This is some of the crap the mainstream press has written about Kerry

and which largley hasn't been posted by any Dean supporter.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh021003.shtml

"BEAM: What is it about John Kerry that makes people cringe? Is it the plastic surgery to his lantern jaw, which he claims was medically necessary? The Super-8 movies he filmed of himself in action in Vietnam? The “JFK” monogram he wore on his oxford shirts at St. Paul’s prep school? His shallow, manipulative demagoguery over the “missing” POWs? Or his belated admission that the medals he jettisoned in a famous 1971 antiwar protest were not his own? Kerry has said that he will decide whether to run for president early next year. There is plenty of logic to a Kerry campaign…Nominal front-runner Al Gore has all the charisma of—of a John Kerry! And our junior senator, who whines constantly about money, has a bank in the back room: His second wife, heiress/philanthropist Teresa Heinz, is worth an estimated $800 million. "

For the record some of the charges in this have been posted but to my knowledge not this particular article. I also defended his use of JRK and his record on POW's when that came up. In addition to his use of get over it, and some other things. But I am getting fed up.

Let me be crystal clear here. Kerry partisians on this board have very little time left to clean up their acts (as exemplified by two dishonest threads in GD today and several here yesterday). There are literally dozens if not hundreds of articles about Kerry that I could link here which are every bit as sleezy and dishonest as those which Kerry supporters have chosen to post about Dean. Some, if not most Kerry partisans are honorable people but for months you have let dishonest people post shit about Dean with nary a peep. In contrast Dean partisans who have done Kerry that way have routinely been criticised by me and several other Dean supporters. If you wish to countence sewer wallowing nonsense then sewer wallowing nonsense you shall get. I watch lying leftists take down Gore in 2000 and Hell will freeze over before I let it happen to Dean. I am an ABB person. I have studeously avoided posting nonsense and lies. In return I get GD today, this forum yesterday, and day after day after day after day of dishonest threads by mostly Kerry supporters which are virtually never negatively commented on by other Kerry supporters. The one way street is about to be widened into a two way road.

KaraokeKarlton
Response to Reply #100
104. I'm not unravelling
I'm simply sharing my view that Kerry is basically nothing but a festering, oozing shit polyp.

since one has no idea of the context of that post. Just what was post 100 for example? I would like to know also if I commented at all in that thread which is impossible for me to know without a link.

and I said that it's MY view of him. I strongly oppose his desire to force my kids to do community service in order to get a high school diploma. It would harm my family. I don't like him as a candidate and frankly, the more I read of the very nonsense your first post describes, the more I dislike Kerry and the more I feel compelled to share my views about him. Lord knows I can't just stick to posting on the positive threads about Dean because Kerry's Cronies can't refrain from disrupting every damn one of them.

You represent Dean much better when you refrain from that conduct though I have also yielded to the tempation from time to time.

due to having spent 20 of the 24 hours that were Oct 9th out of my apartment either working, picking up my dad at the airport, or going to an AA meeting in the town with the airport. Had I seen it I would have commented.

after his campaign gave the moderator a BS fax. Of course Kerry supporters defended Kerry like he didn't do anything wrong at all. He lied through his teeth and smirked in the background afterwards, knowing full well he was being dishonest. It was truly disgusting.

CNN apolgized for that fax. They said their "mistake" was "unintentional" and never should have happened.

ALL the campaigns generate faxes in the pressroom during the debates, and the CNN producer who grabbed Kerry's fax and handed it to Woodruff could have easily grabbed one from the Dean campaign. Sheesh...how many of you are so naive about these matters that you believe what you want with such kneejerk fervor?

The L, the I or the E? It wasn't the fax getting through that is the issue. It is the fact that Kerry LIED during the debate by way of the fax that is the issue.

Here's the facts that back up Kerry's assertion in that fax.

Posted by Fean:


Dr. Dean said that was "silly," explaining that he had only threatened the Republican-controlled Vermont Legislature that the elderly would lose their prescription coverage if they did not pass a cigarette tax, which they eventually did.
Mr. Kerry said, "It's not silly, it's what he said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/10/politics/campaigns/10DEMS.html

"We're going to propose a combination of cuts in (health) benefits, increasing co-payments and deductibles to the extent allowed by federal law, and increasing General Fund dollars," Dean said in a recent interview.
"Medicaid now covers a certain number of benefits, and we are going to recommend to the Legislature that they not cover certain benefits," he continued. "What we are not going to do is remove anybody from the health insurance rolls."

