services in Vermont. I think you can download forms (which might be federal forms) but you can only actually apply and find out whether or not you are eligible by going into an office and meeting with a worker. And anyone who is disabled here automatically qualifies, too.

Suffice to say...someone on this thread is NOT telling the truth.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. Both of the following can't be true
If you believe Nick, then Dean spent not one dime of VT money on this program. Then VT can't be going bankrupt because of it. One of if not both of those statements are lies. It is utterly impossibe to bankrupt VT spending federal money.

And as to your other point. I have a $400 car, that is it. My parents had a $3500 car at the time. We both rent. (that is what after rent referred to in their case). Again, in VT we both would have qualified no problem. In Ohio, I don't at all and my mom only due to a special program for keeping her out of a home.
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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. For those who couldn't tell the truth if their life depended on it...
My family has been benefiting from what Dean has done in Vermont for years. When my 3 year old was born, we got a hospital visit and then a home visit. My baby got books for me to read to her and I learned about nutrition, health care and immunization information, play groups, child care information, was told about all the programs in my community that could help me if I needed it. I put it all in a big binder and still use the info when I have a question or am looking for services for myself or others.

My family also has Dean's insurance plan. Our family gets great care that we wouldn't otherwise qualify for if it weren't for Howard Dean. I really resent reading the nonsense you've posted. I just hope that people are intelligent enough to recognize you for what you are, and that's definitely NOT someone trying to share honest and truthful information to the people on this site. Your behavior is beneath contempt and not at all consistent with the ideals demonstrated by the population of this forum. You should be ashamed of yourself for spreading such garbage.
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. I live in NC...
and I got all that, too. Twelve years ago, with my first born. I am not sure whether it was a state or federal program that provided the info, just know that I got it. Oh and a lactation consultant, too.

You know, weirdly enough, I had this picture of you being a man.

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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. The screen name is a joke
I sing karaoke and have a kind of deep voice.

It's far more organized than getting stuff in the hospital. It continues on for as long as you need someone to talk to and basically advocate for you.
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #15
33. I'm in Ohio, and WE don't get hospital or home visits...
I believe it's true that two common factors that most prison inmates share are 1) they didn't get an adequate education and 2) they were neglected or abused as children.

Dean has said the following:

Prisons are the most expensive and least effective of social programs. Most inmates are undereducated and have been neglected or abused. Fully funding educational programs and making home and hospital visits provide 1) better education and 2) a way to get parents the tools they need to make good parenting decisions.

This isn't just a "pro-child" stance, it works toward decreasing the number of adults who wind up in prison.
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ProfessorPlum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. YOU WIN the hyperbole award for today. That's the second win for you!!
"Not one person benefited from ANYTHING Dean did regarding healthcare in Vermont."

Come on - that stretches ever your vapor-thin credibility to the breaking point.

What else does your crystal ball say?

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Nazgul35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. goes to show how good Nick is...
at methods....even though he says he had three college courses on research design....that's a very bad hypothesis nick....

And by the way, research design means sitting around talking about the theory of science...not studying actual research methods, like CLRM, Maximum Likelihood and Bayesian statictics...

I also suggest that you...the lover of MOE, talk about the recent poll in NH that has your boy down by 21% points...since you love polls so much....or are you going to argue that this is because Kerry hasn't done anything for several months...cause if you are, then you should agree that all polls are at this point is name recognition, something you've poopooed time and time again....

The problems with this particular poster are many, but here are just a few of the beauties:

1) He knows enough about statistics to be dangerous...when questioned about statistical tests he usually goes into hyperbola...

2) He is notorious for selective editing and manipulation of the quotes and articles he uses on this site...and not very selective about where he gets his info from...many times it's a right wing paper or an opinion piece...

3) He isn't very consistant in his arguments...he doesn't hold up the same qualifications towards others as he does to Dean...polls are especially his forte...he has yet to mention the latest Zogby poll that puts Dean 21% ahead of Kerry in NH....well beyond the MOE Nick...

4) One would hope that someone who has so much time and energy would be spending it on Bush, instead of feeding on our own....many here act as if Dean is the worst thing for the Democratic Party since...wow, since ever and it would be a complete disaster if he were the party nominee...like Dean is just hiding the fact that he'll make Bush look like Mother Teresa....

I would strongly advise that anyone new here take Nick with a grain of salt...someone, womewhere pissed in his cornflakes and he has been on a jihad against Dean ever since....I find much of what many here say offensive, but am mature enough to not blame the candidate, or assume that supporters of other dems are zombies or idiots....how can I? We have a wonderful field of candidates who are going to beat Bush like an overstuffed pinata....and I will fight just as hard for whomever gets the nomination...