The state's Medicaid budget has been growing steadily over the last several years, pushed both by Dean's aggressive efforts to expand the number of Vermonters who qualify for the program, as well as by the swiftly rising cost of prescription drugs and other medical treatments.

Dean and the Legislature in recent years have financed some of the Medicaid growth by turning to special revenue sources such as a cigarette tax or the proceeds of a legal settlement with tobacco makers. But those funds are reaching their limits, and will not be able to protect the state General Fund in the coming years.

http://www.rutlandherald.com/legislature/archives/healthbud.html

* Medicaid: Gov. Howard Dean proposed deep cuts in the health insurance program that serves the poor. In particular, he suggested eliminating some medical programs and increasing the amount that people must pay for their pharmaceutical assistance. The House voted to restore some of those cuts, but only by as much as a 36-cent per pack increase in the cigarette tax would fund. The Senate Appropriations has recommended to the full Senate restoring nearly all the spending because the Senate has agreed to a cigarette tax increase of 67 cents per pack. The Senate is expected to vote on the budget bill containing the Medicaid proposal Monday. Differences then would be negotiated.

http://timesargus.com/Legislature/Story/46461.html


Dean claimed in the debate that this was all about his desire to get a cigarette tax passed.
These news articles suggest the motivation was budgetary.
What is the truth?

and we made the mistake of taking her at her word. Yes I will admit that when this first broke I had listened to, not watched the debate and had assumed she had had the fax handed to her by a Kerry campaign worker which is what she said. As to the rest, at best Kerry is leaving out a whole bunch of facts, including an unambiguous statement in his state of the state directly saying that he wanted the cig tax or he would cut the programs. Yes, blm, the press lies about and spins about Democrats. The Vermont papers did so here. It was posted in that thread.

Dean made it perfectly clear to the Vermont House that in order to pay for the costs of the prescription plan for seniors they would need to pass the cigarette tax. They didn't want to do that so Dean did what he could to force them to pass the tax. If it hadn't of been passed, something would have had to been cut in order to provide the prescription benefit and Dean didn't want to have to make any cuts to services. He played hardball with the Republicans in a way they couldn't fight. Up here, if a politician were to vote against something that would take care of vulnerable populations, they will lose their next election. That's why you don't ever see Vermont lawmakers in DC voting like idiots, because we watch what they do. Kerry claimed that Dean was trying to harm seniors when the exact opposite is true. It's common knowledge here and you can bet Kerry's researchers knew that if they are any good at what they do. Kerry chose to LIE. THAT is what I take issue with.

he better watch his lyin' mouth..it's already comin' back to bite him in his Iraqi Invadin' lovin' ass.

Not that this is new to you:

Policy Bulletin

Issue 02-01 | January 2002


VERMONT MEDICAL SOCIETY ANNUAL CONVERSATION WITH THE GOVERNOR

Braving the first snowstorm of the winter, ten physicians from across Vermont met with Governor Howard Dean on December 17 to discuss current Vermont health care issues. Tim Thompson, MD, President-Elect of the Medical Society, opened the meeting by thanking Governor Dean for his administration’s health care accomplishments. Dr. Thompson led the meeting on behalf of VMS President Carolyn-Taylor-Olson, MD, who was unable to travel due to illness. Dr. Thompson relayed her sentiment that, given the precarious financial state of many private physician practices, the Governor’s support for increased Medicaid reimbursement to physicians is very much appreciated.

MEDICAID BUDGET

Governor Dean discussed his health care priorities for the coming session with the group. First on the list was addressing the revenue shortfall and its impact on the FY 2003 Medicaid budget. The Governor strongly supports a tobacco tax increase, and last year proposed a 67-cent increase to the legislature. He will not incorporate such a proposal into his ’03 budget. Instead, the administration will propose a number of cuts in medical and prescription drug benefits, with the understanding that if the legislature chooses to avoid those cuts through an increased tobacco tax, the Governor will be supportive. Dean noted the strain placed on the Medicaid budget by increasing prescription drug expenditures, and said that although he has resisted formularies for years, it is no longer possible for Vermont to control these costs without a preferred drug list.

(snip)

ANTI-TOBACCO PROGRAMS

Dr. MacDonald spoke about the importance of strong tobacco prevention and cessation programs. He asked the Governor about the success of Vermont’s anti-tobacco strategy. Dean responded that according to the latest Health Risk Behavior Survey results, tobacco use in Vermont is slowly dropping. He noted that Commissioner of Health Jan Carney, MD, has been particularly effective on tobacco control.

TOBACCO TAX INCREASE

Drs. O’Brien and Johnson asked about the revenues raised from the cigarette tax increase. Peter Van Vranken, health policy advisor to the Governor, said a tax increase would raise approximately $500,000 per year per cent increase, with some reduction in revenue over time as smoking rates fall. Governor Dean said he hoped that the cuts his administration proposes in prescription drug benefits for seniors will spur broader interest in the tax increase. He stressed that Medical Society input on this issue could have a significant impact.

Ms. Mongan explained that VMS is putting a lot of energy behind the tobacco tax increase for the coming session. VMS is working both independently and as a member of the Coalition for a Tobacco Free Vermont. Conversations between physician constituents and members of the House Ways and Means Committee, Health and Welfare Committee, and majority leadership are already underway on this issue. Dean thanked the Medical Society for its active involvement.

http://www.vtmd.org/LEG&POL/pol-bull020102.html

reasons given at different times?

Were the other articles WRONG? Did Dean get a retraction from the reporters covering the issue at the time?

That what Dean said was exactly what it was.

Dean had tried to get a cigarette tax thru the year before. The legislature wouldn't do it.

He knew that state revenues would not be enough to fund the health programs.

He gave the legislature a choice: cigarette tax, or cut the programs. It forced the legislature to do what it should have done the year before. He knew what he was doing, and he had the backing of the Vermont medical and healthcare organizations.

Smart politics. Tough politics.

This is not a good attack point for Kerry. He, better than most, knows how this stuff works in politics, it's done in the Senate all the time.

Dean told it like it was at the debates.

Dean attacks in pure black and white rhetoric, paying NO attention to those nuanced "grey" areas. Nice double standard he has set for himself.

While I do think Kerry spun hard enough to have told a lie lite he also had no reason to beleive the fax would be read at the debate. One thing though is that all Democrats have better learn this lesson debate rules tend to change on Democrats. Gore had that happen in 2000 when they used a spit screen on him and now Kerry and Dean had that happen here. The fax wars need to stop or their non use during the debates need to be put in writing .

Kerry repeatedly lies about Dean and that is part of the reason I don't like him.

until I discovered his plan to make my kids do community service as if they were juvenile delinquents. When I was offended by his position on that and posted my feelings about the issue his supporters were pretty vile towards me. Now I just don't care about being politely quiet about their candidate. I can't stand him and say so. Most of the time it's in response to threads using the lies Kerry likes to use about Dean. I know how you feel about it and respect your right to post as you choose. At the same time I reserve my right to say what I think of Kerry. It's quite clear it's my opinion, and I certainly don't deny my disdain for him. I think people understand that when they read what I write. It's pretty obvious.

Wow. Let me give you Kerry's take on the community service program.

"As President, John Kerry will ensure that every high school student in America does community service as a requirement for graduation. John Kerry understands that young people have many obligations and recognizes that a service requirement should not be onerous or unrealistic for students to meet. Maryland and numerous school districts around the country already have such a requirement and have had great results. Knowledge of the rights and responsibilities of citizenship - including the duty to serve your community - are as important to American adults as knowing how to read and do math. Combined with a curriculum that teaches students about democracy, citizenship and civic participation, this high school service requirement will be a rite of passage for every young person in the country. States would design service programs that meet their community and educational needs." (www.johnkerry.com)

The program is certainly not directed at treating your kids as delinquents. It's a program which is meant to give the youth of our nation a valuable experiance in community service and civic duty, and I don't see how that's a bad thing. I think it's terribly hypocritical of you to claim that Kerry supporters have been vile to you, when you certainly have been vile yourself. "Shit polyp" comes to mind. It's fine for you to criticize, but do so in a respectful, knowledgeable manner and don't run around calling people shit and vile and screaming about how terrible they are. If you're going to say something, it ought to be logical and well-researched and thought out. Don't go around criticizing Kerry's "Lies" when you flat out ignore Dean's. What lies, you may ask? How about the one where Clark was a republican until he entered the race. Come on.