Lastly, don't forget that there is not repugs detector at the door here...and that many people who claim to be one thing have every possibility to be another....
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renie408 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #7
21. It seems to me...
that the most important statement made here is this:

>>I have defied Dean supporters to come up with VERMONT STATE legialtion initiated or passed by Dean regarding such medical insurance but they can find none. Everything mde available to children in Vemront was made available under a bill initially written by John Kerry, and passed over to a bipartisan comittee where it became the Kennedy Kerry Act of 1996. Dean then utilized a subchapter 1115 exemption to allow him to utilize unspent federal funds from other ares such as transportation to place into the health care programs.<<

If Nick is a liar, then it also seems to me that it would be easy to provide the name of the legislation initiated by Dean that allowed for the statistics for which he is taking credit. I have no clue whether he is telling the truth or not, I just don't know enough about insurance in Vermont. But it is easy to call somebody a liar, let's see your proof.

Gee, haven't I heard that somewhere before???
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. My intrepretation of Nick's post - in a nutshell - is
that Vermonters would have received the same benefits if snoopy the dog had been governor. It was federally mandated. I, too, would like to know which part Dean is taking credit for.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. I live in Ohio
and last I checked we didn't leave the union. And I know that in VT I would have Medicare and here I don't. I know how much money I make. I know it as a percentage of the poverty level. I applied here and don't have it. I have no assets to speak of. I live alone. No one claims me on his or her taxes. Again in VT I would be on Medicaid. Here I am not. You tell me how that is the federal governments doing.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Here you go
Edited on Thu Aug-28-03 02:04 PM by dsc
BTW I provided this less than 20 minutes after signing on today. It wasn't a Vermont law but a waiver applied for by Vermont and given to them by the Federal Government. VT came up with the plan, ponied up at least 37% of the money (I am unsure if they got the optional stuff matched or not) and spent the money. This also explains who is and isn't covered under VT Medicaid. BTW I was wrong on one thing. For adults it is 185% of the poverty rate not 150%. Sorry about that. Here is the link.

www.leg.state.vt.us/jfo/Introduction%2520to%2520Medicaid.ppt+Vermont+Medicaid+law&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

www.leg.state.vt.us/jfo/Introduction%2520to%2520Medicaid.ppt+Vermont+Medicaid+law&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Please try my links if you can read powerpoint presentations. I suspect that is what those links (they are the same) will lead you to. I can't read powerpoint and had clicked to go to html. When I cut and pasted the linke this appeared. I can't use those links. If they don't work let me know and I will see what, if anything, I can do.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. did anyone (ie the person who asked for these)
try the links to see if they worked? I would like to know if they did.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. Um, Dude?
http://www.chausa.org/PUBS/PUBSART.ASP?ISSUE=HP9410&ARTICLE=L

It is called the Vermont Health Care Act of 1992. The blurb in this report should make you happy as it doesn't paint a rosy picture of Dean but clearly shows it was Vermont's actions that created the current health care/insurance situation in Vermont. This may well have been aided by actions in Washington, that I won't deny as the following link does offer proof that the Clinton administration was interested in offering states the chance to be incubators of reform.

http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/1995pres/950731b.html

Secretary Shalala stated, "Gov. Howard Dean should be commended for his leadership in developing this plan to expand coverage to uninsured Vermonters. This demonstration is an example of the administration's commitment to providing states the flexibility they need to design health care systems that improve access and quality of care for their citizens."



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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 01:07 AM
Response to Reply #7
31. Now wait just a minute there...
If that were true, every child in America would be covered. They're not. It's because of the way CHIP was enacted in Vermont that made the difference. I don't know who, what, where, why it happened in Vermont, but Dean had the good sense to sign it into law, at the very least.

In addition, the Welcome Baby program, or whatever it's called, is excellent. It's the perfect way to meet with the people and provide whatever service they need to create a stable family environment. From what I understand, it's not just child services, it's all services available to the mom AND the dad to help them with education or whatever they might need.

It's not necessary to knock good programs that have proven to work. I happen to think Dean would be an adequate President, it's just that John Kerry would be 10 times better. He truly has the values, record and policies Dean people are looking for. They'll figure it out quicker without bashing posts like yours.
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Kanola Donating Member (392 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. I am a CPS Social Worker
and Dean is the first candidate to even bring up social services that I have heard from (if there are others please let me know). I don't think Dean's plan of meeting every mom in the delivery room and following there case for years would translate here in CA, but at least he acknowledges Social Services.
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KaraokeKarlton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. It's a really great and cheap program
You get a really quick visit in the hospital after you've rested from giving birth. A nurse brings you a nice canvas bag with a big hard covered children's book filled with all kinds of samples, magazines, information on different things, lists of community resources. After giving you this bag they ask if you'd like to have a nurse come visit you at home to check in and answer any questions you have after going home, and give you more information. Just about everyone says yes and give their phone number. After you've been home for a little while, a nurse calls you and schedules a time to come visit. The nurse weighs and measures your baby, talks about immunizations, nutrition, asks if you need help obtaining birth control...they cover everything. All the services are already there in the community, and Success By Six has organized them into a sort of community coalition that works together in a big advocacy network for new parents to make sure they get whatever help they need to raise happy and healthy children. Every state should do this, it's wonderful, simple and inexpensive!
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
14. I'm Glad We Have At Least Two Candidates That Give A Damn About Kids
Increase the Child Tax Credit: This proposal made the child tax credit partially refundable so that the majority of low-income working families can double the credit from $500 to $1,000. An additional 16 million families will now benefit from this credit.

Job Training and Opportunity: John Kerry championed federal funding for the YouthBuild program. YouthBuild helps at-risk youth obtain an education and take responsibility for their lives and their communities. Over the past decade, more than 20,000 YouthBuild students have built more than 7,000 housing units in their neighborhoods. Eighty-five percent of the students who complete the YouthBuild program either secure a job or go on to post-secondary education.

Expand Access to Health Care: Under Kerry's Health Care plan, all children would be automatically covered.

Early Education for All: Again and again, Kerry has supported increases in quality early childhood programs like Head Start and child care. His Early Learning Opportunities Act, which became law in 2000, helps families by providing funding to expand and coordinate early childhood development efforts. He believes we should continue to expand quality programs so that children can get off to a good start.

Provide More Quality After School Programs: John Kerry believes after-school programs are a cost effective way to reduce crime and help kids. 75 percent of women with school-aged children are in the workforce, yet high-quality, affordable childcare after-school is hard to come by.

Enforce Child Support: More than half of the children born in the 1990s will spend some of their childhood in a single-parent family. Although child support collection rates are improving, they are still too low. That is why John Kerry backs legislation to ensure that children receive the child support money they are owed and deserve.

Enforce and Improve Gun Safety: John Kerry is greatly concerned by the number of children who are killed or injured by handgun violence. To protect children from the accidental firing of a weapon, he has introduced legislation that would set minimum safety standards for gun locks.

Expand Substance Abuse Treatment: More than two-thirds of the parents involved in the child welfare system need substance abuse treatment, but over-burdened agencies can provide treatment services for only less than one-third of them. Children whose families do not get appropriate treatment are more likely to remain in foster care longer and to reenter foster care after being returned home, costing taxpayers far more than the cost of good treatment. Senator Kerry is a strong supporter of the Child Protection/Alcohol and Drug Partnership Act and believes that addressing the link between child abuse and neglect and substance abuse by parents is crucial.

Expanding Access to Quality Child Care: Making child care more affordable and available to families is one of John Kerry’s top legislative priorities. Kerry has introduced legislation to increase child care funding by $11.25 billion over the next five years.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-29-03 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #14
32. Three... check this out
Edwards has some great plans too. A couple of things stood out when I was looking for the info on the afterschool program they started. There's some things in here that recognize certain realities for low-income families.

Helping Victims of Domestic and Sexual Violence. In 2002, Edwards introduced the Women in Trauma Act, which would focus new federal efforts on improving mental health and substance abuse services for women affected by domestic or sexual violence. Edwards also introduced the Counseling in Shelters Act to provide federal funding to enable shelters and other community-based providers to hire trained mental health and substance abuse counselors to help victims.

Supporting Equitable Coverage of Contraceptives. In March 2003, Edwards voted to require equitable coverage of contraceptives.

Assisting Parents Get Time with Their Children. Senator Edwards has proposed a $2,500 family leave tax credit, phased in over a period of years, that will effectively provide paid leave without hurting businesses.

Doubling Support for Elder Care. Edwards would help the growing number of working parents who are responsible for their own parents' or spouses' care by doubling federal support for respite care and adult day care.

Offering High-Quality Afterschool Programs Edwards believes that with more and more parents working, children need quality afterschool programs to help them learn more and stay out of trouble.

Encouraging Responsibility from Dads. While moms on welfare are required to work, and they get help in finding it, dads have neither help nor the requirement. In order to give fathers better means to support their children and be valued members of their family and their community, we should require fathers to work, give them help finding work, and make sure child support goes to the parent, and not the government.

Lower-Cost Prescriptions For All Seniors Through Medicare. Senator Edwards believes that we need an affordable prescription benefit for senior citizens and disabled Medicare beneficiaries. Edwards strongly opposes proposals to require seniors to give up their traditional Medicare and go into an HMO in order to get drug benefits.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
22. Who would you rather hear about--Bush or Dean?
Lets just hope it continues to be Dean.

This is our ace in the hole, don't you people get it?
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