Peepers

It is NOT okay to force anyone to do any kind of work against their will and without compensation. Community service is something used for punishing petty criminals and making them pay their debt to society for not following the rules. It's punitive to the individual who has to do it, but helpful to society. If it's okay to require children to do community service in order to get a high school diploma, then why the hell isn't it okay to require welfare recipients to do coummunity service in order to receive benefits? Kids aren't allowed to vote and already have enough regulations, laws, demands and expectations placed upon them that they have absolutely no power over. Enough is enough.

As for the whole Clark thing, I honestly got the same impression Dean did when I saw Clark singing the praises of Bush and his cronies during that fund raising speech. Dean probably should have used different words in his comments, but having the concerns he does is absolutely justified.

It's adults who failed to adequately learn shared responsibility who consider it punitive.

"enriching"? Then you must support forcing welfare recipients to work for their foodstamps, because it will "enrich" their life, regardless of how much of a burden or hardship doing that "community service" would be.

:eyes:

supporter and a Vermonter. I'm embarassed that you are too. I find your anti-Kerry posts nothing short of despicable, and your Dean posts too often veer into abject fawning. This by means indicates that I'm any happier with some of the more loathsome anti-Dean threads posted by Kerry supporters. I call them on it, and I have no problem calling you on the same crap. There is no excuse for calling Kerry the kind of names you've been tossing out. I've given up hoping that you'll control yourself, but sure wish you could see what a poor representative you are for Dean.

Posts about Dean and I can see why she gets upset with kerry.

Karlton is being honest in her feelings! Big Deal!

YOu represent Dean well, Karlton!

I'll stop there....

:toast:

keep it coming... there's gotta be more than this, no?

and frankly I am tired of seeing Safire articles about Dean, Weekly Standard pieces about Dean, National Review pieces about Dean, Counterpoint pieces about Dean, and on and on it goes.

:(

You think I became pissed off at Dean ("Bushlite") and his supporters in a vacuum? They attacked Kerry like this for almost a year now.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Do you see me on the overthetop threads?

I stick to exposing the part of Dean that should be too far to the right for Democrats. No different than when people post here about Lieberman or Zell Miller. That's fair game for those of us on the left in the political arena.

And actually, there are plenty of current Dean supporters who have posted about Kerry's wife using child slaves, that he is BFEE and Bush's partner.

criticise any Kerry supporter for anything he or she has posted or typed about Dean not a single solitary time. I am willing to conceed that I missed a few times that you may have actually done so but I find it very hard to believe that I have missed anything like the dozens of times I myself have done that with Dean supporters.

are going to be overthetop slugfests.

which is my point. Expecially since you have no compunction whatsoever calling Dean supporters out. It is way beyond time for Kerry supporters to reign in their mad dogs. Our mad dogs have been almost all banned (and in one case I was one of the alerters so I probably helped get the person banned though I didn't want to). Again, there are literally dozens of sleezy, dishonest hit pieces out there for the posting. I think, by now, you should understand that when I wish to find something I generally can. I don't know how long I will wait to do this but it isn't that long. This stuff is on my last nerve and since the only thing DU now lets us do is respond on these threads which bumps them up I feel I am out of decent options.

a little clearer these days.

I remember exactly what went down before. There is a familiar pattern developing once again. You'll find it right under your nose if you're as keen as I think you are.

I not once but twice took a Dean supporter to task for the fax issue. While I am sure we disagree on the degree to which that fax spins Dean's record, I said clearly that the rules were unfairly changed to the detriment of both Kerry and Dean, and that the fax is not a full lie. I also said that I thought the poster better represented Dean when she stuck to her positive posts on him.

let's say that there are some eerie similarities between some parties we both know now and from before.

which is what I now gather then that is too bad. I have no way of knowing that. I admit to being tired as it is late here so I was slow on the uptake.

I respond to honest criticism. If a thread is there just to trash, I don't open it. How often do Dean supporters go out of their way to defend Kerry. Rarely. Kucinich supporters have been better at this. When Dean starts to respond to honest criticism and stop acting like all criticism is attacking. The real attacks will be more apparent and ignored. How many Dean supporters came back to the board and apologized for trashing Kerry on the "fax" issue?

I have nothing to apologize for. And frankly... there are several Dean supporters, DSC being a stand out example, who do quite a good job at responding to honest criticism. I don't blame DSC for losing his cool.

when you won't admonish other Dean supporters? Did you rush to Kerry's defense that night? I am not here to defend Dean. If I was in a conversation with someone who was unfair I would defend him, but otherwise I'm here for my own interests. Sometimes I defend Clark. I like him. I never open threads that trash him. The only time I open Dean threads is if I want to read good defenses of kerry because all threads that start criticizing Dean have Kerry attacks in them.

Defend Dean? As for me defending Kerry... if I see something really stupid I HAVE stepped in before. I wasn't even around the night of the debate to get in the middle of the fax contraversy.
All I was saying is that I think it was unfair of you to say that the policy issues being raised against Dean aren't being addressed.

Dean supporters for being mean spirited parisians are responsible for policing their own. If you are going to be the net nannies of Dean supporters then you need to be the net nannies of your candidate's supporters. I have no idea if you routinely do that or not but several Kerry supporters do. If you are going to decry Dean threads on minute then you need to do so with Kerry threads the next.

I have repeatedly defended Kerry. I defended Kerry on the POW issue, on the get over it comment (in re the 2000 election), the Skull and Bones stuff, I just did here on the fax, on his wife being attacked, on the scurilous piece about him being Jewish, about the scurulous piece about his divorce (I went so far as to alert on that one), and on several other occasions. In short, you are either woefully misinformed or outright dishonest when you say How often do Dean supporters go out of their way to defend Kerry. Rarely.

On edit, I would be willing to bet I defended Kerry in my latest 91 posts than you have defended Dean in your posts. Care to take me up on that?

I myself have been called a shill for Kerry and un-american (different blog) for my defense of Kerry. You have to realize that people are being hurt on both sides of this and posting that crap at the top does not further the cause of our party.

did you even read it? debunks the article. If you haven't heard of the Daily Howler I can't recommend it highly enough. It has nothing at all to do with Dean but is a man who writes on our hopeless media. It will provide many hours of thought provoking reading. My point is that it doesn't help but I am very tired of the one way street here. Since I can't post threads about threads anymore I am left with three choices, one let scurillous attacks go unremarked, two bump said scurillous attacks when I answer, or three fight fire with fire. I am beginning to get to the point where I am going to choose three.

I just don't agree with your tactics for making your point. I don't post crap on Dean to prove that crap on Kerry is unfair. My 2 year old bites, but I don't bite him to show him it hurts.

I have tried just about everything else I can think of. Is it good? No. But I am frustrated beyond belief. If this stuff doesn't stop no one here will want to vote for any of our candidates. If this gets them to stop then great.

I do not like Dean and it is hard to discuss his problems because people get defensive. Some give links, but many just trash. I want answers because if he is the candidate I will have to defend him to people. You don't like Kerry attacking Dean and I hate the way Dean says "Washington insiders". It infers something inaccurate about Kerry's record. Dean uses it vaguely enough to have plausible deniability, but most people assume he is referring to Kerry.

I think there are a few people that I may start to ignore, but sometimes you want to know the bad things people are saying so you can defend against it.

Maybe at least we can note that off all the Kerry and Dean people here, you and I have good intentions.

Dean supporters going out of their way to object to baseless or offensive attacks on Kerry. I don't see Kerry supporters reciprocating in kind. I personally make many positive remarks about Kerry and defend him frequently. Good thing I don't do it becauxe I want appreciation from the Kerry supporters. Just yesterday I posted something in defense of Kerry and blm responded to my comment with a negative remark about Dean.

Don't keep it a secret.

produced by lying sacks of feces. Unlike you I don't consider Safire an honest source worthy of being sited.

Somehow when liberals dig up dirt on their own it is not as effective as it might be if it were on the opposition. I realize there is no perfect human being therefore we are not going tohave a perfect candidate. The Republicans have this activity of dirt-digin down to a science. They are selective --only look for something Joe Six Pack can grab in a soundbite. As for the Media they operate at the high school clique level. They have to "like" you. Likeablity is more important to them than genuine respect or ability to do job.
When the Media trashes him you know where they are coming from. Look who they just put is as Goveor of California with hours of
coverage(free advertising). Somehow our candidtes need to learn to sccinctly spell out difference without attacking. It seems to me a cadidate could say My plan does this this this and this. Now some of the other candidates do not provide thus and so .Please listend carefully for differences.Example Gephardt could emphasze my health plan will cover every American young annd old--others cover only chilren and some only part of the population initially.Give the audience clues to look for but you have not even called the name of one opponent. I only used Gephardt as an example. I support sonoe else. -Nothing is accomplished by attacking each other when you are of the same party.

You will look long and hard to see attack posts by me about candidates. Even here I linked to a site which debunks the article. But I am about tired of this constant crap by the supporters of this candidate. I did try something else yesterday but that is against the rules. I am tired of bumping these posts while defending Dean. I honestly don't know whatelse to do. I am very open to suggestions. And BTW I do think Gephardt has the best health care plan even though I prefer Dean as a candidate. It mystifies me why Gephardt's supporters here haven't posted more on it.

Dean's message is to get involved

This past Monday I was part of a rally for presidential candidate Howard Dean, along with nearly a thousand other UNH students, staff, faculty and community members. Governor Dean's fiery speech brought down the house, and the crowd at the MUB was full of energy, with over one hundred supporters standing in the Food Court after the Granite Room filled to capacity. It was thrilling to see so many friends, peers and colleagues standing together, inspired by Dean's message.

But there was an odd twist. While we held our rally, several students supporting John Kerry's campaign dressed one of their own up as a waffle, trying to smear Dr. Dean as a "waffler" on issues.

Personally I think it's great to see Wildcats getting involved in politics, regardless of which candidate they support. But the contrast between our grassroots rally and their waffle costume pretty summed up the differences between our candidates: The Dean rally was about building a hopeful, people-powered campaign. Kerry's waffle was a negative attack, used solely to tear someone else down.

Dean's success in Vermont- with near-universal health care, more than 40,000 new jobs, over a million acres of natural land protected and equal rights for all Vermonters- speaks for itself. When I asked the waffle guy why he supported Kerry, he literally couldn't give me a single reason.

Dean's message to Americans is to get involved, to be proud of themselves. Kerry's waffle belittles people for thinking that we can make a difference, and says that we should let him decide how to get involved because we're too stupid to make up our own minds.

Our supporters stood up and cheered when Governor Dean spoke about bringing Americans together despite our differences in race, gender and class. The Kerry wafflers laughed out loud at us.

I think UNH students should support whomever they think is the best candidate. But as long as we're making up our minds, I'll remember that while Howard Dean's supporters offered me friendship, inspiration and a chance to help make America great again, John Kerry's people offered me waffles and attitude.

Sonya Carlson, Grad Student in Zoology
http://www.tnh.unh.edu/opinion/dmitgi.html

and I'm sure in 10 or 20 years he will be alot better at detecting bullshit.

it's the truth.

seeing as they find it more productive to organize and do something positive than it is to dress up as a waffle and make fun of people trying to make a difference.

Maybe jI should turn the sensitivity control down... especially if Dean gets the nomination...

Take off the rose colored glasses.

But as long as we're making up our minds, I'll remember that while Howard Dean's supporters offered me friendship, inspiration and a chance to help make America great again, John Kerry's people offered me waffles and attitude.

They offer friendship because you agree with them. If you were a Kerry supporter, Dean would offer a message that you are "Bush-lite" Washington insider who should get out of the way. You would feel like the enemy and be told that you are either a centrist sell-out or not centrist enough to appeal to gun-lovers. Then they would explain that you are not a grassroots liberal. You would feel like crap and the waffle costume would be silly in comparison.

We as a party will never succeed while we continue to be exclusionary. I do not like Howard Dean or his politics. His rhetoric is nice, but I recognize that since I am not a formerly disaffected Dem, He is not talking to me. I do not like the way he puts down those who have been loyal Dems. I don't like the way he trashes the party. I was taught that you don't air you families dirty laundry. He began his campaign by doing this. The others have had to do this just to not get run over in his zeal. I would like them to stop, but I fear that the media will not do their homework on the candidates and it is at a point where the candidates have to expose each others records.

It is good though for them to talk about each others positions. Kerry has had to defend his Iraq war vote. Dean should defend his record. And I wish the personal attacks would stop.

and appreciate all of your effort on behalf of Dean, I think there is a better way to make your point, dsc. We shouldn't be repeating the RW talking points about Kerry any more than they should about Dean.

Although you are correct that DU seems to get worse every day.